Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Countryside And Class

General Ludd

Banned
Banned
Was going to write a proper article but now I'm pissed and tired so it's more vague thoughts in article forms, but the thread needs starting so this'll do to set it off.


The list of grievances of the rural working class is a long one. The decline of post offices and local shops everywhere has been well document and in the countryside the absence of reliable public transport, or even the existence of public transport, has compounded the difficulties this creates. Rising house prices in urban areas have led to a huge increase in commuters with corresponding rises in house prices which has been unmatched by rural wages. Since there are no work pensions for the farm labourers the erosion of the state pension has had particularly harsh affects in the countryside, especially when combined with the physical isolation of small villages. And there are the traditional complaints, even after advances in wages and conditions during the first half of the 90’s, farm labourers will still typically earn £10,000 a year working 12 out of 14 days. There has also been a steep and constant reduction in the number of people employed on farms over the last 50 years and with no jobs replacing them obtaining any kind of employment has been increasing tricky for those not prepared to bow to the demands of capital and ’get on their bike’.

The Countryside Alliance and it’s campaign for the continuation of fox hunting initially appear odd vehicles for the expression of these grievances. The CA is led solely by middle, if not upper class people and, despite it’s claims to stand for more than just fox hunting, it was formed in response to a possible ban on fox hunting through a merger of the British Field Sports Society, the Countryside Movement and the Countryside Business Group, all groups who existed solely to perpetuate blood sports. Fox hunting also is predominantly (although not exclusively) a middle class activity. Yet to see the Countryside Alliance and associated demonstrations solely as a middle class vehicle for a middle class pursuit would be to miss how it has responded to the more demands of the rural working class and has become a vehicle for these desires.

These issues that primarily affect the rural working class, and the culture surrounding the rural working class (that working class people can wear tweed, fish and shoot is something that the leaders of groups such as the SWP have failed to comprehend) have been ignored by the left to such an extent that the CA has been able to masquerade as the defender of these ‘rights’, whilst actually centring it’s campaign around the bosses rights. And because of the CA’s role as vehicle for these issues it is very easy to miss the significance of the increased radicalism and mobilisation of the rural working class in the same manner as much of the left dismissed the fuel protests as reactionary rubbish. But it is important, both as a sign that the political forms of the rural working class are changing to reflected how their employment relationships have changed and also because it presents an opportunity for the left (in the widest possible sense of the word) to reconnect with the rural working class and begin to respond to it’s desires rather than ignoring it’s existence entirely or dealing only with an idealised and imaginary rural working class that never has existed.
 
Nice one. As someone who grew up on a smallholding in rural Wales I get pretty sick of derisory comments about 'inbreds', 'incest', 'backward yokels' and the like from try-hards on this site.

www.cymuned.org is an example of how rural Wales is becoming more organised and militant in the face of the massive housing crisis.
 
Quite incredibly insightful. The only comment I'd add would be with the Yuppification (?) of so many villages theres a strong rise in localism, and many working-class folk prefer the old rich bastids to the new 'uns, and the CA encourage that, and being the only flag making any sense, they salute it...
For me the sole gain of today is more folk might have woken up to the politics of control, rather than the fake suggestion of representation, of the cooly Britannic Labour government. :cool: :cool: :cool:
 
You mention some of the issues, eg rural transport. But hereabouts among local (small) farmers, that pales into insignificance when set alongside the current government's other foul-ups: the mishandling of BSE, foot & mouth, DEFRA, slaughterhouse closures, overzealous application of EU regulations along with failure to claim the same amounts for our farms, a growing mountain of paperwork, organophosphates ...

I personally know 3 farmers (one dairy herd, one sheep and one apples) who have gone out of business in the last couple of years. What class were they? Search me! They owned their farms but had mortgages and bank loans, drove old cars and worked all hours. Now the land just sits there, I'm sure there'll be housing for yuppie commuters on it one of these days.

