Israel in coordinated missile attacks on Gaza
- Thread starter Fez909
- Start date
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Another factor that needs to be borne in mind is that much explosive military materiel (except for, IME, rifle and pistol cartridges and some older artillery shells) isn't easily secondarily-detonated. It generally needs it's own fusing or priming material to activate it. You can shoot most "plastic explosives" without them exploding, and many of them can also be burnt (US troops used to, and possibly still do, use pellets of C4 to neat their ration stoves when they run out of hexane pellets). Some modern mouldable explosives can only be detonated by current.
untethered
For industry & decency
Hold on, chaps, someone in the Guardian has written a poem:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jan/02/katyusha-gaza-israel-poem-sean-obrien
There, that's better.
Someone in the Guardian said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/jan/02/katyusha-gaza-israel-poem-sean-obrien
There, that's better.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Wrong.
One party professes to be democratic and had a minority of the electorate vote for it, so formed a coalition, the other freely admits that it is not democratic and yet still had a majority of it's electorate vote for it in preference of another set of candidates who professed to be democratic.
Tricky things, those facts, eh?
Are you for real - or have you forgotten (again) that Hamas were elected and the western governments decided to undermine that government in favour of the unelected Fatah.
I see now that you are not for real and must be trolling.
Unless you really do not have a clue what you are talking about.
untethered
For industry & decency
I'm a bit out of my depth on this one. Is it anything to do with good Muslims and bad Muslims?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
What a sad cunt Zachor is: a fuckwit who worships at the alter of unknowing and parades his ignorance like it's some sort of trophy.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
How egotistic are you? That you can't conceive anything exists beyond your own subjective feelings is probably why you babble such laughable uninformed crap. No one gives a fuck about where you want to live in the context of this debate.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Oh this is very depressing, both events and the discussions people have about them 
I refuse to give up completely, there is always a glimmer of hope that peace will be found one day, but very little seems to have happened this century to make this goal more achievable.
As things stand there have been so many decades of horror that an end to bloodthirsty desire for revenge on both sides seems hard to imagine. It is not impossible, but it requires moderation on both sides. Israel has far more power, military might, is largely in control. If their leadership truly desires peace then they must give Palestinians some other avenues of hope. And they must demonstrate more patience than is usually shown. But this does not seem to be their mode of operation, indeed the Wests support of Israel is not in spite of their violence, but because of it, we want them to throw their weight around.
If the war on terror had been the struggle that our propaganda suggested it was, the USA would have been sensible to start off by forcing Israel to come to a 2 state agreement. Things would not suddenly become peaceful over night, but over time a major source of global ill-will and sponsor of hate on both sides, would have been diminished. But of course that was not what the war on terror was all about. By eliminating Saddam's regime and scaring other regimes into semi-obedience, we arguably need Israel to be our strong man less now. But on th otherhand Iran has come out of the middle eastern reconfiguarion a bit stronger, so Israel still has use to us.
I do not expect the religious conflict between Jews and Muslims to vanish, but without the other factors which motivate others to back a side, the tension and suffering could be vastly reduced, a war of words would still be ugly but at least there would not be so much blood and destruction.
Meanwhile whatever happened to Lebanon, the last victim of Israeli agression? It vanished from our televisions soon after the bombing ended, so I have little idea how the former 'switzerland of the middle east' is faring these days.
I refuse to give up completely, there is always a glimmer of hope that peace will be found one day, but very little seems to have happened this century to make this goal more achievable.
As things stand there have been so many decades of horror that an end to bloodthirsty desire for revenge on both sides seems hard to imagine. It is not impossible, but it requires moderation on both sides. Israel has far more power, military might, is largely in control. If their leadership truly desires peace then they must give Palestinians some other avenues of hope. And they must demonstrate more patience than is usually shown. But this does not seem to be their mode of operation, indeed the Wests support of Israel is not in spite of their violence, but because of it, we want them to throw their weight around.
If the war on terror had been the struggle that our propaganda suggested it was, the USA would have been sensible to start off by forcing Israel to come to a 2 state agreement. Things would not suddenly become peaceful over night, but over time a major source of global ill-will and sponsor of hate on both sides, would have been diminished. But of course that was not what the war on terror was all about. By eliminating Saddam's regime and scaring other regimes into semi-obedience, we arguably need Israel to be our strong man less now. But on th otherhand Iran has come out of the middle eastern reconfiguarion a bit stronger, so Israel still has use to us.
