Popes road car park to become temporary Ice Rink

[Gramsci]

I got email from "Future Brixton" that the Popes road car park (next to Rec) is to become new home for the Ice Rink that was in Streatham. Its going to be temporary home whilst the Streatham development is finished.

The Car Park, according to the Council is structurally unsound and needs to be demolished. Its owned by Council as is the land its on.

I was wondering what people think of this?

The market traders arent happy the Car park is closed and there hasnt been replacement parking put in place.




Dear Future Brixton mailing list



Council Cabinet to consider temporary ice rink in Brixton



A cabinet report published today recommends the disused Popes Rd car park in Brixton is earmarked as the site for a temporary ice rink as part of the Streatham Hub regeneration scheme. The council-owned site is scheduled for demolition this year and would mean that the temporary ice rink could open next summer.



A shortlist of three sites – comprising the disused Popes Rd car park, Streatham Common and 512/522 Streatham High Road was considered. The Popes Rd site was chosen as the best option based on a number of factors including ease of access for visitors, technical matters, such as drainage and power supply, along with timescales and costs of developing land. This town centre location, next to Brixton Rec, already accommodates a large leisure facility and has excellent transport links.



If agreed, a planning application to build the temporary ice rink in Brixton will be submitted this summer.



The temporary rink could be open by next summer and will aim to encourage new skaters in Brixton, as well as provide a temporary home for existing skater groups.



We will be talking with local residents and businesses over the summer in addition to the statutory planning consultation and look forward to hearing your views.



You can find the latest information about Streatham Hub on the council website or you can use the contact the Future Streatham project team on futurestreatham@lambeth.gov.uk or on freephone 0800 052 6336.

 

[Laughing Toad]

Cars = bad; leisure = good.

It gets my vote. (No city in the world has better public transport than Brixton. We can justly complain about many things, but lack of transportation options isn't one of them. As has been pointed out before, retailers instinctively overestimate their customers' dependence on cars).

 

[ajdown]

If something isn't safe to be used as a car park... then why is it safe to be used as an ice rink? An ice rink, in itself, which replaces another crumbling one.

Don't think I'll be using it meself either way though.

 

[co-op]

If something isn't safe to be used as a car park... then why is it safe to be used as an ice rink? An ice rink, in itself, which replaces another crumbling one.

Don't think I'll be using it meself either way though.

You think they're going to use the actual car park?

 

[editor]

They ice rink has got council backing: http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixton-station-road-car-park-to-become-ice-rink/

I can't wait to see the back of that fucking hideous car park.

 

[Tricky Skills]

It's the best of a bad solution. Here's hoping that the council keeps to the pledge to move the temporary rink back to Streatham as part of the Hub project, and that also the promise not to allow Tesco to open until it has built the new pool and rink back in SW16 is also kept to.

The Brixton Market traders are far from happy, and neither are the hockey players or skaters from Streatham. Like I said - best of a bad solution.

 

[editor]

But that monstrous building gets reduced to rubble and the kids of Brixton get something to do, so it's not all bad.

 

[Kanda]

If something isn't safe to be used as a car park... then why is it safe to be used as an ice rink? An ice rink, in itself, which replaces another crumbling one.

Don't think I'll be using it meself either way though.

You could read the OP: 'The council-owned site is scheduled for demolition this year and would mean that the temporary ice rink could open next summer. '

 

[Tricky Skills]

But that monstrous building gets reduced to rubble and the kids of Brixton get something to do, so it's not all bad.

I'm in favour, broadly. Having a rink in Brixton, right next to the Rec as well is great. We should make the most of it whilst it is here. There is a strong feeling in Streatham, misguided or otherwise, that once again, Brixton gets all the re-development whereas Streatham is left to die on its arse.

Sites were available in Streatham (and were investigated by the council.) Finding a council owned plot of land, and pulling down that bloody awful car park at the same time ticks all the right planning boxes.

 

[Jonti]

Cars = bad; leisure = good.

It gets my vote. (No city in the world has better public transport than Brixton. We can justly complain about many things, but lack of transportation options isn't one of them. As has been pointed out before, retailers instinctively overestimate their customers' dependence on cars).

