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House of Lords Reform

Gmart

Gmart

Well-Known Member
So we've got a second chamber but ever since Tony had a go there's not that many people in it, and tho he says he's gonna reform it at some time, he don't seem to be in a hurry.

So what would you do? How would you create a second chamber to ensure that the House of Commons didn't mess up completely? Would you just have another House of Commons set up on Proportional Representation, or would you have something a bit different?

I would have a certain number of elders in the traditional sense, but i'd like to see a national draw made of ALL people to make up some of the chamber, thus adding the missing 'common touch' to the precedings. I'd love to see a bunch of chavs there screaming at the lords, or some single parents, mums AND dads giving them grief and all on a decent wage just to turn up. :eek:

Radical, i know, but what to do eh? :D
 
One option would be to have the main chamber (commons) elected by proportional representation and the second chamber (lords) elected by FPTP.
 
Or the other way round! Heck there are lots of methods, i like AMS!

What about drawing lots to be one of (say) 50 representatives from the public?

Probably one of the most important issues in UK politics at the moment this so i am VERY interested in what the combined intelligence here can come up with.

Something visionary i hope...
 
How about instead of a year of military service like in some countries, everyone instead does a year in government in some shape or form ? I'm sure there's more than enough work to go around. Perhaps the counties could be given far more power than they currently have.
 
Only 650 seats available in the HofL, however i like the idea, thinking out of the box...
 
Yes, the tiny size of parliament, that is why I started thinking about making the counties etc more powerful.
 
I'd first repeal the House of Lords Act 1999 and the Parliament Acts (1911 and 1949). The Asquith government cynically exploited the crisis of 1909-10 to give the Commons excessive power. The ends don't justify the means. The Lords should have consented willingly to its own abolition.

I would then appoint a Royal Commision to devise a second chamber that didn't rely on patronage or blue blood to fill its benches, and put it to the newly-restored house. The peers can then vote to abolish themselves and the Commons can face a second chamber with teeth: namely in the form of a veto.

My own preferred model would be 100 senators elected on 10 year terms, and forbidden from seeking re-election and from being members of a political party. Elections for half the house would be staggered every five years to ensure reasonably fast turnover.
 
Azrael said:
I'd first repeal the House of Lords Act 1999 and the Parliament Acts (1911 and 1949). The Asquith government cynically exploited the crisis of 1909-10 to give the Commons excessive power. The ends don't justify the means. The Lords should have consented willingly to its own abolition.

I would then appoint a Royal Commision to devise a second chamber that didn't rely on patronage or blue blood to fill its benches, and put it to the newly-restored house. The peers can then vote to abolish themselves and the Commons can face a second chamber with teeth: namely in the form of a veto.

My own preferred model would be 100 senators elected on 10 year terms, and forbidden from seeking re-election and from being members of a political party. Elections for half the house would be staggered every five years to ensure reasonably fast turnover.
Click to expand...

i like this i dea but how do you propose to stop corruption or pursuit of personal polictal agendas...
 
Gmarthews said:
What about drawing lots to be one of (say) 50 representatives from the public?
Click to expand...
Good a way of selection as any, but unless you force people to hang around Westminster for five years or so, you'll get lots of refusals and a form of self-selection.

If members of the second-chamber were also forbidden from taking part in government, and paid a sensible salery, you'd exclude most ambitious people. It could end up being people "of a certain age" at the end of careers and looking to contribute something. (Or venal old sods looking at a free care home for the next decade. ;) ) At any rate, much that's good about the HofL could be retained without dodgy patronage or equally dodgy inherited seats.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
i like this i dea but how do you propose to stop corruption or pursuit of personal polictal agendas...
Click to expand...
A decent but not grossly excessive salery (say £50-100,000) and a vigourous ombudsman.

You'll never abolish pursuit of personal political agendas entirely, but the ban on re-election and holding office should deter. You could also add a ban on seeking election to the Commons after your term is done.

Also, the prospect of 10 years of meditative decline with ladies and gentlemen of more advanced years should deter most Alan B'stards. ;)
 
a second house to act as a check on the main house is beyond arguement the main problem is how do you pick them the main parties would all like their stooges in there and an elected house would probably end up as situation we had with the old glc labour glc tory government both working against each other
 
Azrael said:
My own preferred model would be 100 senators elected on 10 year terms, and forbidden from seeking re-election
Click to expand...
Hmm, what would be their motivation for doing a good job if they had no chance of re-election. (That's a problem with many alternative systems).
 
OK a national draw and then an internet vote on who has done the best job and so who keeps it!! :)

Sorted! Next Week, the Media what to do...
 
TAE said:
One option would be to have the main chamber (commons) elected by proportional representation and the second chamber (lords) elected by FPTP.
Click to expand...

I think the Second House should be indirectly elected and consist of representatives of a whole series of bodies, these representatives to be over 50 years old and to sit for ten years, one tenth to be elected every year. Essentially, they should represent the experience of the various nations concerned - representatives of the Scots Parliament, our Assembly, the Six Counties, Cornwall and so on, together with ex-officials of the Unions and the CBI, religious and anti-religious bodies, organisations such as Liberty, the NSPCC and so on.