I don't believe that a view of class based on an industrial model, has any relevance here. For most farmworkers, bosses aren't some remote guy in a top hat, they're working alongside you, you can see their lifestyle and it isn't a huge improvement on yours. So I think more people would identify themselves as "rural" than "working class". And Nu Labour's "socialist" label doesn't impress when you have the impression policies for the countryside are being made by people who've never stepped in a cowpat.
 
Some really pissed up and stoned ramblings at 3 in the morning....

1) Why the urban working class?

As we know, the modern socialist movement has tried to build its social base on the mass of people who don't own or control the means of production. As the theory goes, this working class have nothing to sell but their labour, and therefore have to collectively organise to attempt to find security - organise trade unions and the like. Thus rooted in this social existance is the possibility of collectivity and cooperation, rather than just individuality and competition.

2) Are there not rural labourers?

Of course! As well as workers in rural areas -rural postal workers, cooks, etc... - there are still some whose work is still actually connected to the land.

There used to be alot more - and with socialist traditions, especially in East Anglia - but farm labouring etc shrank massively many decades ago. Today, East Anglian farm labourers are likely to be from a poor country like Portugal or part of Eastern Europe - and spat upon (and employed) by xenophobic countryside alliance types, especially in places like Thetford!!.

3) What about the rural petty-bourgeoisie - are they not poor and oppressed?

Yes! Many of them are being driven out of buisiness (while many others are doing nicely out of the tragedy of their brothers and sisters).

4) 'Petty-bourgeoise'? What the fucks that then?

These are small property owners. I.e. working people who own their own means of production. A shopkeeper, a farmer, etc.

They often work long hours and sometimes get less pay than a skilled worker.

They can be both antagonistic towards both the big capitalists and the unionised working class.

Unlike organised workers, their path to prosperity lies through competition against each other. Thus they can find no possibility of class solidarity (so they conjur up the bogus solidarity of constructions like 'race' and 'nation').

5)Small farmers are petty-bourgeoise

And (unfortunately) they are being destroyed by modern global capitalism.

Previously, capitalism maintained small ownership of agricultural production.

In this period, big industrial capital, with its capital/ wage labour divison took over producing farm inputs (producing tractors, fertilizers, pesticides, etc) and farm outputs (food processing, supermarkets, etc).

But in the middle, small, owner / labourer (petty-bourgeoise) relations still prevailed on the land. This was because only family based (patriachal) relations of kinship would put up with the seasonal working patterns and irregular incomes. Farming involves periods of no work followed by periods of intense 23 hours a day work. As a system, modern wage slavery could not organise this - only petty-bourgeoise relations could.

Now, globalisation of food production, supermarket power and multinational corporate GM agriculture are destroying the small farmers globally.

But they are so riven by internal competition and right wing ideas, they find it hard to fight back. Instead, many are drawn in behind the toffs of the country-cide alliance. Their own legitimate demands become submerged in the clamour of this reactionary rabble.

6) Of course, it is the failure of the left....

...to get its shit together and find the politics to build a counter-hegemonic bloc of the workers that could give a collective lead to other oppresed classes like small farmers and other rural petty-bourgeoise.


[passes out after another bottle of red plonk after wasting 45 minutes writing this shit you have just read! ]
 
Just a quick note before I head off to work - we should be wary of concentrating too much on rural = agricultural, rural w/c = farm labourer. Farm labourers do exist, I was one on and off for 4 years, but the vast majority of work around here is in small factories and warehouses (between 20 and 100 people), on site as a builder etc, as a mechanic, or chopping trees and maintaining hedges, and then in the market towns working in shops, supermarkets, banks, post offices, local government.... or after a 30 minute drive the chance to work for an insurance company, or in some other shitty office job, or a call centre...
 
