911cultists--your card is marked, big-time

Larry O'Hara · Oct 22, 2006

Far be it from me to pour oil on troubled waters, but...myself & some colleagues who are concerned at the debasement of history, politics & the truth that passes for the UK 9/11 'Truth Movement' headed de facto by MI5 spooks Machon & Shayler have decided to do something about it, in a virtual sense at first, by setting up a web-site devoted to engaging in 911cultwatch .org.uk even. Just thought you might be interested--ducks to avoid flying pods/holograms/missiles & so forth. 911cultists may, till now, have had the luxury of taking the battle to the (Leftist) enemy, as at the Anarchist Bookfair last year, and along the way propagating BS about 'Zionism', 'No Planes' etc.. But the rot stops here--and this is only our opening shot. Have a Nice Day!!

JHE · Oct 22, 2006

Ah well, best of luck to you. The dotty, anti-Semitic nuts deserve all the derision you can throw at them.

RaverDrew · Oct 22, 2006

Good

Despite what some people may think, I'm all for debunking the wilder, nuttier conspiracy theories that only serve to detract from any real hidden agendas.

At the same time though, a certain amount of creative speculation isn't always a bad thing. As long as these people state that their theories aren't 100% based on documented evidence, but merely their own ideas on what might be happening.

Be careful though, my one critism would be that the way you are presenting this maybe sounds more like a sort of lynch mob, rather than a serious project.

Good luck

JHE · Oct 22, 2006

Don't worry. The noose is not real. It's holographic.

Jazzz · Oct 22, 2006

Larry - I really pity you. I'd welcome anyone's genuine efforts to look into 9/11, and contribute their views, even yours, but really all that is coming across from your site is that it is a spite-fuelled, very personal vendetta against Shayler and Machon. For god's sake, why?

If I was to act in the interests of my side I shouldn't say this but I really hope for your sake that you change direction with your site and drop your silly feud - I don't see how your site will persuade anyone of anything much except its small-mindedness.

The British 9/11 Truth Campaign is certainly no 'cult' - not compared to urban75, anyway! It's far too badly organised.

Kenny Vermouth · Oct 22, 2006

Larry O'Hara said:
Far be it from me to pour oil on troubled waters, but...myself & some colleagues who are concerned at the debasement of history, politics & the truth that passes for the UK 9/11 'Truth Movement' headed de facto by MI5 spooks Machon & Shayler have decided to do something about it, in a virtual sense at first, by setting up a web-site devoted to engaging in 911cultwatch .org.uk even. Just thought you might be interested--ducks to avoid flying pods/holograms/missiles & so forth. 911cultists may, till now, have had the luxury of taking the battle to the (Leftist) enemy, as at the Anarchist Bookfair last year, and along the way propagating BS about 'Zionism', 'No Planes' etc.. But the rot stops here--and this is only our opening shot. Have a Nice Day!!

I like what you're saying, but I'm worried about your grammar.

Idris2002 · Oct 22, 2006

I think it's going to go something like this.

9/11 cultists, dressed as the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: 'Have at you'.

Larry O'Hara & Co.: 'Your arm's off'.

Cultists: ''tis but a scratch'.

GeorgeEliotFan · Oct 22, 2006

it was literally just days after the thing took place that I heard people claiming 'the jews did it' even before they had managed to suss out a convenient conspiracy theory. same with the 7/7 thing

Larry O'Hara · Oct 22, 2006

Jazzz said:
Larry - I really pity you. I'd welcome anyone's genuine efforts to look into 9/11, and contribute their views, even yours, but really all that is coming across from your site is that it is a spite-fuelled, very personal vendetta against Shayler and Machon. For god's sake, why?

Our problem with them, and the cult, is political not personal.

The British 9/11 Truth Campaign is certainly no 'cult' - not compared to urban75, anyway! It's far too badly organised.

The tyrannt of structurelessness?

Larry O'Hara · Oct 22, 2006

Kenny Vermouth said:
I like what you're saying, but I'm worried about your grammar.

I know--back to lizard-school for me!!

bluestreak · Oct 22, 2006

while i don't always agree with larry, i think he's on the ball on this one. there are a fuck of a lot of questions that need answering on 911 and for the most part it seems that the so-called truth movement have nothing to offer us except the anti-semetic horseshit of shayler et al and stuff that is repeatedly proved false, or flights of fantasy so wild as to be inconceivable.

we need to throw out the bullshit and do some serious investiogative journalism, debunk the bullshit conspiracies and debunk the state lies too.

pk · Oct 22, 2006

Plus, personal arguments against the conspiranoids are to be encouraged anyway, since they're happy to personally attack victims of terror, and call the families of the dead liars and suchlike.

Shayler is a fat lying cunt, that much I do know.

pk · Oct 22, 2006

Jazzz said:
Larry - I really pity you. I'd welcome anyone's genuine efforts to look into 9/11, and contribute their views, even yours, but really all that is coming across from your site is that it is a spite-fuelled, very personal vendetta against Shayler and Machon. For god's sake, why?

