Business leaders seek 'unlimited immigration' from new EU states

hey i'm sorry .. i'm going soon ... but i just had to throw this in ..

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article1222597.ece

Business leaders seek 'unlimited immigration' from new EU states
By Philip Thornton, Economics Correspondent
Published: 30 August 2006


" ... The leaders of Britain's biggest businesses employing millions of people have called on the Government to allow unlimited immigration from Bulgaria and Romania when the two former Eastern Bloc states join the European Union next year.
They said any break in the "open door" policy that has seen hundreds of thousands of migrants from Poland and other eastern European countries come to Britain would be a major mistake. The business leaders have put their names to a statement issued by the Business for New Europe Group (BNEG), a pressure group calling for further integration...."

" ...David Frost, the director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, said that the recent rise in unemployment to a six-year high was flashing a warning signal about the impact of migration of the indigenous workforce. "We have seen unemployment rise in the UK and clearly we don't want to be in a position where we are seeing migrant labour coming in and getting the jobs and supporting the great number of local people have not got jobs," he said."That's not a recipe for success. It will not be a cohesive society." He blamed the Government for failing to provide an education system that enabled Britons to find work in the modern labour market...."


Martin Sorrell, the chief executive of WPP, the world's largest advertising business, said the 2004 enlargement had been a "great success". "The Polish plumber has become a much-loved feature of British life," he said..."


p.s. also interesting stuff in Voice today about how black and commonwealth would be emigrants are being side lined for eastern europeans by the UK state

Hardly surprising, they love having a ready supply of casual labour.

Which would indicate that the fact that they are able to use anybody as such is the problem, surely?

In Bloom said:

Hardly surprising, they love having a ready supply of casual labour.

Which would indicate that the fact that they are able to use anybody as such is the problem, surely?

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absolutely .. but a fair few SW types on here have alleged that

1) immigration is much exaggerated
2) the issue is not material but ideological and we must concentrate on opposing racism
3) immigration is good for the country ( and i get called a nationalist! )
4) immigration is about peoples desire to travel NOT hard economics as is illustrated here ..

we agree on the solution .. more and better unions/w/c resistance to capital
we disagree, that to get there, they will need to eat some humble pie

durruti02 said:

absolutely .. but a fair few SW types on here have alleged that

1) immigration is much exaggerated
2) the issue is not material but ideological and we must concentrate on opposing racism
3) immigration is good for the country ( and i get called a nationalist! )
4) immigration is about peoples desire to travel NOT hard economics as is illustrated here ..

we agree on the solution .. more and better unions/w/c resistance to capital
we disagree, that to get there, they will need to eat some humble pie

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So Durruti, where do i fit in this nice little narrative of you standing up for the "little man" against the old dinosaurs in the SWP?

more and better unions/w/c resistance to capital

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except you mean more power to union bureacrats, the sectionalisation of the working class, closed shops and reactionary "son's and daughter's" policies for "local" housing, you also seem to define immigrants as outside the working class.

you have yet to give an an adequate response to any ofmy criticisms of these policies actually harming the long term interests of the working class and strengthening the hand of capital.

durruti02 said:

p.s. also interesting stuff in Voice today about how black and commonwealth would be emigrants are being side lined for eastern europeans by the UK state

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Yup.

Time Out reported that there is a large contingent of migrant eastern European "workers" sleeping rough in London, and the Home Office has given a charity a grant to buy them tickets to go home.

The charity is worried that they won't get a further grant.

I'm more concerned that the tickets aren't paid for by those people's countries rather than ours.

We really don't need any more migrant workers coming here and undermining wage levels of British workers. You can't blame the migrants - if the situation were reversed, we'd all be over there. But it's time for this nonsense to stop.

untethered said:

Time Out reported that there is a large contingent of migrant eastern European "workers" sleeping rough in London, and the Home Office has given a charity a grant to buy them tickets to go home.

The charity is worried that they won't get a further grant.