This is a very good thread

please everybody continue posting with this data [even if it anecdotal it is still data] which can form the basis for some real class composition analysis. Pity this approach was not more widespread at the time of the so called 'fuel protests' which IMO played a very similar, although more temporary, 'catalysing' role.

thanks

Gra
 
Just to say I agree with a fair bit of what GL wrote.
Not all, but I ain't gonna bite! ;) Yet.

Also totaladdict is write to point out that farm workers make up a very small % of the rural working class. I don't know anyone at home who works on a farm. Biggest single employer was a banana packing plant last time I checked.
 
Barry Kade is spot on here. The small farmers in Britain are classic petty-bourgeoisie and so will ultimately fall in behind capital or the workers movement. At the moment, and for the foreseeable future they are well and truly tied up with the capitalist class - which is of course the class that is killing them economically, and so driving many of them to suicide. While Farmers For Action recognises that the NFU is tied up with big business, it looks unlikely that FFA will look for allies among working class organisations - trade unions for example. The base of small farmers has been so depleted in Britain that the conditions for a Jose Bove style figure to emerge as in France arguably do not really exist.

What GL fails to examine is the corporate takeover of agriculture in Britain - agribusiness and the like - which renders his romanticised view of the rural working class increasingly problematic. While of course there are still workers who keenly take part in hunt sports, relatively to the size of the total rural working class they are a minority. The way to relate to the new working class in the countryside, working more often than not as Grtho pointed out in factories etc., is arguably still through 'old-fashioned' trade union organising - though starting with the political fact that no mainstream party represents their interests.

Lets not hype up the actual support for the Countryside Alliance among rural workers - even many of those who actually go on the protests are aware of the fact that it is a pro-big business lobby group. It has become a vehicle for protest against rural discontent - as GL pointed out - but it is a vehicle that is going nowhere very fast.
 
I think there us a real problem with the urban/rural dichotamy.

I would say that the vast majority of what is classed as the 'countryside' is nothing of the sort. Much of it is an extended communter belt for the affluent middle class - despite living in the country they actually work and conduct much of their social interaction, shopping and leisure in the towns and cities.
This is a million miles away from the mythologising of the CA who draw much of their support from precisely this group.
Working class people who live in these areas are also - as has been pointed out - unlikely to be working in agribusiness, they are more likely to be working in exactly the same low pay, low skill jobs as the 'urban' working class. It is these people who suffer the poor transport facilities and lack of services - not the multiple car owning middle classes. Certainly this was my experience whilst growing up in rural Essex.

To find 'authentic' rural lifestyles you would have to go to the most remote parts of the british isles where you are at least a few hours away from a major town - which would leave you with bits of the sout west, parts of wales, a few parts of northern england and the scots highlands.

Basically apart from a small minority of people working on old style country estates, the 'rural' and 'urban' working class are surely virtually indentical; other than the fzct that the people living outside of the urban areas are more isolated by geography. I also dont belive that their is much support for the CA from this group either - why should they're be? They have as little contact and connection with the CA types as the rest of us.

The CA have impact because they have the resources to mobolise large numbers of people, because they have very rich and influential backers/leadership and they have been able to sell a cosy myth of reactionary ruralism to the green welly, 4x4 upper middle class 'rural' settlers who have as much connection to the countryside as the massive out of town retail park where they buy their garden furneture, Wax Cotton jackets and walking boots.

oh - and excellent point about much of agricultural work (picking and packing) being carried out by low pay immigrant workers - much of it in harsh 'factory' conditions as well.
 
GL - you mentioned the
the increased radicalism and mobilisation of the rural working class
which, as you know, is a surprise to me. are there specific instances of this you can cite, or something to put flesh on this one?
 
