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A reeking resolution.

moono

Resigned.
Banned
Sadly, though, on many issues the Israelis remain as intransigent as Hizbullah may prove, so it is still hard to see a ceasefire sticking. The lack of balance in the draft resolution poses further problems. Israel is called on only to end "offensive military actions", but it claims the whole disproportionate campaign so far has been defensive. The demand for the immediate release of Israeli soldiers, whose capture triggered the war, is not mirrored in respect of Lebanese prisoners held south of the border. Israel's troops will be able to remain inside Lebanon for the immediate future - something Hizbullah is unlikely to accept - while Lebanese grievances, such as the occupation of Shebba Farms, are not addressed. It is unsurprising that Lebanon moved to reject the draft - especially when bombardment, as in Israel, has hardened domestic opinion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1838843,00.html


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5250194.stm


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5AEA516B-5199-4477-907B-5E2A4B481A49.htm


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/747329.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1838869,00.html


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1838369,00.html
Full text.


Obviously, and I emphasise the word, those charged with producing a Resolution are no good at it. They tell us they are, but they ain't.
 
This resolution was concocted to please the US and its client, Israel. It was delayed so that Israel could pursue its policy of collective punishment unabated and unhindered.

I noticed how Rice urged the UN to quickly vote on it. What's her hurry? She was in no great hurry to actually put a proper resolution together, was she?

:mad:
 
It's another slab on the road to attacking Iran. Fortunately, both the Russians and the Chinese must see that clearly already.

What a pitiful prospect when you've got to pin your hopes on the Russians and the Chinese.
 
moono said:
It's another slab on the road to attacking Iran. Fortunately, both the Russians and the Chinese must see that clearly already.

What a pitiful prospect when you've got to pin your hopes on the Russians and the Chinese.

Aye, you can see how things are panning out vis a vis Iran and I've noticed how both Iran and Syria are often dragged into the discussion.

Tbh, I keep thinking of Suez and how the UK and France got Israel to attack Egypt.
 
Mears, everybody knows that Hizb'allah will not respect a 'loaded' resolution. Even if the Zionists broke the terms of it first, Hizb'allah would still be the subject of whatever punishments Uncle Slam has in store for 'arabs'.

The 'resolution' would be the groundwork for further isolating anti-American/Israeli opposition. Further, should it be accepted, it will severely damage the image of the UN as a just organisation.
 
moono said:
Mears, everybody knows that Hizb'allah will not respect a 'loaded' resolution. ...
I thought that was the aim, though? Because then the zionists and the US can say 'Look, it's not our fault, it's the Lebanese, it's Hizbollah that don't want peace. We want peace, but they don't, because they're bad terrorists and we should blast them to hell and back (and their wives, elderly parents, and children, while we're at it).

:(
 
It's interesting. Without any apparent consultation with anyone from Lebanon, the US and France have announced this. It's pretty clear that the terms are unacceptable to the Lebanese, notably Hezbollah, but the regular Lebanese government too by the look of it. Given the apparent military realities on the ground, it seems quite obvious that no agreement is possible on these terms.

So it looks to me like the proposal is intended to have a propaganda effect only. It certainly lacks many features that one would expect in a proposal seriously intended to bring an end to the conflict (which would at minimum require talking to both sides and looking for a deal acceptable to both sides)
 
Robert Fisk is (unsurprisingly, given that he lives there) not impressed either.
So the great and the good on the East River laboured at the United Nations Security Council - and brought forth a lemon. You could almost hear the Lebanese groan at this draft resolution, a document of such bias and mendacity that a close Lebanese friend read carefully through it yesterday, cursed and uttered the immortal question: "Don't these bastards learn anything from history?"

And there it all was again, the warmed-up peace proposals of Israel's 1982 invasion, full of buffer zones and disarmament and "strict respect by all parties" - a rousing chortle here, no doubt, from Hizbollah members - and the need for Lebanese sovereignty. It didn't even demand the withdrawal of Israeli forces, a point that Walid Moallem, Syria's Foreign Minister - and the man the Americans will eventually have to negotiate with - seized upon with more than alacrity. It was a dead UN resolution without a total Israeli retreat, he said on a strategic trip to Beirut.

A close analysis of the American-French draft - the fingerprints of John Bolton, the US ambassador to the UN, were almost smudging the paragraphs - showed just who is running Washington's Middle East policy: Israel. And one wondered how even Tony Blair would want to associate himself with this nonsense.
source
 
What Bush and co are saying is that we cant have a ceasefire which leaves Israel with nothing to show for its war.

Agree with Bernie - propagandar effect only. I predict all the usual suspects will be frothing about 'Hezbollah breaking the ceasefire cos they are evil terrorists' on these boards for as long as this conflict goes on and on and on.
 
Well then, everybody can already see through it. How can they possibly get away with it ?
 
Nino: "Collective Punishment." Right, going after missiles that rain down on Israel, fired by a group concocted by its enemies merely to try and destroy it is a "collective punishment."


"Iran and Syria being dragged into the discussion." Seeing as Iran created Hezbollah and both Iran and Syria keep arming it and funding it it only seems natural.

Ann: "I though that was the aim." No the aim is for Arab rejection [as you partially said] but for a different reason. Israel wants the Resolution rejected so that it can get in as many punches as it can before the bell is rung. In fact, it has made no secret about this at all.

Bernie: "Without any apparent consultation..." Actually, Nabih Berri [from AMAL] is the person authorised by Hezbollah to negotiate this Resolution on their behalf. In addition he is the Lebanese speaker of Parliament so he speaks for the Lebanese as well.
 
rachamim18 said:
Nino: "Collective Punishment." Right, going after missiles that rain down on Israel, fired by a group concocted by its enemies merely to try and destroy it is a "collective punishment."
You are not going after the rockets, as the rockets have been launched and launcher has long left the scene. Collective Punishment as in I'm going to drop a bomb in that area where there are civilians and just by shear luck I'll get the rocketeer but more likely the civilians will be killed but I'll be a hero and go home feeling like a smug cunt knowing I've killed me some dirty dirty arabs.