I'm more concerned that the tickets aren't paid for by those people's countries rather than ours.

We really don't need any more migrant workers coming here and undermining wage levels of British workers. You can't blame the migrants - if the situation were reversed, we'd all be over there. But it's time for this nonsense to stop.

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So what do you do? Make it harder for people to come here? will that stop it? or will it put them in further precariousness, further depressing wages and pouring petrol onto lil burning buntings of bigotry?

revol68 said:

So what do you do? Make it harder for people to come here? will that stop it? or will it put them in further precariousness, further depressing wages and pouring petrol onto lil burning buntings of bigotry?

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fight for the leglisation that will allow previously agreed pay structures to be enforced and adhered to.

revol68 said:

So what do you do? Make it harder for people to come here? will that stop it? or will it put them in further precariousness, further depressing wages and pouring petrol onto lil burning buntings of bigotry?

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Venezuelan workers don't have an automatic right to come and work here. Is that bigotry? No. It's just that we have a different political and economic relationship with Venezuela.

I was thinking something along the lines of leaving the EU and not participating in the single market.

I really fail to see what's bigoted about opposing a policy that causes detriment to British workers.

untethered said:

Venezuelan workers don't have an automatic right to come and work here. Is that bigotry? No. It's just that we have a different political and economic relationship with Venezuela.


I was thinking something along the lines of leaving the EU and not participating in the single market.

I really fail to see what's bigoted about opposing a policy that causes detriment to British workers.

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You answered your own question.

But cheers, now I'll leave Durruti02 to argue this out with you, afterall it's his thread.

revol68 said:

You answered your own question.

But cheers, now I'll leave Durruti02 to argue this out with you, afterall it's his thread.

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No he didn't.....


And you didn't comment on my suggestion either...

snadge said:

No he didn't.....


And you didn't comment on my suggestion either...

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He did, the idea of putting "British" workers first is bigotted nationalism.

Your suggestion is fair enough, I think it's niave though to fight for legislation, if your going to fight, fight at the point of struggle. Afterall 2 million people marching couldn't stop the Iraq war.

As I said i know of Poliosh workers who have been fighting against poor wages and higer productivity quotas, surely it's workers like that who are the first point of contact for struggle, not whinging to the government for legislation.

revol68 said:

He did, the idea of putting "British" workers first is bigotted nationalism.

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Got to love those quote marks.

"British workers" means UK citizens seeking employment within the UK. Oh my god, did I really just cut eye holes in my pillowcase?

revol68 said:

He did, the idea of putting "British" workers first is bigotted nationalism.

Your suggestion is fair enough, I think it's niave though to fight for legislation, if your going to fight, fight at the point of struggle. Afterall 2 million people marching couldn't stop the Iraq war.

As I said i know of Poliosh workers who have been fighting against poor wages and higer productivity quotas, surely it's workers like that who are the first point of contact for struggle, not whinging to the government for legislation.

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How do you ensure that a polish worker gets paid the correct rate?

I'm a welder, my NJC agreed hourly rate is £12.75 per hour, I work alongside polish welders on £7 per hour ( union reconised), I have been paid off, the poles haven't.

The excuse that the employers have is that they cannot find enough British workers to fill the vacancies so they emply migrant workers.

utter tosh.

the same way you would ensure the implementation of pay structures, struggle for it. Cos if your waiting for your union to do shit about it your fucked mate.

snadge said:

How do you ensure that a polish worker gets paid the correct rate?

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Have you considered organising together and making them pay the Polish workers the proper rate? The mainstream unions are crap but that doesn't necessarily mean that workplace action is doomed from the start.

Curse you revol68!

untethered said:

Venezuelan workers don't have an automatic right to come and work here. Is that bigotry? No. It's just that we have a different political and economic relationship with Venezuela.

I was thinking something along the lines of leaving the EU and not participating in the single market.

I really fail to see what's bigoted about opposing a policy that causes detriment to British workers.

