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Why capitalism needs illegal labour and migration controls

JoeBlack

New Member
The long running thread 'Immigration .. part of neo liberalism/Thatcherism??' inspired me to write the following. Although a few of the examples are from Ireland there are also some UK ones and in any case the examples cross borders IMHO.

There is a liberal argument against migration controls that sees them simply as something illogical – a product of an irrational racist mind. This irrational racist element often exists of course but it fails to explain why they are favoured by modernist parties that proclaim themselves opposed to racism.

However if you examine migration controls in the context of the need of capital for cheap labour you can start to see the logic behind them and the reasons why ‘anti-racist’ but neo-liberal parties are often the promoters of such controls. In the Irish context this explains why the Progressive Democrats who are generally liberal on ‘social issues’ haved been at the forefront of deportations while at the same time talking of the need of the Irish economy for thousands of migrant workers.

Many western countries have both minimum wages and workplace safety legislation. Across most of the EU employers cannot require workers to work more than 48 hours each week. In Ireland where there iscurrently a very low unemployment rater employers who only just fill these minimum conditions may find that they are always short staffed as workers move on to better jobs as soon as they become available. This will tend to force them to raise wages above the legal minimum to try and hang onto workers.

Of course employers respect for the law only holds if they think breaking it will be discovered. Obviously workers who are aware of their rights will be inclined to report any employer who breaches them – often back pay etc can be gained by doing so. But if employers could find workers who are unaware of their rights and/or afraid for one reason or another to report abuses then employers may well risk under paying them or not observing health and safety legislation.

The main source of such labour are migrant workers who are either ‘illegal’ (have no right to work or even be in the country) or who are insecure because their residency or work rights are very restricted. This can mean they are forced to work ‘illegally’ or as is common in Ireland that their employer holds their work papers and because of this is able to keep them isolated, perhaps right down to accommodating them in isolation from other workers.

In the last while we have seen proof of this sort of exploitation of migrant workers in Ireland. GAMA construction were discovered to have employed hundreds of Turkish construction workers who were only receiving 1/6 of their legal wage – they were also forced to work up to 84 hours a week, almost double the legal maximum of 48 hours. GAMA got away with this for years by keeping the workers isolated “Gama workers slept, six to a room in bunk-beds and ate in dormitories on the building sites. They had to work for a year before being allowed to take any holidays”[1]. And when news of the conditions broke the companies reaction was to try and force the workers to move back to Turkey (GAMA held their work permits).

In February 2004 the BBC reported that “there are as many as half a million illegal migrant workers in the UK, mostly concentrated in the South East. Many more are here legally, but earn less than the minimum wage and are forced to work in dangerous conditions, with no training.[2]” In the same report a farmer admitted that “certain crops "would go unharvested" if ‘illegal’ labour was eliminated.

In March 2004 after the Moorcombe bay tragedy in England when over 20 Chinese ‘illegal’ workers were drowned in unsafe conditions Hsiao-Hung Pai infiltrated another ‘illegal’ Chinese labour group for the Guardian. Her report showed not only how tied into the economy this ‘illegal’ labour was but also how the ‘illegal’ status of the workers was used to intimidate them into silence. When she questioned the fact that another worker had not received overtime payment her boss told her "Who the fuck do you think you are? No legal status, and you think you can just go in and make a complaint? You look after your own job first! Stop minding other people's business! Remember you are illegal![3]”

This is a common pattern across the western world – it is estimated that there are 8 million ‘illegal’ migrant workers in the USA for instance. Politicians can get votes by whipping up hysteria about ‘sponging’ migrants but the reality is this very hysteria is central to keeping such workers isolated, working in unsafe conditions and working below the minimum wage.

The west’s migrations controls are not about stopping the flow of migrant labour – the governments know that significant sections of the economy depend on such labour. The laws are about ensuring that such migrants are insecure and isolated and feel unable to stand up for their rights.

--

1 Workers Solidarity see http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=463
2 Feb 10 2004 see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3475147.stm
3 The Guardian, Saturday March 27, 2004 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1179164,00.html
 
JoeBlack said:
The west’s migrations controls are not about stopping the flow of migrant labour – the governments know that significant sections of the economy depend on such labour. The laws are about ensuring that such migrants are insecure and isolated and feel unable to stand up for their rights.

--

1 Workers Solidarity see http://www.anarkismo.net/newswire.php?story_id=463
2 Feb 10 2004 see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3475147.stm
3 The Guardian, Saturday March 27, 2004 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1179164,00.html

I agree with this, full on.


