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Brixton Space - Tapas Cafe/Bar on Brixton Water Lane

Badgers

Badgers

Mr Big Shrimp!
R.I.P.
This is a new place at 30 Brixton Water Lane that replaces 'Cookies Cafe Au Lait' and looks really great inside.

BrixtonSpace_3.jpg


Was mentioned in the Brixton Chitter Chatter thread but thought a new thread might be in order. Main reason for the thread is that they have got problems with their license application after a neighbour complained to the council. It is going to 'consultation' and I would guess that eventually a license will be granted but seems a real shame to me. Brixton Space is opposite the Hootananny pub and in a location that has some residential property nearby.

The objections to them having a license is that it will cause noise and drunken behaviour :confused:

It is a really nice little Tapas Cafe/Bar in a row of shops and you would think that with the success of Brazas place around the corner the locals would welcome this opening up. What seems to have happened is that one person does not want it and following this another four people have objected. I talked to the couple that run the place last night and they said they have more emails of support than objections but might be nice if others who are interested sent an email over to licensing@lambeth.gov.uk

Tonight (Thursday 12th of May) is their opening night so I am going to pop along. At this time those that want to drink alcohol will have to bring their own. Will take some photos and add to this thread tomorrow :)
 
i'm selfishly in favour of restaurants not having licences and having BYO cos i'm tight and resent having to spend twice or more than the retail price on a bottle of wine.
it's a bit of a ridiculous objection though - surely BYO would encourage more 'noise and drunken behaviour' (if indeed drinking in a restaurant actually does) as customers will drink more?
 
Orang Utan said:
i'm selfishly in favour of restaurants not having licences and having BYO cos i'm tight and resent having to spend twice or more than the retail price on a bottle of wine.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, but you could get a takeaway :D

Orang Utan said:
it's a bit of a ridiculous objection though - surely BYO would encourage more 'noise and drunken behaviour' (if indeed drinking in a restaurant actually does) as customers will drink more?
Click to expand...

The whole objection is pretty lame. The booze thing aside it is a small cafe/bar, probably seats 20 people. They will be playing music as almost every cafe/bar in the UK does and it is small enough that playing music too loud would put off customers.
 
it's a bit of a ridiculous objection though - surely BYO would encourage more 'noise and drunken behaviour' (if indeed drinking in a restaurant actually does) as customers will drink more?[/QUOTE]

I know. Does marked up booze have a magical ability not to render people loud or drunken? And only the stuff bought from the shop a couple of doors down makes people annoying and disruptive? There's no logic.

And frankly, if people want to get annoyed about something in Brixton Water Lane, they could get Montego Bay to do something about their tatty awnings and someone cut that massive hedge at the bus stop. Harumph!
 
Yup looks cool inside, is it just 1 floor or is there a basement too? only say that because i saw they were having a film night soon.

The objections are probably more aimed at the Hoot, any further licensing being viewed as more noise. What are there licensing hours, it doesn't say in their plea for support???

I too like BYO , it's getting to the point where lager is 4x more expensive in a pub.
 
TBF they should be entitled to object if they have a concern. It is then up to the applicant to show in their operating plan (which has to be submitted as part of a licence application) how it will deal with the concerns raised by objectors. The licencing team then decide whether the objections are valid, and if they are valid whether the applicant's operating plan deals satisfactorily with the issues raised.

Objecting to a licence is not just about making sure they do not get one at all but also about negotiating on operational conditions - e.g. operating hours, sound proofing (particularly important if you live upstairs and they plan to have music into the night which Cafe au Lait did not), where smoking areas are, etc.. If neighbours don't deal with concerns at this stage they then have to implement a full licence review at a later stage to deal with the most minor problems.

I'll be surprised if they don't get the licence, albeit with some conditions attached. If they don't it should not be viewed as a disaster since Khan's does very well without a licence. I'm not sure that a barrage of emails of support would make much difference (although it surely won't hurt) since the objectors concerns will still have to be dealt with in the same way.

(Someone who knows more might be able to point out if I am confusing different types of licence?)

Might wander up (with a bottle) tonight.
 
Rushy said:
TBF they should be entitled to object if they have a concern. It is then up to the applicant to show in their operating plan (which has to be submitted as part of a licence application) how it will deal with the concerns raised by objectors. The licencing team then decide whether the objections are valid, and if they are valid whether the applicant's operating plan deals satisfactorily with the issues raised.

Objecting to a licence is not just about making sure they do not get one at all but also about negotiating on operational conditions - e.g. operating hours, sound proofing (particularly important if you live upstairs and they plan to have music into the night which Cafe au Lait did not), where smoking areas are, etc.. If neighbours don't deal with concerns at this stage they then have to implement a full licence review at a later stage to deal with the most minor problems.
Click to expand...