If I was to act in the interests of my side I shouldn't say this but I really hope for your sake that you change direction with your site and drop your silly feud - I don't see how your site will persuade anyone of anything much except its small-mindedness.

The British 9/11 Truth Campaign is certainly no 'cult' - not compared to urban75, anyway! It's far too badly organised.

No I disagree. Most people have ignored your bollocks or just laughed at it - now is the time for people to get angry and shut you up, because incredibly some of the more gullible people are believing what you lot have to say.

Jazzz · Oct 22, 2006

pk said:
No I disagree.

I'd expect you to. You are one of the most fascist anti-fascists around. You know even less about Shayler than you do Icke, but that wouldn't make you hesitate to pour on the vitriol.

In reply to an earlier poster, if you think the state is lying about 9/11, and want to find out the truth, then you are part of the truth movement. There's people in it that are getting on with campaigning, and there's others that spend their time attacking others in it.

About the only thing that the British 9/11 Truth Campaign agreed upon is that they don't hold any particular view on what happened on 9/11, only that we don't know the truth.

Paul Marsh · Oct 22, 2006

Idris2002 said:
I think it's going to go something like this.

9/11 cultists, dressed as the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: 'Have at you'.

Larry O'Hara & Co.: 'Your arm's off'.

Cultists: ''tis but a scratch'.

In Bloom · Oct 23, 2006

Jazzz said:
You know even less about Shayler than you do Icke

I rarely agree with pk, but from his post, he knows the important bit.

pk said:
Shayler is a fat lying cunt

Shayler is a liar, a charlatan and a fucking tout. How anybody can even begin to trust that excuse for a human being just because he spent a few weeks in an open prison, I'll never know.

Loki · Oct 23, 2006

bluestreak said:
while i don't always agree with larry, i think he's on the ball on this one. there are a fuck of a lot of questions that need answering on 911 and for the most part it seems that the so-called truth movement have nothing to offer us except the anti-semetic horseshit of shayler et al and stuff that is repeatedly proved false, or flights of fantasy so wild as to be inconceivable.

we need to throw out the bullshit and do some serious investiogative journalism, debunk the bullshit conspiracies and debunk the state lies too.

^ Jazzz you didn't read this the first time did you? It's a point made time and again but selective reading syndrome seems kick in whenever it is.

Jazzz · Oct 23, 2006

Loki said:
^ Jazzz you didn't read this the first time did you? It's a point made time and again but selective reading syndrome seems kick in whenever it is.

I did read it. I'm totally bemused by it. It's the wrong way around completely.

The British 9/11 Truth Campaign is NOT saying it knows what happened, only that the official story is likely false. Shayler may have his personal theory, I may have mine, other have theirs, the point is - we don't know. There is widespread disagreement. The campaign is to find out what really happened by demanding a proper investigation and holding the US government to account.

Making out that it is somehow 'getting in the way' of finding out what really happened is just ridiculous.

TeeJay · Oct 23, 2006

Larry O'Hara said:
...But the rot stops here--and this is only our opening shot. Have a Nice Day!!

I'd be interested if you know about any links with the 'peak oil' lot as well. For some reason these two things seem to crop up together, and I find both of them creepy and suspicious in a similar way.

The other link that troubles me (and which I would rather didn't exist) was between some of these people and parts of the Green Party (eg Gosling in Bristol).

I would be good if any hidden agendas and connections could be nailed once and for all, putting a stop to any corrosive effects they have on otherwise worthwhile organisations, issues or campaigns.

bristol_citizen · Oct 23, 2006

TeeJay said:
The other link that troubles me (and which I would rather didn't exist) was between some of these people and parts of the Green Party (eg Gosling in Bristol).

I see Mr Gosling has set up a discussion forum on his Bilderberg bilge site. What are they talking about? Holocaust denial of course...

.why did so many non Jews in Germany claim they were unaware of what was happening? I will add here that non of the War time leaders mentions the holocaust in any of their post war writings...and the post war Red Cross report also fails to mention the holocaust! I wonder, how many children with their clear minds posed the question..."maybe it didn`t happen"? Or maybe it wasn`t as big as suggested by the NWO? Anyway, in polite PC conversation, this debate is off limits...I wonder why?

And anti-semitism

given that elite Jews control the media and Hollywood

http://www.bilderberg.org/phpBB2/

pk · Oct 23, 2006

Gosling's a bigger cunt than Shayler.

bristol_citizen · Oct 23, 2006

pk said:
Gosling's a bigger cunt than Shayler.