--------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Norris drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls.
 
Darth: "Not going after rockets." Not true at all. In addition to that fact, we encounter HEAVY armed resistance in each Shia village [and most abandoned Christain] villages we enter. It is house to house combat so your comments are not making much sense.

In any event, the nature of Assymetrical Warfare dictates moderate to heavy collateral damage on the irregular side. I know it sounds cavalier but Hezbollah iniated the conflict while basing itself in residential areas.
 
Well, let's not ignore the possibility of your being victim to your own 'cavalier' collateral damage and then justice will have been served, what ?
 
rachamim18 said:
Darth: "Not going after rockets." Not true at all. In addition to that fact, we encounter HEAVY armed resistance in each Shia village [and most abandoned Christain] villages we enter. It is house to house combat so your comments are not making much sense.

In any event, the nature of Assymetrical Warfare dictates moderate to heavy collateral damage on the irregular side. I know it sounds cavalier but Hezbollah iniated the conflict while basing itself in residential areas.

Yeah the evil cunts - deliberately living in houses.

The tactic is quite cynical - you blast fuck out of areas where your enemy is operating in order to terrorise the civilian population into not co-opertating with them. Same as what the US is doing in Iraq and what the Israelis have been doing in Palastinie for years. Its collective punishment plain and simple and has been a favoured tactic of colonial armies since year dot.

In southern lebanon it also has the benefit of de-popualting the area of the uppity natives (and how dare they fight back against your army!) - when Serbia did this in Bosnia it was called 'ethinc cleansing' - i think they may have dropped leaflets saying 'leave or die' as well.

Why don't you get over there yourself Rachman? - there's a war on terror to fight dont you know?

Maybe you could flatten a few evil arab villages for the cause of civilisation.
 
Moono: thank you for wishing me dead but it does not change the substance of what I have posted.

KakaTim: "Blasting civilians so that they no longer cooperate with militias." No, it is blasting the militias so they no longer need the cooperation of said civilians.


"Collective punishment...colinial era....Iraq...and so on." And yet Mr. [or am I too presumptuous?] KAKA not a word of reason or rationale. What would Israel gain from PURPOSELY further alienating the civilians living just a click from its northern border?

"Uppity natives." Except that those paticular natives have for the most part [barring the last 18 years] have always been kind to Israel.


"The natives that are fighting Israel." Except that Hezbollah is not native to the region. It began in upper Beka'a with the manipulation of Iranian Intel. The south [the Muslims anyway] were AMAL through and through until the mid 80s.

"Why doesn't Rachamim go over them himself?" I guess you missed the part about a month ago when I did just that. See, I am now on R and R after my second rotation up north. I was last north of Ta'ibeh. In fact, I'll be getting back on the bus in 3 days for another tour of lovely Lebanon.

"Rachamim could flatten a few evil Arab villages." I am Infantry, no flattening here.
 
"Collective punishment...colinial era....Iraq...and so on." And yet Mr. [or am I too presumptuous?] KAKA not a word of reason or rationale. What would Israel gain from PURPOSELY further alienating the civilians living just a click from its northern border?
You're telling me that all the bombing in beirut etc was all military targets? :rolleyes:
 
Sleater: "All the bombing in Beirut was military targets?" Simply take out a good street map of Beirut [they do exist-smile] and plot the IAF and IDF Naval strikes there. With the exception of 4 in a christain area north of the city, where Lebanese Regulars had a base that concerned us, only southern Beirut and its suburbs have been hit. This is Hezbollah Central. Their organizational h.q. is there is a rather large compound. They have extensive underground bunkers throught the area, and so on...

TAE: It has been for soem time. Hezbollah has made it so. the official decleration did not change anything on the ground.
 
rachamim18 said:
In fact, I'll be getting back on the bus in 3 days for another tour of lovely Lebanon.

.

Well I fucking hope you get yours seeing as your an active party to mass murder and the ongoing subjecation of millions.
 
Kaka: What a lovely thought. Lucky for me though, aside from a district court in Morocco, and pisant court in London, noone else will ever think so. Tell me though, does your heart bleed for the Israelis who have died from Hezbollah?
 
rachamim18 said:
TAE: It has been for soem time. Hezbollah has made it so. the official decleration did not change anything on the ground.
Fuck off. You are killing women and children. Declaring 3 years olds to be terrorists does not change reality. You are a war criminal if you go into battle considering every Lebanese you encounter to be a valid military target.
 
TAE: We do not consider "every Lebanese we eoncounter to be a valid target." To the contrary, if we had we would have erased Hezbollah in about a good week.
 
rachamim18 said:
Sleater: "All the bombing in Beirut was military targets?" Simply take out a good street map of Beirut [they do exist-smile] and plot the IAF and IDF Naval strikes there. With the exception of 4 in a christain area north of the city, where Lebanese Regulars had a base that concerned us, only southern Beirut and its suburbs have been hit. This is Hezbollah Central. Their organizational h.q. is there is a rather large compound. They have extensive underground bunkers throught the area, and so on...
Not so: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5186140.stm

Israelis are targetting the civilian infrastructure as well.
 
rachamim18 said:
TAE: We do not consider "every Lebanese we eoncounter to be a valid target." To the contrary, if we had we would have erased Hezbollah in about a good week.
Then explain this quote from the link a few posts up:

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Justice Minister Haim Ramon said.

He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops move in.
Sounds like he is encouraging the IDF to commit war crimes.
 
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