Is DnB the new Punk?

milesy said:

is enduser breakcore? i've got a couple of his tracks, they're alright. some breakcore i've heard seems to be all over the place just for the sake of it, whereas the enduser tracks i've got seem to have some sort of direction/structure to them, and a bit of a groove. haven't heard enough breakcore to form a real opinion either way though.

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Yeah, he'd definitely count as breakcore.

I wouldn't class Rupture as breakcore cos I like him.
Crap like Bong Ra is breakcore.

Orang Utan said:

I wouldn't class Rupture as breakcore cos I like him.

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A lot of what he plays is breakcore. Look on his blog, he'll tell you himself.

You sound like me talking about indie music there - 'that doesn't count as indie because it's not shit.'

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:

Well I can't claim not to be a hand-waggling pogoing whiteboy, so I guess you've got me there.

I'd suggest you try one of the mixes by DJ/Rupture though. For me he's the one DJ who really does push it beyond the stoopid noize and do something interesting, although it's only breakcore in parts. Minesweeper Suite or Low Income Tomorrowland are both excellent.

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Cheers for the recommendations. Have to give them my best open-eared listen - there's nowt wrong with the idea of harder and faster sounds, just the lousy execution in most cases.

Anyone found any genuinely good Dubstep by the way? Too much of the stuff I've been listening to sounds like anemically-developed dub or suffers from 'so what's new?' syndrome?

And - despite all the slagging off- I must remember not to (ahem) overconsume at the next Unsound and end up doing that embarrassing, frantic hand-waggling dance meself...

Try Skream or Vex'd, are both pretty good.

I'm still a bit unsure about Dubstep though. It seems a little bit samey to me after a bit. I've heard good moments more than anything.

Gutterbreakz is a good blog with lots of free downloads on.

tarannau said:

Cheers for the recommendations. Have to give them my best open-eared listen - there's nowt wrong with the idea of harder and faster sounds, just the lousy execution in most cases.

Anyone found any genuinely good Dubstep by the way? Too much of the stuff I've been listening to sounds like anemically-developed dub or suffers from 'so what's new?' syndrome?

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Skream, Digital Mystics, Vex'ed, Plastician.
I heard some amazing stuff last night but was too drunk to remember it.

Oh, and listen to this: http://incoming.delsin.org/DelsinNewSeasonMixSpring2006.mp3

It's neither dubstep nor breakcore, but it's wicked

the first minute of that mix doesn't make me want to stay listening to the rest of it.

milesy said:

the first minute of that mix doesn't make me want to stay listening to the rest of it.

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Yeah, but you didn't like a Carl Craig mix, so that automatically disqualifies you from making any musical judgements

well i've downloaded that mix and skipped through it...jesus - you have the cheek to tell MustyGusset that the music he plays is boring and yet you think that mix is good?!?!?.

if i'd have listened to any more i would have fallen asleep

I quite like a bit of DnB, but I've not heard of most of the artists on this thread... nevermind heard anything by them.

*goes off to listen to punk punk*

tarannau said:

Anyone found any genuinely good Dubstep by the way? Too much of the stuff I've been listening to sounds like anemically-developed dub or suffers from 'so what's new?' syndrome?

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Yeah, I've not really seen the appeal in most of it, but this mix:
http://www.noir.org.uk/dubstep/mix/other_radio_shows/DMZ_-_Kiss100_Tayo_-_03-01-06.zip
by the DMZ krew made me stay up way too late the other night; couldn't stop listening to it once I'd started. Very, very much enjoyed it... turn the bass way up. Can suddenly see the appeal of skunked out skanking all night to that shit.

Dunno if it's improved or my ears have just come round to it (or that mix just happens to push the right buttons for me), but i enjoyed that a lot more than most of the stuff I've heard so far... caught a live PA a couple of years ago by all the croydon horsepower crew (who were playing before the bug as far as i recall), & it was like "yeah, ok, interesting for 2 mins, but i'm bored now", which was a shame as I'd been quite hopeful about 'em.