I do not expect the religious conflict between Jews and Muslims to vanish, but without the other factors which motivate others to back a side, the tension and suffering could be vastly reduced, a war of words would still be ugly but at least there would not be so much blood and destruction.
Meanwhile whatever happened to Lebanon, the last victim of Israeli agression? It vanished from our televisions soon after the bombing ended, so I have little idea how the former 'switzerland of the middle east' is faring these days.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Of course you would, but this is mostly for cultural reasons isnt it? If your background and beliefs were different, you'd want a different style of leadership that reflected your beliefs. How the Palestinian people manage their affairs should be their business. Obviously if that involves attacking others with missiles, then that gives others a stake in things and a desire to intervene. But likewise the Palestinians scope of choice in their lives is diminished when they are blockaded and subject to economic warfare, let alone arial bombardment, so Israel shapes Palestinian decisions far more than vica versa, therefore people like me apportion more blame on Israel, no matter how rabid the rhetoric of Hamas may be.
Given that you are prone to support Israel for a multitude of reasons, I would be very interested as to where, in theory, you would draw the line. Can you think of an act that Israel might commit that you would condemn utterly?
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Israeli trade unionists protest against war crimes
More anti-semites:
Self-hating Jews and Hamas apologists here:
More anti-semites:
Self-hating Jews and Hamas apologists here:
teqniq
DisMembered
Ah, but having read your rather tastless jokes on the lager thread I very much doubt that you really give a toss about the ordinary people living in Gaza either.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
How do you propose they sort out the rockets? Half of them are fired by people working on their own or not affiliated to Hamas. Hamas isn't a "government" in the way that Westerners understand it. In the conditions of Israel's starvation siege they will find it even more difficult to keep law and order than usual, and a lot of these rockets can be knocked together in someone's garage - with no hamas involvement. Some people have even suggested that a few of them are even fired by the Israelis themselves.
mate, Israel needs to sort ITSELF out without even thinking of the palestinians. Its econoymy is a mess. The tel aviv stock exchange is plunging. It is reviled throughout the world and has become a byword for pointless savagery. For all the technological achivements of Israel it is never for these reasons that Israel is on the news. Its actions deter foreign investors from coming to Israel, they deter tourism, they deter people from buying its products. Palestine is such a well-known and emotive issue that people who would otherwise take little interest in politics would avoid buying the products of Israel. Something like 16% of Israelis live below the poverty line.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/971928.html
http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/12/31/israel-gaza-economy-markets-econ-cx_ll_1231markets11.html
JR said
Hang on a moment, if a BNP supporter started shouting anti-muslim slogans on a demo, he or she would likely be attacked, it would be on you tube, reams of lefty discussion would ensue, etc, in other words it would be a big deal,
The equivocation here is not good, attacking people for suggesting criticism of Hamas should also be made by left wingers, etc is not 'a cloak used to dishonestly beat Palestinian rights supporters with' Ironical, since many who are asking for this are strong supporters and friends of Palestine.
Hang on a moment, if a BNP supporter started shouting anti-muslim slogans on a demo, he or she would likely be attacked, it would be on you tube, reams of lefty discussion would ensue, etc, in other words it would be a big deal,
The equivocation here is not good, attacking people for suggesting criticism of Hamas should also be made by left wingers, etc is not 'a cloak used to dishonestly beat Palestinian rights supporters with' Ironical, since many who are asking for this are strong supporters and friends of Palestine.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
And an Israeli cabinet full of backhander merchants, with the recent ex Pres a suspected rapist, with a bunch of half wits trying to show they're "hard" rather than facing facts and talking to anyone is your epitome of sanity is it?
Zachor, lets hope they haven't sorted the rockets, if one hits you as you are so full of shit you'll simply absorb the impact, end up the hero you already think you are
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I was talking about both sides.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Perhaps you could explain the relevance of someone either a twat or a pisstaker holding up a stupid sign?
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
You mean exactly like what's happening right now? What a bizarre non-point. I presume that the real point that lies beneath it is the notion that the "left" is morally bankrupt. Repeating this mantra at every given opportunity appears to a personal hobby of yours, it's just ironic in these circumstances because in doing so you're aligning yourself with a bunch of pseudo leftists who are actively supporting war crimes and atrocities that are being committed as we type.
Another non-sequitur. The quote you ascribe to me wasn't in relation to criticism of Hamas but to the notion that supporters of the Palestinians in the UK are hypocrites for not condemning the remarks made by an individual on demonstration over 3000 miles away. It's another bogus ploy adopted by the imperialist pseudo leftist that's neatly satirised here.
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