Nevertheless, I'd like to be the first person on this thread to say that immigration is bad because it means that poorer countries lose the people they need the most. Nevertheless, middle class liberals love immigration because it means that they benefit from the availability of cheap nannies and cleaners.

Face facts, this thread'll go along that road by the end of the day anyway, so I might as well kick off the "debate" :)rolleyes: ) as anyone else.
 
Pigeon said:
Nevertheless, I'd like to be the first person on this thread to say that immigration is bad because it means that poorer countries lose the people they need the most. Nevertheless, middle class liberals love immigration because it means that they benefit from the availability of cheap nannies and cleaners.

Here is one I prepared earlier

The country I'm in (Ireland) was an economic basket case in the 70's and 80's. At least 30% of college graduates migrated after receiving an education that if not free was very heavily state subsidised. Unemployed was offically just below 20% but was probably nearer 30%.

Now under your theory if those who migrated had stayed at home this would somehow have made the rest of us better off. I don't see how this would have worked - all it would have done was push unemployment higher. It's not like there were job opportunities in say medicine or engineering that no one could be found for. There was a shortage of jobs not a shortage of people.

Note this is seperate from the _need_ for say doctors. The health service was (and is) crap but the state was not going to pay for extra doctors.

I suspect this is a similar situation in a lot of migrant countries today. There may be a need for doctors but the real problem is that there is no one to pay for them.

The other side of the equation is that those who migrated did some good for those who remained. Through
1. Sending money home or spending it on holidays or returning here
2. In working they picked up extra skills which they were able to return with.
3. On the individual level by getting work and accommodation elsewhere they provided resources for those who followed them. There is a huge difference arriving off the boat train at 6 in the morning with no job, no money and no place to stay and arriving with at least a friends floor to crash on and whatever work contacts/hints she may have.
4. Some got very rich and returned home to start companies that provided jobs.

The experience of migrating for work can be pretty awful but so can staying at home. And being forced to stay at home by a trendy leftie who reckons its in the best interests of the country you are trapped in isn't as attractive as you think it is. All the more so because we know the reality is that such controls result in the deaths of migrants (at least 8 deaths last week of those trying to scale the fences into Spanish terretory in North Africa),forcing others into the arms of people smuggling gangsters and leaving those who manage to get in much more vunerable in relation to their boss.
 
JoeBlack said:
The experience of migrating for work can be pretty awful but so can staying at home. And being forced to stay at home by a trendy leftie who reckons its in the best interests of the country you are trapped in isn't as attractive as you think it is.

My apologies, Joe- I didn't mean a word of the second paragraph, I was taking the piss out of tbaldwin, u75's very own Philip Glass, who derails any and every thread on asylum & immigration with incessant repetition of the 2 phrases used. ;)
 
Pigeon said:
My apologies, Joe- I didn't mean a word of the second paragraph, I was taking the piss out of tbaldwin, u75's very own Philip Glass, who derails any and every thread on asylum & immigration with incessant repetition of the 2 phrases used. ;)

Ah right - I wasn't sure if that was the case.

But to keep it on topic here is a useful article about recent events in Morrocco which underlines the point that unless you want an actual Berlin wall (incl shoot to kill) people will always manage to get through border controls.

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20051005123454353
 
JoeBlack said:
The west’s migrations controls are not about stopping the flow of migrant labour – the governments know that significant sections of the economy depend on such labour. The laws are about ensuring that such migrants are insecure and isolated and feel unable to stand up for their rights.

.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1179164,00.html[/url]

Dead right. The whole economy would collapse without the illegals.
 
ZWord said:
Dead right. The whole economy would collapse without the illegals.

as a socialist, I don't think I would use capital's thirst for cheap, insecure labour as an argument against immigration controls.
 
Sorry. said:
as a socialist, I don't think I would use capital's thirst for cheap, insecure labour as an argument against immigration controls.

If you pay a bit more attention you'll see that the argument is that it is the immigration controls that create the insecure part for capitals need for insecure labour. Without the controls the same labour would be more secure and less open to explotation.

As a socialist you should oppose this process
 
Sorry. said:
as a socialist, I don't think I would use capital's thirst for cheap, insecure labour as an argument against immigration controls.
But the point is that it's the illegal status of immigrants, who are still able to work, that reuslts in a slice of the labour force with no effective rights. You can definitely see this at work in the US.
 
Pigeon said:
I agree with this, full on.


Nevertheless, I'd like to be the first person on this thread to say that immigration is bad because it means that poorer countries lose the people they need the most. Nevertheless, middle class liberals love immigration because it means that they benefit from the availability of cheap nannies and cleaners.

Face facts, this thread'll go along that road by the end of the day anyway, so I might as well kick off the "debate" :)rolleyes: ) as anyone else.


