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George Monbiot on "Wales' unreported revolution"

lewislewis

Lumumba Cymru
He's not to everyone's taste, but Monbiot's take on rural radicalism in Wales is exactly the same as the perceptions I had when, as a non-Welsh speaking urbanised person, spent time in rural Wales amongst Plaid circles for the first time.

Excellent article which demonstrates Plaid's thinking and the progress that is being made here. The people commenting on a previous thread who thought Plaid were 'neo-liberal' like the SNP, and that weren't familiar with the Welsh situation, could do worse than read this article.

For the past few years a quiet but momentous revolution has been taking place. That this has passed largely unnoticed in England reflects the media's lack of interest in Wales. English progressives know more about the political transformation in Bolivia than the similar shift happening over the border. Perhaps this is just as well. The Welsh have been left to get on with it, and nobody in England cares enough to try to stop them.

It was Plaid Cymru that led the attempt to impeach Tony Blair over the invasion of Iraq. It opposed the conflict in Afghanistan from the outset. It wants to scrap Trident and cancel the aircraft carrier and Eurofighter contracts. It would break up the banks, ban short selling, tax foreign exchange transactions, raise capital gains tax, raise income tax for the rich while reducing it for the poor. It would set a maximum wage and give workers seats on corporate boards.

It seeks to renationalise the railways and curb the power of the supermarkets. It wants a living pension for everyone over 80, to raise benefits in line with average earnings and to scrap tuition fees. It would abandon ID cards, stop detaining asylum seekers and shift sentencing away from prison and towards restorative justice.

Such policies are widely held to make parties in England unelectable. But in Wales they are considered mainstream, and not just among Plaid supporters.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/19/wales-devolution-welsh-assembly
 
"Such policies are widely held to make parties in England unelectable."

*sigh*

And they can't be very unpopular either.
 
At the moment, I'm vacillating between the party I've generally supported most of my life, and Plaid.

I'm certainly not qualified to be seen as a Welsh nationalist, given that I'm an eighth Welsh and have lived here for but an eighth of my life; the only Welsh I speak is what I've read on road signs, and I even live in a predominantly English-speaking part of Wales (yes, south of the Landsker line).

But, even if I didn't even LIKE Wales, Plaid's agenda fits mine rather nicely. I did used to think of them as a rather ditzy minority nationalist party, but the more I've seen of them, the more impressed I've been.

So now I have a problem, for the first time in my life - a choice between two political parties whose aims I sympathise with :)
 
Plaid has made a real breakthrough in anglophone Wales in recent years, many of my relatives in the Valleys now vote for them when traditionally they automatically supported Labour.
 
At the moment, I'm vacillating between the party I've generally supported most of my life, and Plaid.

I'm certainly not qualified to be seen as a Welsh nationalist, given that I'm an eighth Welsh and have lived here for but an eighth of my life; the only Welsh I speak is what I've read on road signs, and I even live in a predominantly English-speaking part of Wales (yes, south of the Landsker line).

But, even if I didn't even LIKE Wales, Plaid's agenda fits mine rather nicely. I did used to think of them as a rather ditzy minority nationalist party, but the more I've seen of them, the more impressed I've been.

So now I have a problem, for the first time in my life - a choice between two political parties whose aims I sympathise with :)

Don't vote BNP. Or is there another with similar aims to Pc?
 
Plaid has made a real breakthrough in anglophone Wales in recent years, many of my relatives in the Valleys now vote for them when traditionally they automatically supported Labour.
I imagine Plaid's politics have more to do with old 'socialist' Labour than the current Tory-lite nu-version.
 
I imagine Plaid's politics have more to do with old 'socialist' Labour than the current Tory-lite nu-version.
And I did wonder whether a good part of the reason for the switch might not have been so much Plaid winning support, as Labour haemorrhaging it :)

Like the adage says "...but it's governments which LOSE elections".
 
Plaid's manifesto certainly ticks almost all of my boxes.

With the creation of the Welsh Assembly the Welsh Nationalists found themselves in a quandry in that it was obvious that this was has good has it gets. This meant they had nothing to lose by offering ludicurous promises which they have not a hope of achieving even if they managed to gain a majority in the assembly.

That aside, nationalism by its very nature is divisive for the working class who have no country worth calling their 'own'. I hesitate to call them the Welsh people for the Cymro ceased to exist with the introduction of the industrial revolution and the constant immigration since.

For instance on my mother's side there is Norman heritage whilst my father came from African American stock. With such a mix I am in reality a citizen of the world and just happen to reside in Wales. The aim of nationalism is to whip up support for those homegrown capitalists who are out to feather their nests on the backs of the working class.
 
Excellent article which demonstrates Plaid's thinking and the progress that is being made here. The people commenting on a previous thread who thought Plaid were 'neo-liberal' like the SNP, and that weren't familiar with the Welsh situation, could do worse than read this article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/19/wales-devolution-welsh-assembly

The patronising sneer about people not being familiar with the welsh situation is all well and good, but having spent time living and working in Wales all I can say is that your definition of neo-liberalism must be quite odd.
 