Yes, there are good ideas on here, but we really must realise that it is not only that the working class fishes, poaches, coarses, shoots (in all four cases sometimes illegally) and so on... I also agree that the fuel protests did have a working class element to them (one of their leaders, Brynle Williams, is now a Tory councillor isn't he though) There is also a difference between working class/progressive direct action, and right wing direct action, and all too often it is easy for the right in these areas to gather up all 'protest' because of a lack of anything else... because of the conservative nature of many of these areas those with left/@ ideas have tended to move to urban areas... perhaps an element of 'working class flight'... As I mention elsewhere, the T & G agricultural workers section knows historically the pay is low, health and safety is crap, and has an anti hunting position whcih has meant it has 20000 members I think...
 
does anyone have contact with wellred these days? He would be interesting to involve in this discussion- after all he was involved with the RPM pamphlet on the Countryside Alliance wasn't he?
 
The Black Hand said:
Yes, there are good ideas on here, but we really must realise that it is not only that the working class poaches, (in all four cases sometimes illegally).....

I'd beg to differ with thart one. In all cases poaching is illegal, and you wouldnt find any of the middle/upper classes doing it.

The Black Hand said:
because of the conservative nature of many of these areas those with left/@ ideas have tended to move to urban areas... perhaps an element of 'working class flight'.

Or rather an influx of those with wealth and right-wing ideas who contribute little or nothing to the local economy or society diluting those with 'left wing' ideas that live there, coupled with a lack of jobs forcing the working class to move to urban areas, perhaps. As oppose to those with leftist ideas fleeing due to 'ideological differences'.
 
oh - and excellent point about much of agricultural work (picking and packing) being carried out by low pay immigrant workers - much of it in harsh 'factory' conditions as well.



But these are exactly the jobs that were they mainstay ecconomy of the rural wc,albiet better paying then than they are now,a decade ago (pre minimum wage a packing job would start at about £6 per hour basic plus guaranteed overtime rates for seasonal work) which in comparison to the £2.70 offered by catering was reasonable pay given the lower costs of living.These days a portuguese meat packer can expect to take home around £170 for a 35 hour week with little or no opportunity to boost income with additional overtime payments.

Much of the recent "ecconomic miracle" of east anglia is based upon growth in consumer demand for prepared salads and sandwhiches and highly profitable turkey by-product novelty shaped meat product,items which in the event of an ecconomic downturn are the first areas to feel the squeeze as consumers cut back in luxury items.(it was during the last recession that Del Monte aquired Fisher foods a local sandwich making firm).

The bosses claim that locals dont want the jobs,yet they are reluctant to increase wages in line with the cost of living.Therefore to sustain growth they have to recruit directly from overseas,and it is this in turn has lead to the dangerous imbalance in the negotiating power between on one side the individual and the union and on the other the boss and the gang master and led to intra-class conflict between itinerant and settled workers

It wasn't for the most part the petty burgious that were involved in the thetford disturbances (or for that matter other attacks upon portugese and foreign owned buisnesses and individuals that went for the most part unreported across the area earlier in the summer.

the CA and to a greater extent UKIP (both groups mainly drawn from the same if not identical pool of discontented tories)have been able to monopolise on this insecurity and make political gain.
 
I'd agree with the vast majority of the Generals points in the first post, with the exception that the Countryside Alliance still represents many rural dwellers beyond the ranks of the middle-and-upper-classes.

That it did so, to a greater or lesser degree, seemed to be true (from the annual chat to mates who still live in the semi-rural area I was brought up in) when it was set up, and probably remained so until maybe three years ago. But the complete and utter lack of serious activity around any issue other than fox-hunting (post office & bank closuers particularly) has lead those 'ordinary' people to dismiss it as yet another organisation for middle-class tossers.
 