It's not a simple cars vs leisure tradeoff. People's jobs are at stake here, and the future of Brixton Market as a source of world foods.

A great many Brixton Market shoppers are women with young children carrying heavy items, who need somewhere to park. And there's a healthy "onward wholesale" trade too; check the size of sacks of vegetables, grains and pulses in even small grocers shops in Brixton and you begin to get the idea. The distinctive character and economic health of the market depends in large part on shifting goods out of the area wholesale style!

Even in the future, when all cars are electric, people will still need to cart loads around. And Tesco themselves seem in no doubt about the importance of parking to their business. Is there a Tesco of any size without associated parking?

Truth is, LB Lambeth is getting stitched up by Tesco again; Tesco gets to expand its Streatham store and to strangle Brixton's grocery trade as a bonus

 

[netbob]

Whilst it would be lovely if people didn't use cars to go shopping, the reality is that (at least for now) lots of people do. How many people will now go to Tesco or Lidl on Acre Lane because of the convenient carparks? Especially midweek when the market is already faltering.

I guess you could argue that closing a carpark will help the shift away from cars locally, but if it's done in isolation without measures to support the market traders then they end up taking the hit.

I wonder if the council couldn't:

- Make Tesco/Lidly charge (or charge more) for parking
- Explicitly advertise the alternative parking they are supposed to be putting in place
- Put lots more of those cyclehoops down electric avenue / station road


extra: yes the building is minging, no I don't drive.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

.....and don't underestimate the number of people who use Brixton Market but live miles away. What damages the market damages Brixton.

 

[tarannau]

This is a fucking stupid and short-sighted decision. I'm guessing that they believe it's a good way to make a quick saving and kill 2 birds with one stone, but it's kicking out another supporting leg from underneath the market. More than a fair few people I know, ex Brixton residents mainly, drive in and use that car park when visiting the market occasionally. Where they go now is a mystery

It's alright for us folk living within walking distance but this really sucks. Is it a done deal?

 

[Jonti]

no, it's not a done deal, although council officers seem keen (somewhat dishonestly, I'd say) to give the impression that it is, and that there is no alternative.

But no contracts have been signed yet, so there is every chance that Tesco or the Council will have second thoughts if there is sufficient outcry in support of the market traders.

There must be suitable alternative sites for an ice-skating rink somewhere in Lambeth, but parking for Brixton can only be in Brixton.

 

[Tricky Skills]

Cabinet has identified a third site along Streatham High Road for the rink. This was dismissed because of cost. Unlike Pope's Road, the council doesn't own it (two birds, one stone theory) and Tesco "doesn't have the budget." Tesco does have the cheek however to demand as part of the deal a further 40% increase in retail space back in Streatham.

Before Pope's Road became the current site of choice, Cabinet confirmed that twelve sites were considered for the temporary rink. It refused to name these publicly. Interestingly these have now been named, at the same time as Pope's Road becoming public knowledge. They include Brockwell Park and Clapham Common

The timing of making the other sites public seems to be to soften the blow to market traders back in Brixton.

 

[Gramsci]

Got this today from the market traders.



LAMBETH COUNCIL AND TESCO : SKATING ON THIN ICE

We believe Lambeth Council and Tesco are working to ethnically cleanse Brixton Market. They want a ‘temporary’ ice rink on Pope’s Road multi storey car park - to replace the rink in Streatham. Tesco will then have a monopoly on shoppers’ parking in Brixton town centre. The “temporary” rink will last at least 3 years. This will have a disproportionate impact on the independent ethnic shop keepers in the arcades, Electric Avenue, Atlantic Road and Pope’s Road. Their customers will be forced to shop elsewhere.


• We say put the temporary ice rink on Tesco’s car park

• We say public parking for Brixton Market and the town centre can only be in Brixton town centre

• Streatham people want to keep the ice rink in Streatham. We say let them keep it in Streatham!

• Why put the rink on a site which will negatively affect existing businesses and their customers?


WE SAY

HANDS OFF OUR CAR PARK !