Pigeon, do you think that there should be any controls on migration apart from obviously the money to travel?
 
JoeBlack said:
If you pay a bit more attention you'll see that the argument is that it is the immigration controls that create the insecure part for capitals need for insecure labour. Without the controls the same labour would be more secure and less open to explotation.
But the question which is asked on these boards/the thread you refer to is what immigration controls? Nobody in or out? asylum seekers allowed in but not economic migrants? Open borders? etc?

Editted parts in italics
 
tbaldwin said:
Pigeon, do you think that there should be any controls on migration apart from obviously the money to travel?

The "obviously the money to travel"'s a telling point.

But, essentially, no.
 
redsquirrel said:
But the question is what immigration controls? Nobody in or out? asylum seekers allowed in but not economic migrants? etc?

This isn't the question at all.

Any migration controls short of a shoot to kill Berlin wall will be evaded by large numbers of people so all the migration controls achieve is to create a pool of workers with no rights. The more severe the controls then the more such workers are forced into the hands of gangsters (to get in) and the less they will feel able to have recourse to minimum wage or health and safety legislation.

The 'deserving migrant' v 'underserving migrant' debate is quite a seperate one that interests me as much as the victorian 'deserving v undeserving' poor one. That is not at all.
 
JoeBlack said:
This isn't the question at all.

Any migration controls short of a shoot to kill Berlin wall will be evaded by large numbers of people so all the migration controls achieve is to create a pool of workers with no rights. The more severe the controls then the more such workers are forced into the hands of gangsters (to get in) and the less they will feel able to have recourse to minimum wage or health and safety legislation.

The 'deserving migrant' v 'underserving migrant' debate is quite a seperate one that interests me as much as the victorian 'deserving v undeserving' poor one. That is not at all.

Again, can't argue with a word of it. Which makes it all the more sickening when New Labour fuckwads introduce their latest vile immigration bill with a pledge to stamp out the criminal gangs engaged in smuggling and trafficking: it's their policies which create the market for the people smugglers in the first fucking place! :mad:
 
JoeBlack said:
This isn't the question at all.

Any migration controls short of a shoot to kill Berlin wall will be evaded by large numbers of people so all the migration controls achieve is to create a pool of workers with no rights. The more severe the controls then the more such workers are forced into the hands of gangsters (to get in) and the less they will feel able to have recourse to minimum wage or health and safety legislation.

The 'deserving migrant' v 'underserving migrant' debate is quite a seperate one that interests me as much as the victorian 'deserving v undeserving' poor one. That is not at all.
That's still an argument about immigration controls it's just in that case you're arguing for no immgration controls. Actually I agree with the last paragraph and think the immgration deabte would be far more useful if it concentrated on what actual measures we can/should take in the here and now rather than an argument about no borders/whatever.
 
And how do middle class radicals go about trying to persuade the lowest sections of the British working class, such as myself are a part, doing unskilled work, to support immigrant labour, illegal or otherwise?

At work my views certainly don't get much shrift among my workmates. A lot see migrant workers, including an African working on the shift as not welcome, and not wanting to be "swamped" and "taken over". I have remonstrated with one particular cunt who came out with racist remarks loudly one night to make the African lad hear the abuse. that was not on, and I told the peabrain how much of a bastard he was. This is largely shite, the "taking our jobs" argument, but considering their other views on the other hand (which I have respect for) are about suspicion of left politics are mainly due to middle class radicals not really appreciating the kind of lives and insecurity that unskilled workers have. And they are quite right to have those concerns, considering how crap USDAW is, but it is sad that among my workmates they see immigrant workers as being a major problem rather than seeing them as being potential allies.
 
Ryazan said:
but it is sad that among my workmates they see immigrant workers as being a major problem rather than seeing them as being potential allies.

Competing for Jobs and Housing is pushing down wages and pushing up house prices and rents.
So it's not hard to understand your workmates views. And it hardly helps that the Liberal Left talk such unbelievable shit on the issue.
Totally ignoring the different consequences for different classes of mass migration and also ignoring the international consequences.
 
tbaldwin said:
Totally ignoring the different consequences for different classes of mass migration
Do you mean "ignoring the different consequences of mass migration on the different classes" or "ignoring the different consequences arising from the different types of mass migration"? I'm guessing the first but just wanted to be sure.
 
JoeBlack said:
If you pay a bit more attention you'll see that the argument is that it is the immigration controls that create the insecure part for capitals need for insecure labour. Without the controls the same labour would be more secure and less open to explotation.

