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What is so wrong with looking after 'ones own'??

D

durruti02

love and rage!
Revo68 has suggestted to me, in a lovely manner, that it is wrong to look after 'one's own' .. qoute " .. you are a parochial socialist who wants to look after "his own", which would explain why you think closed shops and sons and daughters housing policies are progressive. Fuck off back to Royston Vasey you petty minded fuck..."

this attitude has come up a few times on urban and i think it is VERY interesting and VERY wrong and explains a lot about why the left are so small in this country ..

my reply was " ..your level of political understanding and of humanism and of humanity is ignorent and dismal .. you use 'look after their own' as an insult .. incredible.

it is this basic failure of the left to 'look after their own' .. indeed its almost total alienation from 'it's own' that is the root cause of why the left and @ are so small .

you have no understanding of the most basic processes that must be followed if we want the big prize .. of simple combination in the community and workforce ... we must start from the very very bottom .. we must NOT build our castle on sand like has always been done before .. it has been done by m/c revos many times before and it always fails .. and indeed it usually ushers in reaction .. and THIS is what i am afraid of

as i said before .. go and have kids and then tell me you don't understand what it means to look after your own .. it is not exclusive it is not reactionary it is not racist blah blah blah .. it is just simple humanity from which we can ripple out .."

and p.s. b4 anyone (yetagain) says 'this is racist',the community where i live AND and that includes my friends and THEREFORE 'my own', is mixed in race and colour and age and sexual orientation etc etc
 
You bastard durruti still think your mum is better than all the people in South America..
PS You doing anything Saturday?
 
durruti02 said:
and p.s. b4 anyone (yetagain) says 'this is racist',the community where i live AND and that includes my friends and THEREFORE 'my own', is mixed in race and colour and age and sexual orientation etc etc
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Yea them darkies are ok when you know them :rolleyes:
 
DrRingDing said:
Yea them darkies are ok when you know them :rolleyes:
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you see that is the typical fucking ignorent shit and it is simply SHIT that i expect from yer urban trendy .. are you really not capable of any thought at all??? too much skunk i imagine .. fuck off back to the drugs forum ..
 
durruti02 said:
you see that is the typical fucking ignorent shit and it is simply SHIT that i expect from yer urban trendy .. are you really not capable of any thought at all??? too much skunk i imagine .. fuck off back to the drugs forum ..
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You're a caricature of a wannabe working class plastic 'class struggle' (oh me back) anarchist.

Begone with your bigotry.
 
DrRingDing said:
You're a caricature of a wannabe working class plastic 'class struggle' (oh me back) anarchist.

Begone with your bigotry.
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you really are funny :D .. and pray what bigotrydo you refer to??
 
its because i have kids i oppose wars, its because i am black and my partner is white that i oppose racism and the guff being fuelled with scare stories about 'immigrants', that i feel i may have a slightly different concept of 'looking after our own' to you. As far as i'm concerned, the working class is international. They are 'our own'. Stop quoting the bible about 'houses built on sand' How about quoting Frederick Douglas instead. He said that those who wanted social change without struggle were 'like those who want the sea but without the violence of its waves'. You can't even make waves against xenophobic attitudes of a small but voiciforous section of British society. Fuck off and stop trying to lecture people about 'looking after our own'
 
nwnm said:
its because i have kids i oppose wars, its because i am black and my partner is white that i oppose racism and the guff being fuelled with scare stories about 'immigrants', that i feel i may have a slightly different concept of 'looking after our own' to you. As far as i'm concerned, the working class is international. They are 'our own'. Stop quoting the bible about 'houses built on sand' How about quoting Frederick Douglas instead. He said that those who wanted social change without struggle were 'like those who want the sea but without the violence of its waves'. You can't even make waves against xenophobic attitudes of a small but voiciforous section of British society. Fuck off and stop trying to lecture people about 'looking after our own'
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Think Globally act Locally anyone?
 
I think you make a good point in that for something Good to be built, you have to start somewhere. And there's a lot of talk from the left about different issues which express the same sentiment. Take nuclear weapons, for instance: Most people don't want nuclear weapons in the world, but you hear things like, "why shouldn't Iran have them if we do? We need to set an example by taking steps to reduce our stockpiles first."

Not the greatest analogy by a long shot, but I think the point still stands. The problem with this kind of thinking, though, is that when we're talking about 'looking after our own' in the terms you describe, we miss a fundamental point. The very people who need the most help are the ones who don't have any of their own to look after them. It's alright saying, "yeah but you've got to have a good foundation to build on for a better world" or whatever, but what about those who are suffering here, and now? Fuck 'em? Aye, fuck em! there'll be a better state of affairs in future which will stop this happening. Collateral damage, eh?

Another point: when you 'look after your own', there never comes a point when you decide 'your own' are doing OK now, and you'll start looking outward towards more needy people. There is always a need of more for 'you own', unless you're one of the lucky few in the world, and they don't seem to want to stop accumulating stuff for themselves, either.
 
durruti02 said:
so what are you doing on this thread then??? i thought you might have something to say on the OP .. never mind eh:rolleyes:
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This is pretty much a crossthread / callout thread anyway, and thus entirely surplus to requirements. i was initially intrigued by the potential subject under discussion. Then, when I read it, i wasn't any more :)
 
Why did you choose that nick and why do you start so many threads with 'immigration' in the title - 16 at the last count.
 
Fez909 said:
I think you make a good point in that for something Good to be built, you have to start somewhere. And there's a lot of talk from the left about different issues which express the same sentiment. Take nuclear weapons, for instance: Most people don't want nuclear weapons in the world, but you hear things like, "why shouldn't Iran have them if we do? We need to set an example by taking steps to reduce our stockpiles first."

