Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
Worth a read IMO. It's incredible, the lengths these nutjobs will go to to discredit actual victims and witnesses of the bombings. Let's hope this excellent article can go some way to shutting these idiots up.
7/7 conspiraloon article in today's G2 magazine
- Thread starter Stobart Stopper
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Structaural
in Chatsubo
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html
(sorry added it already.) I forgot I've paid for the digital edition so could have read it online.
(sorry added it already.) I forgot I've paid for the digital edition so could have read it online.
Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
I will try!
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
Stobart Stopper said:
Oi mrs whats happened with the mail?!
Stobart Stopper
Well-Known Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,,1806794,00.html
Here it is, I wasn't sure if it was online yet.
Here it is, I wasn't sure if it was online yet.
It's more about Honigsbaum setting the record straight about his quote that has been used by so many conspiracy theorists to support the "bomb under the carriage" theory. He was obviously misquoted by over-eager conspiracy theorists. But though he does the usual thing of labelling the practice of conspiracy theory to be just humans wanting neat answers, looking for patterns where there are none etc. he cannot (and no one has as yet) discount the train timetable anomaly, the doctored picture, the conflicting info from the Met about simultaneous explosions or the simultaneous drill being carried out (though some maintain that this was all done on paper, it's not what it sounded like on that Five Live interview at the time).
Fact is there are many unanswered questions about 7/7...but there are also many people with poor research skills and high technical ability on the internet spreading wild theories and muddying already murky waters.
So really its the usual logical fallacy to equate wild conclusions drawn by some conspiracy theorists of the "hologram plane" variety, with genuine unanswered questions about what really happened that day.
Fact is there are many unanswered questions about 7/7...but there are also many people with poor research skills and high technical ability on the internet spreading wild theories and muddying already murky waters.
So really its the usual logical fallacy to equate wild conclusions drawn by some conspiracy theorists of the "hologram plane" variety, with genuine unanswered questions about what really happened that day.
Structaural
in Chatsubo
squeegee said:
yes they have - they've all been discounted numerous times, you'll have to come up with something better. Try using your real eyes.
BootyLove said:
Not to many people's satisfaction and not just hologram theorists, though you'd think they were the only ones who dispute the official government and police line about what happened on that day.
If there were proof to discount the questions, then that would have been in Honigsbaum's article. He did not answer the questions just left them hanging. All the discounting of the questions requires every bit an act of faith as that of the conspiracy side. We cannot know for sure either way for the moment. So it's justified to ask the questions.
"Try using your real eyes"
I think I'll stick with using my brain and my........squeegeed third eye
Stobart Stopper said:
So i was reading through and wondering what you were referring to and then i saw it
On internet bulletin boards people have questioned why he is wearing blue surgical gloves in the picture (reproduced on the cover of G2)
"Basically, people were saying the picture was made up by the government to forward the campaign against terrorism in Iraq," Dadge tells me when we meet near his office in west London
So the entire article, which mentions half decent questions raised about the 7/7 bombing, ends with a story about how BBs are talking about Paul Dadge being a 'black-op' agent which makes the previous questions look stupid [to say the least] and extremely retarded.
Then the article finishes talking about Dunne. Heh, nice technique.
Well i think thats what it probably is attempting to do.
But it is the next entry that I find most alarming. Highlighted in blue is the sentence: "Mark Honingsbaum [sic] also recorded several witnesses speaking of explosions under the floor of the train."
So i agree that the website Julyseventh is misrepresenting what was said. Mark didnt record any witness' on that audio speaking of explosions. He was relaying what the passengers said happened and that they reported the floor tiles popping up during the explosion and then another explosion which they believed was another train hitting them.
So when we talk of the witness' and victims lest not forget all of them, no matter how bonkers it sounds.
Bruce Lait
"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train."
Ultimately the article is as bad as those that talk of Dadge being an agent. Its messey, jumps from perspective to perspective, includes stupid stuff and valid stuff and ends on a personal misrepresentation note.
