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Please, Please Tell Me Noir..

D

Dubversion

Gorn
Enforced Holiday
since Pie Eye is going to be stinking up the flat with her fecking fantasy nonsense, i'd like to counter with a film noir / hardboiled thread.

So what are your faves? And does Point Blank count? and why doesn't Lovefilm have it?
 
Brick has the single most hardboiled scene I've ever seen. Not yet out on video though...

Bound is lovely. Much better than The Matrix and sexy to boot ;)

Can't remember any olde-noir for the moment :(


GS(v)
 
gsv said:
Bound is lovely. Much better than The Matrix and sexy to boot ;)
Click to expand...

i don't think it qualifies as noir, to be honest. It's stylised, but not in the right way, even with Joeypants in it
 
Dubversion said:
since Pie Eye is going to be stinking up the flat with her fecking fantasy nonsense, i'd like to counter with a film noir / hardboiled thread.

So what are your faves? And does Point Blank count? and why doesn't Lovefilm have it?
Click to expand...

Yes, more my cup of tea as well.

Point Blank does counts as a "Neo-noir". So far it's only out on DVD in the US.

My favourite Film Noirs (up to and including the 50's) are The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Laura, Double Indemnity, Gun Crazy, Detour, Mildred Pierce, The Lady From Shanghai, Out of the Past, The Reckless Moment, The Night of the Hunter, The Big Heat, Touch of Evil and Kiss Me Deadly.

My favourite neo-Noir films are Chinatown, Body Heat, The Long Goodbye, The Last Seduction, Point Blank, Blood Simple and House of Games
 
how about Detour?

a really dark noir film - made in the 40s (i think). i did have a copy on vid but it's mashed up now. i think you'll like it.

i would say any Edward G or Bogart film - but i'm not sure if they're Film Noir proper because i've been told by people who know more about film than i do - that they're not. :confused:
 
Reno said:
My favourite Film Noirs (up to and including the 50's) are The Maltese Falcon, Double Indemnity, Gun Crazy, Detour, Mildred Pierce, The Lady From Shanghai, Out of the Past, The Reckless Moment, The Night of the Hunter, The Big Heat, Touch of Evil and Kiss Me Deadly.
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yes. i would cite those (well the ones you list that i know anyway) but as i said someone told me that they're not Film Noir. and i don't get it.
 
foo said:
yes. i would cite those (well the ones you list that i know anyway) but as i said someone told me that they're not Film Noir. and i don't get it.
Click to expand...

I think the person who told you doesn't know their shit. ;)

Dubversion said:
i don't think it qualifies as noir, to be honest. It's stylised, but not in the right way, even with Joeypants in it
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking nothing after 1959 can count as Film Noir but Bound, while stylistically somewhat self conscious, is clearly influenced by classic Film Noir to the point where Gina Gershon and Jennifer Tilly are channeling Robert Mitchum and Gloria Grahame respectively.
 
Reno said:
I think the person who told you doesn't know their shit. ;)
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oh good!

and i'll tell him so - when i next see him.

with great pleasure :D

as a lover of (what i thought was Noir), i'm glad you reaffirmed this for me Reno.

phew, i'm not a total idiot etc. :)
 
Reno said:
Yes, more my cup of tea as well.

Point Blank does counts as a "Neo-noir". So far it's only out on DVD in the US.

My favourite Film Noirs (up to and including the 50's) are The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Laura, Double Indemnity, Gun Crazy, Detour, Mildred Pierce, The Lady From Shanghai, Out of the Past, The Reckless Moment, The Night of the Hunter, The Big Heat, Touch of Evil and Kiss Me Deadly.

My favourite neo-Noir films are Chinatown, Body Heat, The Long Goodbye, The Last Seduction, Point Blank, Blood Simple and The House of Games
Click to expand...

nothing to add, a good list
 
Reno said:
My favourite Film Noirs (up to and including the 50's) are The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, Laura, Double Indemnity, Gun Crazy, Detour, Mildred Pierce, The Lady From Shanghai, Out of the Past, The Reckless Moment, The Night of the Hunter, The Big Heat, Touch of Evil and Kiss Me Deadly.
Click to expand...
Don't confuse black-and-white with noir, Reno :p

Night of the Hunter?
Noir: no
Vom-inducing kiddie-flick: yes

Touch of Evil?
Femme fatale: check
Noir: nada (cool film though!)