Unfortunately I can't get around the fact that Ieuan Wyn Jones is in favour of building a new generation of nuclear power stations when his party is against it. No matter how good the manifesto look 'on paper'.
 
I don't. They're not. I was making a point about other parties that are claimed to be similar to the Pc in their aims. Can you think of any?
If you're referring to my post, I haven't claimed Plaid's aims to be similar to any other party's. I said that there were two parties whose aims I sympathise with.

I realise that this might put a bit of a crimp in that particular bit of shit-stirring of yours, but you know where to shove it, don't you? ;)
 
I hesitate to call them the Welsh people for the Cymro ceased to exist with the introduction of the industrial revolution and the constant immigration since. .
Why do you think so many describe themselves as Welsh then? Are they all mistaken?
 
If you're referring to my post, I haven't claimed Plaid's aims to be similar to any other party's. I said that there were two parties whose aims I sympathise with.

I realise that this might put a bit of a crimp in that particular bit of shit-stirring of yours, but you know where to shove it, don't you? ;)

If you're claiming that your political aims are incoherent or contradictory then go ahead. It's just odd after a typically long post in which you detail why party a) actually now has the aims you'd like party b) to have/do have.

So now I have a problem, for the first time in my life - a choice between two political parties whose aims I sympathise with

Maybe these are totally opposed aims?
 
Unfortunately I can't get around the fact that Ieuan Wyn Jones is in favour of building a new generation of nuclear power stations when his party is against it. No matter how good the manifesto look 'on paper'.

Thats largely because of where his constituency is, and what one of its largest employers is.
 
Why do you think so many describe themselves as Welsh then? Are they all mistaken?

If it eases your lack of identity you have my permission to call yourself 'Welsh'. For myself, I much prefer a global identity rather than being confined to a specific locality which by its very nature produces an insular or restricted view of the world and where patriots abound. My self-identity as a citizen of the world enables my to envisage a world without borders (physically and mentally), where sharing the world resources in common means the market, private and state ownership along with money are obsolete and no longer a hinderance to social and individual improvement.

The workers have no need for the self imposed chains of national identity.
 
If it eases your lack of identity you have my permission to call yourself 'Welsh'. For myself, I much prefer a global identity rather than being confined to a specific locality which by its very nature produces an insular or restricted view of the world and where patriots abound. My self-identity as a citizen of the world enables my to envisage a world without borders (physically and mentally), where sharing the world resources in common means the market, private and state ownership along with money are obsolete and no longer a hinderance to social and individual improvement.

The workers have no need for the self imposed chains of national identity.

You must be a riot at parties.
 
My self-identity as a citizen of the world enables my to envisage a world without borders (physically and mentally), where sharing the world resources in common means the market, private and state ownership along with money are obsolete and no longer a hinderance to social and individual improvement.

See, I can do all that and still be Welsh :cool:

And have English, Jewish and Indian ancestry as well.
 
The workers have no need for the self imposed chains of national identity.
Most workers would look at you funny if you started spouting that load of clichéd bollocks at them.

Oh, and you'd best avoid any Wales rugby games as they'd set you off in a right tiswas. All those workers! Calling themselves Welsh! The fools!
 
If you're claiming that your political aims are incoherent or contradictory then go ahead. It's just odd after a typically long post in which you detail why party a) actually now has the aims you'd like party b) to have/do have.
Oh, so it was just another little bit of shitstirring. Quel surprise! (that's French, btw, although I suspect I'll be labelled a class traitor for using the very language from which the word "bourgeoisie" came from :rolleyes:)

Maybe these are totally opposed aims?
And maybe you need to shove this patronising, shitstirring, "I kno so much about politicks that I even knu wot u r finking" nonsense up your arse.

With any luck, it'd stop the voice coming out. That'd be :cool:
 
If you're referring to my post, I haven't claimed Plaid's aims to be similar to any other party's. I said that there were two parties whose aims I sympathise with.

I realise that this might put a bit of a crimp in that particular bit of shit-stirring of yours, but you know where to shove it, don't you? ;)

I'd assumed you might mean Green.
 
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With the creation of the Welsh Assembly the Welsh Nationalists found themselves in a quandry in that it was obvious that this was has good has it gets. This meant they had nothing to lose by offering ludicurous promises which they have not a hope of achieving even if they managed to gain a majority in the assembly.

That aside, nationalism by its very nature is divisive for the working class who have no country worth calling their 'own'. I hesitate to call them the Welsh people for the Cymro ceased to exist with the introduction of the industrial revolution and the constant immigration since.

If it eases your lack of identity you have my permission to call yourself 'Welsh'. For myself, I much prefer a global identity rather than being confined to a specific locality which by its very nature produces an insular or restricted view of the world and where patriots abound. My self-identity as a citizen of the world enables my to envisage a world without borders (physically and mentally), where sharing the world resources in common means the market, private and state ownership along with money are obsolete and no longer a hinderance to social and individual improvement.

The workers have no need for the self imposed chains of national identity.
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