Just like when people on here mention that some dicks run into 7/7 Survivor groups shouting out stuff and interupting meetings, it suddenly becomes anyone who questions the official version of how the days events unfolded is a dick like those other people.
Structaural
in Chatsubo
squeegee said:I think I'll stick with using my brain and my........squeegeed third eye
Yep you keep using that hallucinatory eye, it's doing you well.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
and nice that an urbanite gets a mention as well in an anti-conspiraloon article!
editor said:So all the accident investigators, police, firemen, tube engineers and everyone else who has thoroughly examined the scene are all lying and 'in on it too', yes?
Obviously I'm not gonna get into the details of our respective views on these incidents as this has been done to death here and is not the place to continue.
But no way would I suggest that people on the scene are "in on" anything. We have a major crisis situation happening and you do not expect the emergency people on the scene to be taking notes about what was happening. Saving lives was their main concern and they did that.
But as has been noted as happening often in court tesimony or any recall of a traumatic event, memories can get hazy and if you are bombarded with a pliant media telling you insistently that 7/7 happened as they say then people's natural inclination to go with the flow takes over.
There's nothing sinister about this. The only thing sinister concerns the conspiracy to cause calamity on the tube. The official line says Muslim hijakers linked to Al-Quaida set off the bombs. I don't agree. This particular conspiracy theory is not plausible to me.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
One thing that the conspiraloons haven't answered...where was the gain for 'them'?
Since 7/7 the govt has made no significant gains; the calls for ID cards have abated; the judiciary have continued to ignore the home office and rule according to the HRA and other laws, and London hasn't changed a bit - tourism is back up, the World Cup has seen millions of people out in pubs etc. If there was an MI5 backed conspiracy WHAT WAS IT'S AIM?
Since 7/7 the govt has made no significant gains; the calls for ID cards have abated; the judiciary have continued to ignore the home office and rule according to the HRA and other laws, and London hasn't changed a bit - tourism is back up, the World Cup has seen millions of people out in pubs etc. If there was an MI5 backed conspiracy WHAT WAS IT'S AIM?
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
I predict this thread will run and run just like the diareahoral utterances of the conspiraloons in fact
It's Lizard Licking Time
It's Lizard Licking Time
Structaural
in Chatsubo
Just to clarify and convince you to use your real eyes try this:
(sorry for big image but I had to make it plain)
(sorry for big image but I had to make it plain)
editor said:So all the accident investigators, police, firemen, tube engineers are all lying and 'in out it too', yes?
wait-a-minute, in light of the shenanigans of the police and Charles de menezes statements i wouldnt believe a word of what the 'authorities' say.
and this is a major problem for many people. There is no trust because the authorities have been shown to be out and out liars and manufacturers of evidence.
Do you expect people to trust the police?
I dont remember reading ANY accident investigators reports or ANY forensic reports of the happenings of the day.
Suicide bombers -- speculation
Type of bombs used ---- unknown other than speculation and mixed initial reports
Which floor of the bus did the bomb go off, top or bottom -- unknown
Tube engineers and firemen -- please show me the statements or reports so that I can stop asking all these questions.
this is just with regard to the conflicting accounts of the day.
squeegee said:
In fact, the Guardian article makes it clear that the media is anything but "pliant" .... because the journalist gave a report which was inconsistent with what you and your fellow UFO-watchers would have us believe is the official concoction. Surely if the media were "pliant", they'd be eagerly repeating the official story from MI5 press releases within minutes of the incident?
So what do YOU think happened?
Structaural
in Chatsubo
Structaural
in Chatsubo
aylee said:
Pretty obvious to me and anyone else reading this thread with more than two braincells (I'm a retouching expert btw - the greyscale average values of the two bits of the wall are almost indentical on the histogram, unlike his jacket).
Of course this upsets you as this is your main contention for a 'conspiracy'. Idiots.
Structaural
in Chatsubo
zArk said:
yep - it's probably the reflection of the wall in a puddle. The guy has not got a dead straight left arm that's for sure - his arm is in his pocket.
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