As a socialist you should oppose this process

I don't think that was Zword's argument. Certainly 'the economy would collapse without illegals' sounded very close to the SWP's argument:

Socialist Worker February 2005 said:
These forces will not be placated by Clarke’s “toughness”. The right wing UK Independence Party responded to Labour’s policy announcement this week by launching an anti-immigrant poster campaign with the slogan “We Want Our Country Back”. Blair and Clarke know that the Daily Mail and BNP are talking rubbish. They have read the home office research that shows migrants bring a net gain of £2.6 billion every year to the British economy.

And they can be in no doubt that huge chunks of Britain’s economy, especially in London, would simply grind to a halt without migrants. It’s not just hospitals and schools. Agriculture relies heavily on migrants to fill its low paid and insecure jobs. The IT sector desperately seeks workers from India in particular.

I would also disagree with the chronology. Mass immigration is a result of insecure working environments, rather than the cause of.
 
redsquirrel said:
Do you mean "ignoring the different consequences of mass migration on the different classes" or "ignoring the different consequences arising from the different types of mass migration"? I'm guessing the first but just wanted to be sure.
Both.
 
I don't think that recognising that large sections of the economy could not function without "illegals" or indeed other doing "fiddle" or "cash in hand" work supports the explotation of "illegals", other immigrants or indeed labour exploitation in capitalism in itself.
 
Isambard said:
I don't think that recognising that large sections of the economy could not function without "illegals" or indeed other doing "fiddle" or "cash in hand" work supports the explotation of "illegals", other immigrants or indeed labour exploitation in capitalism in itself.

It does if you're using it as an argument justifying immigration. You're accepting the analytical framework offered by capital - that we accept or reject migration on the basis of how best they can be exploited to enrich our society (or indeed a minority within that society).

That UK capitalism needs immigration to function effectively is irrelevant to me, I have no interest in how effectively British capitalists can accumulate profit. My interest is in how the immigration system is experienced by workers both indigenous and migrant (of course, capital's thirst for insecure labour is part of that, but I wouldn't consider it in the terms that the SWP does)
 
I suppose it may be easy to fall in line with what (some sections of) capital want when the desires overlap for different reasons.

I'm against immigration controls in principal, whether or not capitals needs more (casual) labour at the moment or not.
 
Isambard said:
I suppose it may be easy to fall in line with what (some sections of) capital want when the desires overlap for different reasons.

I'm against immigration controls in principal, whether or not capitals needs more (casual) labour at the moment or not.

I'm against immigration controls as well actually, in part because I think the bulk of destructive migration could be curtailed through improving working conditions across key sectors and gangmaster/recruitment agency reform.
 
Sorry. said:
It does if you're using it as an argument justifying immigration. You're accepting the analytical framework offered by capital - that we accept or reject migration on the basis of how best they can be exploited to enrich our society (or indeed a minority within that society).

That UK capitalism needs immigration to function effectively is irrelevant to me, I have no interest in how effectively British capitalists can accumulate profit. My interest is in how the immigration system is experienced by workers both indigenous and migrant (of course, capital's thirst for insecure labour is part of that, but I wouldn't consider it in the terms that the SWP does)


No wonder the SWP enjoys such high levels of support amongst the workers hm......
 
tbaldwin said:
Competing for Jobs and Housing is pushing down wages and pushing up house prices and rents.
So it's not hard to understand your workmates views. And it hardly helps that the Liberal Left talk such unbelievable shit on the issue.
Totally ignoring the different consequences for different classes of mass migration and also ignoring the international consequences.

The immigrants themselves are not to blame for this, and the reactionary views of my workmates could be changed into trying to ally with immigrant workers illegal or otherwise to then have a go at the reactionary middle classes.

I have little power over immigration, I am just one unskilled worker, but as my workmates and me too feel the consequences of it through what you have described, I still don't hold the view that immigrants are my target for blame in competing for scarce resources. I despise the liberal middle classes, but I also despise the views held by some of my workmates which is racist and extreme.
 
Ryazan said:
The immigrants themselves are not to blame for this, and the reactionary views of my workmates could be changed into trying to ally with immigrant workers illegal or otherwise to then have a go at the reactionary middle classes.

I have little power over immigration, I am just one unskilled worker, but as my workmates and me too feel the consequences of it through what you have described, I still don't hold the view that immigrants are my target for blame in competing for scarce resources. I despise the liberal middle classes, but I also despise the views held by some of my workmates which is racist and extreme.

Loads of people ive known and grew up with held what might be called extreme racist views. But in my experience a lot of it was shallow.
Time has moved on and so have most of their views.
I am not so sure if the views of people on here who think there "Anti Racists is any deeper.
 
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