The main purpose would be to point out the limitations of legislation (they could look at bills before they were introduced into the Commons, for instance) and they would be expected to vote down completed legislation only if it was an obvious shambles, was designed merely to please hysterical jounalists or if it stupidly stepped on toes. No-one should be allowed to serve two terms (they'd be getting a bit long in the tooth anyway), and they could keep their lordly titles as a silly reward when they left for their retirement homes.
 
Rhys argues for anti-democratic corporatism, another reactionary check on the democratic impulses of the masses. The second chamber should be abolished along with all the other relics of the constitutional monarchy.

It is a pity the left so frequently restricts its demands to economic issues (minimum wage, NHS, pensions, trade unions etc) rather than lead a campaign for democracy.

It's sad that groups on the left (SWP, SP etc) shiver at the prospect of demanding an end to constitutional monarchy and all that goes with it. Instead they merely tail liberal pleas for reform, whilst yelling it's 'socialism or nothing'.
 
the house of lords were a group of people who were oppossed to the terrorist laws but because of the reforms the new labour party brought in, there concerns were ineffectual, so i would like to see the house of lords fully reinstated
 
iguzza said:
the house of lords were a group of people who were oppossed to the terrorist laws but because of the reforms the new labour party brought in, there concerns were ineffectual, so i would like to see the house of lords fully reinstated
Click to expand...

They also sought to block the equalisation of the age of consent and the repeal of Clause 28.

Your argument is a thoroughly undemocratic one.

Quite what reforms has Labour made, apart from abolishing most of the heriditary peers? Puzzled.
 
iguzza said:
the house of lords were a group of people who were oppossed to the terrorist laws but because of the reforms the new labour party brought in, there concerns were ineffectual, so i would like to see the house of lords fully reinstated
Click to expand...

I'll vote for something like that.

The old HoL worked perfectly well before life peerages. You had a group of inherently conservative (not necessarily Conservative) people that put the brakes on the Commons trying anything too excessive.

Let the life peers die out and prohibit the creation of any new ones. Have some kind of cap on the creation of new hereditary peers to limit their number to a handful every decade.

No need to worry about elections or confusing the voters. No chance to meaningfully sell honours. No threat to the fundamental primacy of the Commons.

Tried and tested. It's the British way. Down with all this continental nonsense.
 
While we're on the topic of crazy solutions why not turn the HoL into a democratic type of jury service? Have all members randomly selected from the citizenry to serve 2 year terms?
 
Perhaps, untethered,you might want to consider restricting the vote to the propertied classes, as in the 'good old days'.
 
junius said:
They also sought to block the equalisation of the age of consent and the repeal of Clause 28.

Your argument is a thoroughly undemocratic one.

Quite what reforms has Labour made, apart from abolishing most of the heriditary peers? Puzzled.
Click to expand...

while the new labour party has pursued policies that are culturally liberal, politically and lawfully they have pursued policies that have been dictatorial and totalitarian, ie guilty until proven innocent, cctv cameras, identity cards and the new road charges which involves having a tracking device in your car.
 
iguzza said:
while the new labour party has pursued policies that are culturally liberal, politically and lawfully they have pursued policies that have been dictatorial and totalitarian, ie guilty until proven innocent, cctv cameras, identity cards and the new road charges which involves having a tracking device in your car.
Click to expand...

Some people actually voted for Labour MPs. I don't recally any peer being democratically elected.
 
junius said:
Perhaps, untethered,you might want to consider restricting the vote to the propertied classes, as in the 'good old days'.
Click to expand...

I reckon the cat's out of the bag on that one.

There's still time for some common sense on the Lords, though, before Blair completes the process of turning the Mother of Parliaments into a Quisling rubber stamp for Brussels.
 
junius said:
Some people actually voted for Labour MPs. I don't recally any peer being democratically elected.
Click to expand...

Mr Blair coincidentally seems to have appointed some friends of the Party on the time-honoured democratic principle of One Million, One Vote.
 
untethered said:
I reckon the cat's out of the bag on that one.

There's still time for some common sense on the Lords, though, before Blair completes the process of turning the Mother of Parliaments into a Quisling rubber stamp for Brussels.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you would find most of the left agreeing with you on that.
 
ah yes but the muslim who dared to say that the uk was a police state for muslims was told very firmly by the pm that it was not a police state because if it was he would never have had been able to have access to the media

the pm did not address the policies that led to him being imprisoned

therefore if being able to speak to the media after being dragged out of your bed in the middle of the night in the UK with no hope of lawful redress means that democracy is alive and well in the uk ,then the word democracy needs to be redefined
 
iguzza said:
ah yes but the muslim who dared to say that the uk was a police state for muslims was told very firmly by the pm that it was not a police state because if it was he would never have had been able to have access to the media

the pm did not address the policies that led to him being imprisoned

therefore if being able to speak to the media after being dragged out of your bed in the middle of the night in the UK with no hope of lawful redress means that democracy is alive and well in the uk ,then the word democracy needs to be redefined
Click to expand...

Yep, we need a democratic revolution.
 
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