<might wade into the breakcore debate, or might just stand clear & observe>

milesy said:

well i've downloaded that mix and skipped through it...jesus - you have the cheek to tell MustyGusset that the music he plays is boring and yet you think that mix is good?!?!?.

if i'd have listened to any more i would have fallen asleep

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I knew you wouldn't like it - I was suggesting it to tarrannau anyhow.
Hourses for course innit.
Have a listen to this then:
http://www.thegiantredstfu.com/things/RyanBlackman_FarFromTheSun.mp3

how did you know i wouldn't like it? are you calling me predictable?!?!

i have a wide and varied taste in music i'll have you know.

and tarannau just PMd me to say that he agrees with me, that mix is dull and yubbish

that new mix sounds a bit more promising

Iam said:

Surely this is covered under the continuous protestations that London is, in fact, owed by everywhere for everything?

Didn't you know, even all those American inventions originally came from London.

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fwiw, I like breakcore and all that 'cos I get a little bit bored with dnb and want summat different. And anyway, it takes me back to my metal roots

Anyone heard that "oi" dnb tune?

then there was lemon d's generation vex

baron has come from a punk rock background

that "bullshit" tune has got some political lyrics in it too...

up dnb!

tarannau said:

I actually agree with Orang on this one.

Breakcore is shitly deconstructed drum and bass, added to the worst excesses of breakbeat, designed for well off folks to stick their be-goatee'd heads up their arses to, nodding about the challenging and 'experimental' beats.

90% of the stuff I've heard is wankety wank wank. No soul, no real bass presence - it should be about the one , not about making some 'challenging' grunts to ineffectually wave your hands about to. There's no sense of jungle's early passion, down-low hip swinging goodness, about Breakcore.

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Amen! (Obviously, sped up and chopped in an unlistenable way)

Tarannau, you really do seem to have your own be-goatee'd head shoved up your arse when it comes to your description of breakcore. If anything, breakcore can be considered a response to the po-faced, "maturity" that overcame a lot of the dance scene in the late 1990's, where it cleverly jettisoned everything that was fun and began to take itself far too seriously. Something evidenced by the misery of most of the local techno nights in Dublin, with exactly the sort of chin stroking boring cunts you describe standing around and nodding to whatever vague sense of being challenged they find in some bog standard techno thats being ploughing the exact same furrow for a decade. Then the miserable cunts go home and send emails into lists like IE Dance moaning that someone stood on their toe. Christ.

Then there's the drum and bass scene, a bunch of samurai burying their heads in the sand at events that will eventually end up in their own bathroom given the shrinking appeal. Now give me a breakcore night, any day in this town. Woooow...people. are. actually. dancing. and being. friendly. There is a dangerous veering towards Nathan Barleyism - but thats avoided by a healthy dose of cynicism, irony and self awareness. if anything the breakcore UK scene has started to bore most people I know, because it increasingly veers on Nathan Barleyism, with the likes of Shitmat barely bothering to deliver a set, and the notion of "wrong music" being used to pass off all sorts of shite live. There are two sets witin breakcore, and even a divergence within that. the wrong music spectrum, is gabberesque nonesense that does not take itself seriously. then theres the planet mu wing of things, and both of these crossover artists and styles not surprisingly. Your sweeping statements do both about as much justice as a someone using 2 Unlimited as a strawman for the whole rave scene.

Hilarious that some of the best drum and bass tracks Ive heard recently have been by breakcore artists - such as Exile or Panacea. Wheres the bass? Wah?!

my answer to original question - non

Antrophe said:

Now give me a breakcore night, any day in this town. Woooow...people. are. actually. dancing. and being. friendly.

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yes. this only happens at breakcore nights

only there

nowhere else

Rollem said:

yes. this only happens at breakcore nights

only there

nowhere else

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Don't you read? In comparison to DnB nights/the usual techno night in Electric City, and this town being Dublin - I'll take a breakcore night any day. Now there are plenty of places that play decent party music, from Artic Monkies to Miss Kitten - but that is a different conversation, and a different form of musical consumption. When it comes to gigs, club nights - yes Breakcore.

janet and john rock

Antrophe said:

Don't you read?

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yes i do thank you.

and my statement of "nowhere else" was not a back handed reference to the likes of the local ritzy's disco playing girls aloud to bloody loud.

you dont like sweeping generalisations you say tarannau was making yet, you are more than happy to say that dnb events / nights don't provide the same state of affairs you prevosuly listed i.e. people actually dancing and being friendly.

they do

Before this rapidly disintegrates into a

yes they do
no they dont
yes they do
no they dont

......eh, which one was I again?

I'll simply restate what I said with some of the important bits highlighted.