 

[Gramsci]

Dear Friends and colleagues




I am writing to you in order to gain your support for 'Hands Off Our Car Park'





Tesco is building a new superstore/sports complex in Streatham on the site of the ice rink and sports centre. While this work is going on Lambeth council has decreed that there should be 'continuity of ice'. The site recommended for this continuity is Pope's Road multistorey car park. The temporary ice rink will be in place for a minimum of three, possibly four, years.




The ice rink users in Streatham don't want the rink in Brixton - parking is already an issue in the town centre and this will only increase demand for parking spaces. A successful campaign - 'Hands Off Our Common' was mounted when the residents of Streatham discovered that the council wanted to recommend putting the temporary ice rink on common ground.




Pope's Road car park was closed 4 days before Christmas 2009, and trade has dropped off significantly since the closure. Demolition is yet to begin.




The council has ignored all concerns from central Brixton businesses about the impact the temporary ice rink will have on the economy of Brixton town centre. The proposal even goes against the council's own Future Brixton Masterplan which states




'The masterplan is committed to reproviding all of the used car parking spaces for the town centre' (p38), and 'car parking is to be located in a new multi-storey facility at Popes Road, on-street and at the rear of proposed developments on Somerleyton Road and in the ground level Tesco car park adjacent to the Town Hall area, as a means to reinforce footfall in the centre and help to market Brixton as a major retail destination '(p68).




Meanwhile street market traders, indoor market traders and local independent shop keepers are suffering because shoppers have very limited parking spaces to take their weekly shop home. We are haemorrhaging customers to shopping centres such as Peckham, Lewisham and Tooting




We have no choice but to mount a campaign. The council must see sense and put the ice rink on a more suitable site - one which the rink users, the people of Streatham and Brixton businesses are comfortable with. Otherwise there will be no Brixton Market.




The Friends of Brixton market have offered their help and support for the campaign




Please read the attached campaign document and let me know as soon as possible if you do or do not wish to have your organisation associated with the campaign.We already have widespread support from the local business community, but off course your support will add much greater weight to the campaign.




The next steps




an organisational meeting will be held in the week starting 23rd August
send the campaign document to Lambeth council.
a public petition will be organised
a public meeting prior to the full council meeting of Wednesday October 13th




Please feel free to forward the campaign on to any interested community groups or organisations





The future of Brixton market depends on this.



Stuart Horwood

CEO Brixton Market Community Interest Company

stuart@brixtonmarket.net

07960 942060

 

[Skaters4the Hub]