Not the greatest analogy by a long shot, but I think the point still stands. The problem with this kind of thinking, though, is that when we're talking about 'looking after our own' in the terms you describe, we miss a fundamental point. The very people who need the most help are the ones who don't have any of their own to look after them. It's alright saying, "yeah but you've got to have a good foundation to build on for a better world" or whatever, but what about those who are suffering here, and now? Fuck 'em? Aye, fuck em! there'll be a better state of affairs in future which will stop this happening. Collateral damage, eh?

Another point: when you 'look after your own', there never comes a point when you decide 'your own' are doing OK now, and you'll start looking outward towards more needy people. There is always a need of more for 'you own', unless you're one of the lucky few in the world, and they don't seem to want to stop accumulating stuff for themselves, either.
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Good post..
 
nwnm said:
its because i have kids i oppose wars, its because i am black and my partner is white that i oppose racism and the guff being fuelled with scare stories about 'immigrants', that i feel i may have a slightly different concept of 'looking after our own' to you. As far as i'm concerned, the working class is international. They are 'our own'. Stop quoting the bible about 'houses built on sand' How about quoting Frederick Douglas instead. He said that those who wanted social change without struggle were 'like those who want the sea but without the violence of its waves'. You can't even make waves against xenophobic attitudes of a small but voiciforous section of British society. Fuck off and stop trying to lecture people about 'looking after our own'
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how can you look after others if you do not look after your own? and whats with the accusations of zenophobia mate??? .. it is precisely this that is wrong .. that to look after 'ones own' is in some way zenophobic .. how??

p.s. i like that frederick douglas qoute .. of course the w/c is international .. at the moment though it is powerless in this country cos we do NOT start from the bottom ..
 
Fez909 said:
I think you make a good point in that for something Good to be built, you have to start somewhere. And there's a lot of talk from the left about different issues which express the same sentiment. Take nuclear weapons, for instance: Most people don't want nuclear weapons in the world, but you hear things like, "why shouldn't Iran have them if we do? We need to set an example by taking steps to reduce our stockpiles first."

Not the greatest analogy by a long shot, but I think the point still stands. The problem with this kind of thinking, though, is that when we're talking about 'looking after our own' in the terms you describe, we miss a fundamental point. The very people who need the most help are the ones who don't have any of their own to look after them. It's alright saying, "yeah but you've got to have a good foundation to build on for a better world" or whatever, but what about those who are suffering here, and now? Fuck 'em? Aye, fuck em! there'll be a better state of affairs in future which will stop this happening. Collateral damage, eh?

Another point: when you 'look after your own', there never comes a point when you decide 'your own' are doing OK now, and you'll start looking outward towards more needy people. There is always a need of more for 'you own', unless you're one of the lucky few in the world, and they don't seem to want to stop accumulating stuff for themselves, either.
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agree good post .. i don't agree with the middle para .. i do not see this as a fuck the erst attitude .. i see it simpkly as creating community or unions ..

but yes your last pragraph IS the difficult bit .. of course there are dangers with this/my strategy .. but at least it gets to first base unlike the liberal@/lefty/ strategy .. at least it means we are involved .. at least it means we are part of the process instead of preaching from the outside like the above mentionned

.. i would like to think that, that what you and i would agree is needed, would automatically flow from strong supportive communitys .. that is what has happenned in the past ... but that would be the totally 'spontaneous revolution' view .. i think that probably this is where revolutionaries have a role ...
 
DrRingDing said:
No just this odd group of people called 'socialists'. :(
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Yeah the kind of person who insists there a Socialist and an Internationalist and then ignores the effect Economic Migration has internationally....I dont think we need any more Socialists like that thanks.....
 
tbaldwin said:
Yeah the kind of person who insists there a Socialist and an Internationalist and then ignores the effect Economic Migration has internationally....I dont think we need any more Socialists like that thanks.....
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yeah bring back comrade Stalin - send 'em to the gulags :p
 
A very humane post, however, the problem now is that those 'we may need to help' is inexhaustible, modern communications meaning that ultimaletly anyone suffering or even unhappy in another country can physically come to this country, whether they they would be allowed to is another matter. Of course much of the suffering is caused by the West and its economic policies, but that shouldn't detract from the facts and the likely consequences of such a phenomenon. I also read somewhere that over 20'000 Dutch Somalians have moved to Leicester in the last few years after the Dutch tightened up their laws on religions, etc. Apparently, they were seen as a welcome development by the council and the M.P Keith Vaz. No mention of the strain on resources for those already in the city: on schools, the NHS, housing, etc. Unless you are for open borders and the massive majority of the population are not, something must be done, i'm not sure what but the far left proscriptions on here are certainly not the answer or its its typical knee jerk accusations of ' wacism' and xenophobia to anyone who challenges their fantasies. We particuarly shouldn't take any lectures from the SWP, who through their front group: the STWC are silent on the genocide in Darfur, a situation which can only lead to more refugees, etc.
 
treelover said:
We particuarly shouldn't take any lectures from the SWP, who through their front group: the STWC are silent on the genocide in Darfur, a situation which can only lead to more refugees, etc.
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I couldn't see a group like the SWP being "silent" on such an issue, so I did a little search:

Darfur: foreign intervention will mean more pain

Disaster in Darfur

Tragedy in Sudan

There's three for starters. Google reckons there are 46 articles on the SWP website. I wouldn't know about their paper having never bought it. I'd be inclined to guess there exists articles which have not been published on the web that have appeared in the paper.

Why don't you stop banging on about the left until you can do something as simple as a search?
 
Saying we should be truly international is great and groovy, but how does that tally with multiculturalism? After all, multiculturalism isn't society as one big groovy funky whole, it's lots of separate entities with allegiances more or less to another country of origin.

If you really want to be internationalist you should also oppose multiculturalism, and support multiracialism. IMO
 
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