They are entitled but surely you would have to be a bit of a Victor Meldrew to object to having a nice place to eat and have a drink? I read the objection and it is based on the fact this will bring drunken people to the area and cause noise pollution. Brixton Water Lane is not a peaceful side road but the most noise pollution comes from traffic. The person complaining does not live in Brixton Water Lane by the way.

Rushy said:
I'll be surprised if they don't get the licence, albeit with some conditions attached. If they don't it should not be viewed as a disaster since Khan's does very well without a licence.
Click to expand...

They have given up a large portion of their space to a bar and it will be a place you can stop for a drink without a meal. Khan's is a restaurant, take-away and delivery service that makes its money solely on food, Brixton Space will be reliant on people coming in to eat.
 
DJWrongspeed said:
The objections are probably more aimed at the Hoot, any further licensing being viewed as more noise.
Click to expand...

I really like the Hoot but the overspill and can drinking in the street must really upset the less liberal neighbours.

DJWrongspeed said:
What are there licensing hours, it doesn't say in their plea for support???
Click to expand...

From memory....

Till 11pm Sunday - Monday
Till 12pm Thursday
Till 1am Friday - Saturday
 
They are entitled but surely you would have to be a bit of a Victor Meldrew to object to having a nice place to eat and have a drink? I read the objection and it is based on the fact this will bring drunken people to the area and cause noise pollution. Brixton Water Lane is not a peaceful side road but the most noise pollution comes from traffic. The person complaining does not live in Brixton Water Lane by the way.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is quite so clearcut. At the moment there is one late night venue there. That's quite different to allowing the parade to turn into as series of bars - that would change the nature of the area. Maybe that is what they are worried about.

Personally, I would rather like another selection of non-club evening venues just there but I can see why it might be considered a the beginning of problem by closer neighbours.

I take your point about noise from traffic but IME I live next to a main road and the only thing that wakes me up is people making late night noise, whether it is happy shouting or drunken arguing.

They have given up a large portion of their space to a bar and it will be a place you can stop for a drink without a meal.
Click to expand...
Oops. Sounds fairly essential to the business plan. Couldn't they have sorted the licence thing before going ahead with the refurb?
 
Rushy said:
I don't think it is quite so clearcut. At the moment there is one late night venue there. That's quite different to allowing the parade to turn into as series of bars - that would change the nature of the area. Maybe that is what they are worried about.

Personally, I would rather like another selection of non-club evening venues just there but I can see why it might be considered a the beginning of problem by closer neighbours.
Click to expand...

I doubt the parade could sustain a 'series of bars' but guess that people would see that as a bit of a worse case scenario. Somehow the area seems to support 4 off-licences so anything is possible.



Rushy said:
Oops. Sounds fairly essential to the business plan. Couldn't they have sorted the licence thing before going ahead with the refurb?
Click to expand...

I don't know enough about the license process really.
Would the set up of a business, sound systems, etc have a bearing?
 
Badgers said:
I don't know enough about the license process really.
Would the set up of a business, sound systems, etc have a bearing?
Click to expand...

I can't find a premises application online for them. Is is a Premises licence or the manager's personal licence they are having problems with?

I am guessing it must be the premises licence. Most conditions could be negotiated before refurb. For instance - to take your example, they are not really interested in the details of your sound system. A condition m ight be as simple as "sound will not be audible from neighbouring premises". Theoretically you could be in breach with a pocket radio but not in breach with a 100 gazillion megawatt oompah system if your sound proofing was good enough.
 
oh we'll probably drop by - we have a (very rare - like once every 6 months) date night tonight - so I think an "aperitif" there would be in order! How exciting!
 
Forgot we are off to drink and learn tonight.
If it still going later we will pop in.
They think they will open at 7:30pm.
 
well perfect, 'cos the babysitter is due 7:30 - and I'm a big fan of BYOB too (although it's obviously not great if you're trying to run a bar!)
 
we were the first customers! They were really nice and I do feel sorry for them with this alcohol licencing business - they're fairly obviously not going to be anywhere near as loud as the Hootenanny - it's all very low key. They've stuck up all the correspondence they've had re the licencing including a long letter of objection and several letters of support - including one from the Brixton Water Lane residents association. It all makes for interesting reading. I do understand why residents get upset by noise - but in this instance it's a bit illogical.

Run by a Polish lady and her Argentinian business partner, they're going to have 25 or so different tapas available -"fusion tapas" they said - ie not all Spanish given their backgrounds. We just had some bread, oil and olives but the selection of bread was amazing - especially for the price.