Indeed. In his Media presentation from the Brixton meeting of UK911Truth on Sunday 10th September 2006 he alludes to a jewish conspiracy at the BBC:

The fact that such an extraordinary proportion of the corporation, and other mainstream media's senior staff, are Jewish begins to look less a result of ‘fears of another Jewish holocaust’ or ‘individual merit’ and more a Pro-Israeli, anti-Arab bias which has urgently to be corrected

camouflage · Oct 23, 2006

Larry O'Hara said:
Far be it from me to pour oil on troubled waters, but...myself & some colleagues who are concerned at the debasement of history, politics & the truth that passes for the UK 9/11 'Truth Movement' headed de facto by MI5 spooks Machon & Shayler have decided to do something about it, in a virtual sense at first, by setting up a web-site devoted to engaging in 911cultwatch .org.uk even. Just thought you might be interested--ducks to avoid flying pods/holograms/missiles & so forth. 911cultists may, till now, have had the luxury of taking the battle to the (Leftist) enemy, as at the Anarchist Bookfair last year, and along the way propagating BS about 'Zionism', 'No Planes' etc.. But the rot stops here--and this is only our opening shot. Have a Nice Day!!

"To oppose is to maintain"

-LeGuin.

don't feed the dichotomy.

editor · Oct 23, 2006

Jazzz said:
The British 9/11 Truth Campaign is NOT saying it knows what happened, only that the official story is likely false.

You're either deluded, brainwashed or a liar.

Their site is stuffed full of emphatic claims and links to all the usual loony evidence-free shit about exploding towers, demolition etc:

90 minutes of pure demolition evidence and analysis, laced with staggering witness testimonials...or the first time, see and hear the massive explosions at the base of the towers causing clouds of dust to rise up from street level before each tower fell.

Get a grip Jazzz and stop this weird denial.

editor · Oct 23, 2006

pk said:
Gosling's a bigger cunt than Shayler.

That nutter started pestering me recently when I told him that I didnt want any more of his fucking 9/11 fruit'n'nut spams.

pk · Oct 23, 2006

What would he want with a disgraced former MI5 worker anyway?

What does any of that have to do with green politics?

I'm deeply suspicious about his agenda, smacks of the typical anti-semitic shite the "truth-seekers" are known for promoting.

Jazzz · Oct 23, 2006

editor said:
You're either deluded, brainwashed or a liar.

Their site is stuffed full of emphatic claims and links to all the usual loony evidence-free shit about exploding towers, demolition etc:
Get a grip Jazzz and stop this weird denial.

Those are things to be considered and discussed. But there is no official position. The campaign seeks to encompass any view that a proper investigation needs to take place.

One voice

The campaign recognises that there is a diverse range of opinion amongst 9/11 truth campaigners. We aim to unite opinion from Michael Meacher MP to David Icke. The campaign does not endorse any one presentation of the evidence or individual. What we do say is when taken in totality the evidence overwhelmingly supports the need to reopen 9/11. The greatest challenge is lack of public awareness and debate of this evidence and promoting this awareness and debate is our primary purpose.

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=370

bluestreak · Oct 23, 2006

you're not going to get "one voice" whilst some of the biggest names are blaming the entire fucking jewish race.

you're not going to convince people by pointing out wonderful pieces of evidence that are repeatedly proved wrong or fake.

and everytime someone hears about hologrammatic planes, accusations of collusion and lies thrown at the parents of the dead the so-called truth movement shows itself up time and time again.

everyone knows there are questions, but the answers we're given from our so-called seekers of truth tend only to be the answer of the question is "what didn't happen?"

editor · Oct 23, 2006

Jazzz said:
Those are things to be considered and discussed. But there is no official position. The campaign seeks to encompass any view that a proper investigation needs to take place.
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=370

Right.

So you'll take one quote off their message board that backs up your claim while completely ignoring all their words to the contrary from their front page and elsewhere on that site, yes?

That head-in-the-sand mass-denial is about par for you and the whole (guffaw) 'truth movement': if it fits you embrace it as the truth, if it doesn't you ignore it.

So why are you ignoring all the other bonkers fruitloopery shit on that board?

Let others confuse Zionist with Jew and shout anti-Semite till it becomes meaningless. The hands of Zionists are all over this crime. It is not "Jews" any more than it is "Americans", though the guilty may be both or either or neither. It is Zionists and their Christian fundamentalist friends with their insane plans who are behind 9/11 and the sooner we start shouting it the better...

Yes I get the feeling that the towers didn't burn as well as expected and were in danger of being extinguished by the firefighters, so had to be demolished early....

The same people who designed and built the towers also blew the fuchers up...David Rockefeller

And so it goes on and on and on. The site's stuffed to the brim with the same old evidence-free tinfoilery.

editor · Oct 23, 2006

Oh, and Popular Mechanics seems to sum up the futility of attempting rational debate with conspiraloons pretty admirably:

Demonization
The 9/11 conspiracy theorists have an eternal problem: In every field where they make claims, the leading experts disagree with them. The only solution is to attack these authorities early and often...

The American public has every right to demand answers and all too many reasons to lack confidence in the government. Sadly, in such a climate, the fantasies of 9/11 conspiracists provide a seductive alternative to facing the hard facts and difficult choices of our time.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4199607.html

911cultists--your card is marked, big-time

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