In comparison to DnB nights/the usual techno night in Electric City, and this town being Dublin - I'll take a breakcore night any day.

I'm sure wherever you are has a larger population and more vibrant techno/dnb/electro scenes, but here for me at least at the moment breakcore nights are the most fun to go to.

I love both drum n bass and breakcore but I find myself leaning more and more to breakcore and not because i'm a po faced cunt or whatever it was that's been described. What i've always found with the dnb scene by and large is the sort of bullshit attitude you have to put up with at so many events. The only place i've gone to where there's drum n bass and no attitude is unsound, everywhere else i've been it's boh this boo that, people giving you shit cause you accidently barged into them or stepped on their foot and you have to suffer the continued splutterings of an mc who never shuts the fuck up so you can actually hear the tune and they're not even good, again the only mc i've ever come accross who shuts up and is any good is the mc at unsound.

I was in a chat room yesterday on kunninmindz.com as my mate does a show on there and all you get are people going ez, boo, big up yourself there's no actual conversation, and when I mentioned breakcore these people were like what the fuck is that? what ya chattin about and I actually got kicked out in the end because I dared post a link to some breakcore and I asked some people about producing it, bassline smith being one of them and I just got met with a barage of attitude or . I do like drum n bass but the attitude at events just puts me off more n more now and apart from people on the Evol Intent roster and artists like Noisia the music just sounds a bit samey.

The breakcore scene on the other hand is alot more welcoming I find, I think it's cause people actually come more for the love of the music rather than 'representing their crew'. I don't listen to music to dance to as such I mean yeah i'll nod my head and have the odd dance but I listen to it more for the pleasure of listening to it and listening to what the artist is trying to achieve. When I went to a planet mu night where Venetian Snares played it was one of the best parties i've been to, there was actually a mosh pit which was mad. I can see why people think breakcore is pretentious but it's really not, it's just people doing different things with music (Venetian Snares classical music album) or people just fucking about and taking the piss.

the attitude at drum and bass nights can be quite off-putting, yes. too many people thinking they have to give it screwface and attitude, but that's not everyone at every event, just an unfortunatly noticable minority. there's quite often threads on DOA moaning about the tossers you get out. but i don't equate saying "boh" and "boo" as neccesarily having attitude, it's just another way of saying "hooray", innit?

and i suppose with dnb events the crowd varies depending on what type of night you go to...

milesy said:

the attitude at drum and bass nights can be quite off-putting, yes. too many people thinking they have to give it screwface and attitude, but that's not everyone at every event, just an unfortunatly noticable minority. there's quite often threads on DOA moaning about the tossers you get out. but i don't equate saying "boh" and "boo" as neccesarily having attitude, it's just another way of saying "hooray", innit?

and i suppose with dnb events the crowd varies depending on what type of night you go to...

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Hooray sounds so much better, oh that would be so funny if that started happening at dnb nights, Hooray for this tune . I didn't intend to mean that saying boh and boo equals someone having an attitude, it just sounds twatish IMO. Yeah I agree it is a minority of people, it just puts me off going to most events that's why I love unsound cause deadlock always rips it up and the vibe is so friendly there. Speaking of DOA, I saw a post on there yesterday about someone bigging himself up for making his sales target for the month 'Big up the sales crew' Twat.

Smoky said:

Hooray sounds so much better, oh that would be so funny if that started happening at dnb nights, Hooray for this tune . I didn't intend to mean that saying boh and boo equals someone having an attitude, it just sounds twatish IMO.

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i've been known to say it on occasion when out

apologies if i sounded a bit "gruff" yesterday. wasn't really explaining myself fully.

but yeah, of course you get attitude at dnb nights. but not all of them, that was my point. i dont like generalisations. and its not exclusive to dnb events either. the moodiest night i have ever been to was a bloody garage bash for gawds sake (i know, i know, i should have never stepped foot over the threashold...but it was a mates birthday. i didnt stay long)

as for "boh" or "boo" et al. bring it on! so long as people are enjoying the music i dont care what they shout...though i might draw the line at "bravo!"

milesy said:

i've been known to say it on occasion when out

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twat

Smoky said:

Speaking of DOA, I saw a post on there yesterday about someone bigging himself up for making his sales target for the month 'Big up the sales crew' Twat.

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that's not really that different from some of the threads you get on urban though, is it?