Anyway, I wish them luck - they've obviously put a lot of work into their small bar and it's a nice idea.
 
well it's quite small in there but then they bill themselves as family friendly - with high chairs etc.. I think if you could fold it up it might be ok but honestly speaking, I think they'd struggle with more than one pram.
 
From a resident

Hello. As a resident of Brixton Water Lane I thought I'd add a few thoughts and hopefully clarify a couple of things. I definitely don't want to claim to speak for everyone on Brixton Water Lane but perhaps I can shed some light on why most people on the street (in fact including the residents association) have objected to the licence.

Firstly I wanted to emphasise how keen everyone on the street is to see Brixton Space succeed. In the past it's proved difficult for shops/ cafes on that parade to make a go of it, and we are all really keen to see Brixton Space take off and thrive. It's not in anyone's interests to have a row of boarded up shops and it would be nice to have another place to go, along with Brazas and Khan's - two of my favourites.

So personally I'm not at all against them having a licence. The concern, and as I understand it this is the case with most of the objections, is around a LATE licence.

The street is home to a large number of families and quite a few elderly couples who've lived there for decades. Although the Hoot lets out late the majority of the crowd head back to Brixton or up Tulse Hill. Few come down the street. Residents are worried that if Brixton Space is granted a late licence it will encourage drinkers to spread down the residential street, rather than staying on the main Tulse Hill/ Efra drag.

I understand the point that the Hoot already lets out late, so what difference will another place make? However, the Hoot has a huge amount of sound proofing and, as I say above, the crowd don't tend to come down the street. Further, the pub is a historical feature and has always been an important part of the neighbourhood. A late night bar in what was previously a small parade of shops is not, and would represent a substantial change in the character of the street.

Finally, if a late licence is granted it will be much easier for other premises on that parade to get one and it is possible that whole little stretch could become bars and clubs. While Brixton Space have a great, family friendly concept other businesses might not. For the families living opposite this would considerably increase noise levels.

What makes Brixton such a great place is it's fairly unique combination of a thriving social life, which attracts people from all over, mixed in with young families and long term residents. Maintaining this diversity of social mix means BOTH supporting local businesses AND ensuring it's a pleasant place to live. I'd like to see an agreement being reached over the licence to achieves both these things.

I know some animosity has developed between some of those objecting and the owners of Brixton Space. I am trying very hard to stay out of that, not least because we are really looking forward to going to Brixton Space regularly. However, I wanted to air the genuine concerns of those who live on the street about the impact of a LATE licence. The four people who have emailed in favour in fact all live in the same house and are tenants, not long term residents. There are already lots of late night bars in Brixton centre. Is it really necessary to open another one literally on the door step of families whose kids go to bed at 7.30?

I hope that clarifies some of the residents concerns. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 
Lots of fair points. I'm a bit confused though as to why they have a letter purporting to be from the BWL Residents Association supporting their licence? Maybe I read it completely wrong?
 
Sightly ott

Popped in on my way home today to check out new new establishment, and sad to hear such a thing has happened to a new local business. Understand residents wanting a quit neighbourhood, but this place is literally opposite the Hootanany's - possibly the loudest place in Brixton that is open the latest by far. Seriously this tiny little tapas place can seat about 10 people and could not possibly cause any more noise or raucous than it's neighbours, in fact it might do it's bit towards gentrifying the street somewhat. I welcome their edition and the license thing won't stop booze being drunk the, only undercut the bottom line of a new local business.

In the meantime I'm going to be taking advantage of the BYOB policy they can have in place licence or not.
 
gaijingirl said:
Lots of fair points. I'm a bit confused though as to why they have a letter purporting to be from the BWL Residents Association supporting their licence? Maybe I read it completely wrong?
Click to expand...

I can see why residents object - but it's also hard to see how the council can deny a business a licence allowed to two neighbouring, and larger, sites.
 
Read this thread with great interest- will probably try to get to Space as I love Tapas (even non-panish variety).

BTW, there seemed to be some activity at the old Harmony Bar further along the road- is that going to reopen in some way shape or form?
 
Darkejon said:
Popped in on my way home today to check out new new establishment, and sad to hear such a thing has happened to a new local business. Understand residents wanting a quit neighbourhood, but this place is literally opposite the Hootanany's - possibly the loudest place in Brixton that is open the latest by far. Seriously this tiny little tapas place can seat about 10 people and could not possibly cause any more noise or raucous than it's neighbours, in fact it might do it's bit towards gentrifying the street somewhat. I welcome their edition and the license thing won't stop booze being drunk the, only undercut the bottom line of a new local business.
Click to expand...

I agree here, but I think the point is it's more to do with precedence for any future licences i guess.
 
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