Hi

Skaters 4 the Hub are against the Temporary Riink being on the Popes Road car park site, we were promised by Tesco's that if we accepted the need for them to build a temporary Ice Rink elsewhere, so that they would be able to demolish everything on the Streatham hub Site and have a cheaper quicker build, what do Tesco's get for this breach of the mayor's condition set down in 2004 by Ken Livingston to protect Streatham Ice Rink, they get their store 2 years earlier, a simpler construction single phase project, not content with these massive advantages they also are requesting an extra 50% of floor space for their store taking it from 40,000 sq ft to 60,000 sq ft by putting in a mezzanine floor for white goods. At 2004 prices they would have had to spend £2.4m pounds shoring up the then operational swimming pool to put in the bus turnaround area, they must have jumped for joy to learn the pool had been closed and would never open again. Lambeth's Labour election pledge was we would have the temporary rink on Streatham Common but Tesco's said could they reduce the size from 30m*60m we said and agreed that providing we have all the same facilities that we have in Streatham i.e. 58m*28m Ice Pad, cafe, party room, skate changing area, skateshop, coaches rooms, home and away hockey changeing rooms with showers, storage rooms for kit, 250 seats as a minimum, we thought they would honour their word but no HOOC fought them and won the day preventing the temporary rink from being on the common, Lambeth then say they investigated 14 alternative sites, amongst them the MI5 site in Streatham high Road and Popes Road, Abbey Storage have an existing planning permission and own the land at the MI5 site so that was out of the question, hence left with Popes Road, whats wrong with Popes Road, firstly it may sound stupid it's not in Streatham as promised, it can only fit a 56m*26m Ice pad, it will ahve a small cafe and changing room, only 87 seats including those in the cafe and changeing room, we will have only 18 parking bays and one drop off point, very limited space which means when the Fire Brigade investigate it it may also have limited numbers of skaters below the 1200 Streatham is allowed, combine this with the warning by police that it will be difficult to police particularly between the hours of 3pm and 7pm, and it will take many of our members at least half an hour more to travel to Brixton along the A23, amongst these users who use the rink from 6.00am till 2.00am are 65 special needs children from the Werewolves of london Hockey team, they cannot use public transport, cannot be dropped off outside whilst their parents, carers or volunteers find a place to park, they have heavy expensive kit and need to be accompanied at all times, this hockey team is a registered charity sponsored by Help a London Child, this plan is clearly unsuitable and I'm advised will be financially unsound, what management company will want to run an ice rink at a loss for 2 years or more, how will these clubs survive without beiing able to raise sufficient funds with so few seats how will they make a match pay for itself, even the Streatham Redskins will struggle where will all their fans sit or stand, where will their competitors park their coaches, unload all their gear and reload it at the end, we have over a hundred parking bays around the Streatham Ice Arena, and many more park in local streets, the coaches can park in the bus lanes outside the church, where will they go to park in Brixton, we have also found out that this car park will be missed by not just the market traders whose customers have relied on it heavily in the past but also by many of the big stores in Brixton, who have already signed the HANDS OFF OUR CAR PARK petition, this rink is not wanted in Brixton, it is pure folly to put a busy ice rink with heavy parking needs where a car park used to be, we understand that the market traders have been promised 50 car bays and so far have only been given 25, does that mean we may have none or similarly end up with 9, we don't trust Tesco's who have broken their promise although they have said they would look at other sites if Lambeth authorises them, there are two other sites that we feel would be workable but they require agreements with others, Crystal Palace requires Bromley and the LDA to agree and Stockport Road playing fields in Streatham Vale require Merton and The Power League to agree to acess from the Merton side, if nothing is available we see no reason why Tesco's should not build the project as originally promised on the Streatham Hub Site, we will fight Popes road as it is unfit for purpose, as our clubs and hockey teams will fail to survive, continuity of Ice in Streatham is not just an ice pad in Brixton it is meeting the needs of our 500+ regular users their parents careers and our very well organised Big Society of volunteers and helpers, please support our plight to prevent this badly thought through plan. We will be setting up an online petition and demonstrations in the coming weeks all are welcome to join or support us.

 

[trabuquera]

saw on the Onion Bag blog that Brixton market traders are claiming their sales are down by 30% in the period while the carpark has been closed. Say what you like about cars in built-up city centres, the market will not survive that kind of slump - if it's true - and their argument that a lot of their customers are occasional shoppers who buy in bulk is also compelling. sorry, but I'm with the tyres over the skates on this one.

 

[Gixxer1000]

Why not build an ice rink incorporating parking?

 

[Tricky Skills]

The best solution I have heard of late is to plonk the temporary rink in the car park of Tesco along Acre Lane. This will give the superstore all the incentive it needs to get it's finger out up in Streatham.

 

[co-op]

The best solution I have heard of late is to plonk the temporary rink in the car park of Tesco along Acre Lane. This will give the superstore all the incentive it needs to get it's finger out up in Streatham.

This would also give a chance to test out the - often claimed - virtue of the Tesco's car park to the market. Just survey the market spend before closure and then do the same while the ice rink is on the site.

One of the problems with the (hugely exaggerated?) claims made for the loss in trade for the market from the closure of Pope's Rd is that there is simply no credible data to back up opinions either way.

 

[Jonti]

So it's OK by you to experiment with other people's likelihoods

But, how do you propose to "survey the market trend" except by asking traders anyway?

 

[co-op]

So it's OK by you to experiment with other people's likelihoods

But, how do you propose to "survey the market trend" except by asking traders anyway?

Can't be bothered with this crap.

 

[Jonti]

I think you simply hadn't thought things through.

It's a fair observation, and a fair question. How do you propose to "survey the market trend" except by asking the traders?