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So if Polish migrants no longer had the legal right to work because they weren't UK citizens (and thus were coming in illegally, with no gaurantee of a home and only able to get the most informal, poorly paid and precarious work available), would that prevent them being used to undercut British workers?

How do you propose to actually stop migrants from entering the country?

In Bloom said:

So if Polish migrants no longer had the legal right to work because they weren't UK citizens (and thus were coming in illegally, with no gaurantee of a home and only able to get the most informal, poorly paid and precarious work available), would that prevent them being used to undercut British workers?

How do you propose to actually stop migrants from entering the country?

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That wasn't the question.

The question was whether the official policy of a free labour market within the EU is a good idea. I don't think it is.

How you prevent anyone subverting official policy is entirely a different matter. The most obvious answer is that you can't entirely, because we don't live in a perfect world.

untethered said:

That wasn't the question.

The question was whether the official policy of a free labour market within the EU is a good idea. I don't think it is.

How you prevent anyone subverting official policy is entirely a different matter. The most obvious answer is that you can't entirely, because we don't live in a perfect world.

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And I was arguing that anti-immigrant laws (so-called immigration controls) only make the situation worse.

revol68 said:

the same way you would ensure the implementation of pay structures, struggle for it. Cos if your waiting for your union to do shit about it your fucked mate.

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so come on, tell me how to "struggle" for it, you seem to have the answers here..


deny labour, no problem...a pole is employed.



trouble is, now that most companies are employing migrant workers they have established agencies in eu countries so employing at source.

In Bloom said:

Have you considered organising together and making them pay the Polish workers the proper rate? The mainstream unions are crap but that doesn't necessarily mean that workplace action is doomed from the start.

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people get sacked you fools...

do you understand yet, there is no protection for workers who have no contract, ie short term outage work.

It's so easy.

The workers come here and are taken on by labour supply companies.
They are hired out to factories who get a ready pool of unskilled cheap workers with no employment rights at all.

I know of two large factories local to myself that has dumped all the english workers and just use these people.

No race issue or whatever. It's just how it is.

snadge said:

people get sacked you fools...

do you understand yet, there is no protection for workers who have no contract, ie short term outage work.

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Well, being that I'm an agency worker and can be sacked immediately, with no notice and no reason at any time and half the people in my work are Polish, I'm quite how difficult it is to organise in the current circumstances. It's bloody hard work and you're putting yourself at risk doing it, but there really is no alternative, afaic. What else can we do?

In Bloom said:

Well, being that I'm an agency worker and can be sacked immediately, with no notice and no reason at any time and half the people in my work are Polish, I'm quite how difficult it is to organise in the current circumstances. It's bloody hard work and you're putting yourself at risk doing it, but there really is no alternative, afaic. What else can we do?

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I don't know, as far as I can see it's going to get worse, leglisation must be fought for, test cases maybe...

snadge said:

people get sacked you fools...

do you understand yet, there is no protection for workers who have no contract, ie short term outage work.

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Someone sacked for workplace militancy? Fuck me pink with a blue butt plug! I shall have to rethink my whole concept of class struggle now!

So how do you imagine the contracts will be enforced?

I mean it is you putting forward this solution.

revol68 said:

Someone sacked for workplace militancy? Fuck me pink with a blue butt plug! I shall have to rethink my whole concept of class struggle now!

So how do you imagine the contracts will be enforced?

I mean it is you putting forward this solution.

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I'm waiting for suggestions from people, you aren't helping with your " there is no problem, it's just you being rascist" bollox.

revol68 said:

Fuck me pink with a blue butt plug!

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snadge said:

I don't know, as far as I can see it's going to get worse, leglisation must be fought for, test cases maybe...

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How are we going to get this legislation though? And how is it to be enforced?

I genuinely can't see anyway forward besides organisation and hard work.

snadge said:

I'm waiting for suggestions from people, you aren't helping with your " there is no problem, it's just you being rascist" bollox.

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That's not what revol said though, is it?