I don't believe that a view of class based on an industrial model, has any relevance here. For most farmworkers, bosses aren't some remote guy in a top hat, they're working alongside you, you can see their lifestyle and it isn't a huge improvement on yours. So I think more people would identify themselves as "rural" than "working class".
I'm not sure. Because the state and media appear almost entirely urban any dissent aginst the state appears in rural vs urban, the city takes on the role of Babylon. I don't think that removes any class basis from people's experiences or analysis though, whilst almost all employment is for tiny businesses (although my step dad is working on a farm at the moment that's one of a 'chain' of 6 owned by the same guy) I have always found a very strong sense of us and them - I've heard hundreds of rants about how farmers are the worst possible bosses. (and I'd agree with that, working for a family farm is a nightmare)
To find 'authentic' rural lifestyles you would have to go to the most remote parts of the british isles where you are at least a few hours away from a major town - which would leave you with bits of the sout west, parts of wales, a few parts of northern england and the scots highlands.
That lifestyles aren't authentically rural doesn't mean that people don't identify themself as rural.

Oddly enough the people who got into Parliment yesterday come from Ledbury and ride in one of the Ledbury hunts so I'm going to do a wee bit of research cause I know some people involved in the North Ledbury hunt and only live a few miles away.



Edited to add, will answer your questions later Jezza as they require a more substantial answer.
 
The way to relate to the new working class in the countryside, working more often than not as Grtho pointed out in factories etc., is arguably still through 'old-fashioned' trade union organising - though starting with the political fact that no mainstream party represents their interests.
Oh dear. The failure of the unions and the way in which they have become outdated is one of the reasons that the CA can recieve the support of rural working class people.
 
kropotkin said:
does anyone have contact with wellred these days? He would be interesting to involve in this discussion- after all he was involved with the RPM pamphlet on the Countryside Alliance wasn't he?
Haven't heard from him for ages, and no, he wasn't involved in writing it.
 
Funky_monks said:
I'd beg to differ with thart one. In all cases poaching is illegal, and you wouldnt find any of the middle/upper classes doing it.



Or rather an influx of those with wealth and right-wing ideas who contribute little or nothing to the local economy or society diluting those with 'left wing' ideas that live there, coupled with a lack of jobs forcing the working class to move to urban areas, perhaps. As oppose to those with leftist ideas fleeing due to 'ideological differences'.

Yes, poaching generally these days is mainly working class, but not TOTALLY exclusively so... and in the old days there were loads of gentlemen poaches due to the nature of the game laws that forbid the farmer from shooting game on land he hired from the local landowner....

ANd in your last paragraph, it's ALL of the things you mentioned...
 
The Black Hand said:
Yes, poaching generally these days is mainly working class, but not TOTALLY exclusively so... and in the old days there were loads of gentlemen poaches due to the nature of the game laws that forbid the farmer from shooting game on land he hired from the local landowner....

ANd in your last paragraph, it's ALL of the things you mentioned...

So tennant farmers turned 'gentleman poachers'? Not that I've heard of.

And in my last paragraph, I really dont think the driving factor of rural working classes to the city is 'ideological differences'.

I'm only speaking from personal experience though, maybe you have some sources?
 
General Ludd said:
Oh dear. The failure of the unions and the way in which they have become outdated is one of the reasons that the CA can recieve the support of rural working class people.

but does it have the support of significent numbers of 'rural' working class people beyond the remnants of those working in old style agriculture - tied labourers etc - who make up a tiny fragment of the 'rural' working class population?


Another point - I was working in south yorkshire today where there are many, many w/class people living in isolated communites enduring shite services, endemic drug problems and high levels of poverty. I would say support for the CA amongst these people is microscopic - despite they're being a large number of south yorkshire hunts.
I see far far more support for the CA when i go to visit the folks down in Essex, and its from people who are in moslty middle class commuters.
 
Hmmm this is all very interesting...

Anyone know of any historical precedents for progressive w/c politics in the countryside? Any "progressive" organisations now, apart from the unions?
 
rebel warrior said:
Reg Groves book - The Hammer and the Hoe (?) is about rural working class struggle I think, but have not read it.
Sharpen the sickle - a history of the Farm Workers' Union

From 50 years ago - things have changed somewhat since then.
 
Back
Top Bottom