 

[Jonti]

Hi

Skaters 4 the Hub are against the Temporary Rink being on the Popes Road car park site ... we see no reason why Tesco's should not build the project as originally promised on the Streatham Hub Site, we will fight Popes road as it is unfit for purpose, as our clubs and hockey teams will fail to survive, continuity of Ice in Streatham is not just an ice pad in Brixton it is meeting the needs of our 500+ regular users their parents careers and our very well organised Big Society of volunteers and helpers, please support our plight to prevent this badly thought through plan. We will be setting up an online petition and demonstrations in the coming weeks all are welcome to join or support us.

Thanks for this.

Once local councilors have the information they need about the effects of the proposal, they're likely to think twice. No-one affected wants Pope's Road. Crystal Palace or Stockport Road are far better suggestions.

 

[co-op]

I think you simply hadn't thought things through.

It's a fair observation, and a fair question. How do you propose to "survey the market trend" except by asking the traders?

*sigh*

No. It was an antagonistic and silly post, and you clearly hadn't (still haven't) thought it through.

It's not a question of being "ok to experiment with other people's livelihoods", - where the fuck have I said anything like that? (that's the silly antagonistic bit of your post).

But - if the ice rink were built on Tesco's car park - there would be a lead in period during which the market spend could be surveyed and compared with a similar survey afterwards. This would give some indication of the impact of parking closures on the market. Do you see? Then we would have some idea of whether or not the claims being made about the need for a car park are valid.

Note - not conclusive proof; just some idea.

As to how you survey the market spend , it's obviously not something you've thought about much. Just asking the traders is notoriously problematic. Traders have many reasons for not revealing the truth about their takings and whatever the morality of that, it's not the subject that a before and after comparison is trying to illuminate. So you would almost certainly do it another way - there are plenty of alternatives, all of which have some pro and some cons but most of which - if used consistently ie the same method before and after - are god enough to reveal a general trend.

It's a real shame that this was't done before the Pope's Rd carpark was closed because then we'd have a much better idea of how much - if anything - it's costing the market - although I suppose you'd have been against this because it would have been "experimenting with people's livelihoods"?

 

[OpalFruit]

There is a strong feeling in Streatham, misguided or otherwise, that once again, Brixton gets all the re-development whereas Streatham is left to die on its arse.

Sites were available in Streatham (and were investigated by the council.

And there was a huge residents campaign in Streatham against re-locating the temporary rink on the comon - even on a bit of common which is hardly pleasant for outdoor use due to the lack of screening from 6 lanes of traffic. Window after window of Streatham houses had 'hands off our Common' signs.

Streatham Residents should be careful what they wish for!

 

[co-op]

And there was a huge residents campaign in Streatham against re-locating the temporary rink on the comon - even on a bit of common which is hardly pleasant for outdoor use due to the lack of screening from 6 lanes of traffic. Window after window of Streatham houses had 'hands off our Common' signs.

Streatham Residents should be careful what they wish for!

I don't know that this is fair - the principle of not building on commons or parks (even "temporary" buildings) is one that any sensible local resident must support surely? The council were talking about sticking this thing on Brockwell Park ffs - I'd have been lying down in front of bulldozers on that one I can tell you.

What Streatham wanted - as far as I can judge - is for the ice rink to be built on the site of the Tescos rebuild on the old ice rink site - ie what they were told was going to happen when planning was granted. It's Tesco's decision to renege on that agreement and the council's supine acquiesence to that decision that has caused this mess.

The whole issue of building a "temporary" rink should never have come up.

 

[Streatham_Mao]

And there was a huge residents campaign in Streatham against re-locating the temporary rink on the comon - even on a bit of common which is hardly pleasant for outdoor use due to the lack of screening from 6 lanes of traffic. Window after window of Streatham houses had 'hands off our Common' signs.

Streatham Residents should be careful what they wish for!

So Streatham residents got what they deserved, did they? I don't think so. HOOC campaigned against building on common land for various reasons, including setting a nasty precedent where common land could be handed over to companies and built on. Besides, the rink would have been illegal half a dozen times over; there are a lot of laws governing the use of sites like that. There wasn't any interest in shipping the ice rink out to Brixton or shafting the skater groups, and the group had wanted the council to use a brownfield site in Streatham.

It's the council which decided to move the rink to Pope's Road; the same council which thought that building on a greenfield site was a good idea.