I mean Kind Hearts and Coronets is as noir as Hunter, and that's just silly...


GS(v)
 
gsv said:
Don't confuse black-and-white with noir, Reno :p

Night of the Hunter?
Noir: no
Vom-inducing kiddie-flick: yes

Touch of Evil?
Femme fatale: check
Noir: nada (cool film though!)

I mean Kind Hearts and Coronets is as noir as Hunter, and that's just silly...


GS(v)
Click to expand...

By the start of the threat you couldn't think of any examples of classic film noir, but by now it seems you have turned into an expert. In regard to the films you've nixed, have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_of_the_Hunter_(film)

http://www.filmsite.org/filmnoir3.html

http://www.panbello.com/WebNoir6_List_of_Films_Noir.html

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/noir/ol-all.html

...and anybody who calls The Night of the Hunter a "vom inducing kiddie flick" is a silly twat who has no business lecturing anybody about genre definitions. :p
 
Oooooh! Genre definitions! Film Noir ! :eek: There's always some 'Sight n Sound' reader waiting to shoot you down in flames if you even try and butt in on a film thread without having a Film or Media studies degree to wave around! Personally I find it near impossible to settle on a definition of whats Noir & what isn't ? In truth I probably don't know my Neo Noir from my Carte Noir however in my world the following examples are IT!

Blue Velvet / Lost Highway / The Grifters / any film based on Raymond Chandler's novels & In the Mood for Love [Wong Kar Wai}
 
Not sure that it fits too snuggly in the " noir " being partly comedy but I love Scorsese`s After Hours , a very dark and atmospheric film .
 
Bomber said:
The Grifters
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just finished the Jim Thompson novel this was based on, can't recommend his stuff enough.

There's a superb book by Max Decharné (of the Flaming Stars) called Hardboiled Hollywood which looks at the real stories behind many of the best noir / crime movies, you find out what appalling people most of these people were (Bonnie & Clyde were pretty much sociopath scum)

very good read
 
Just wanted to mention The Naked Kiss, very noir and quite surreal in parts (the children's party for example), way ahead of its time in terms of the issues it dealt with, prostitution, police corruption and policemen as pimps, pillars of the community as paedophiles, sexually transmitted diseases and their consequences, violence towards women and small town hypocrisy.

reviews here, in case anyone doesn't know the film

http://imdb.com/title/tt0058390/usercomments

oh, did I mention the the lighting and cinematography are really fabulous?
 
Dubversion said:
since Pie Eye is going to be stinking up the flat with her fecking fantasy nonsense, i'd like to counter with a film noir / hardboiled thread.
Click to expand...
Does Mr hulot's holiday count?

It's black and white
 
hammerntongues said:
Not sure that it fits too snuggly in the " noir " being partly comedy but I love Scorsese`s After Hours , a very dark and atmospheric film .
Click to expand...


That's not "noir", that's "Yuppie In Peril". :rolleyes:

god, kids today :p
 
Dubversion said:
just finished the Jim Thompson novel this was based on, can't recommend his stuff enough.

There's a superb book by Max Decharné (of the Flaming Stars) called Hardboiled Hollywood which looks at the real stories behind many of the best noir / crime movies, you find out what appalling people most of these people were (Bonnie & Clyde were pretty much sociopath scum)

very good read
Click to expand...

Yeah! read it myself also 'Kill-Off' as well. Been meaning to dig some more of his books out some time. The link below gives a nice little list of "related movies", one or two which i must admit I haven't heard of , let alone seen?

New York Times ~ The Grifters
 
Bomber said:
Yeah! read it myself also 'Kill-Off' as well. Been meaning to dig some more of his books out some time. The link below gives a nice little list of "related movies", one or two which i must admit I haven't heard of , let alone seen?

New York Times ~ The Grifters
Click to expand...

the Grifters is one of my all time favourite films.
I've seen it perhaps 10 times and I'd happily watch it again :)
 
Reno said:
By the start of the threat you couldn't think of any examples of classic film noir, but by now it seems you have turned into an expert. In regard to the films you've nixed, have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_of_the_Hunter_(film)

http://www.filmsite.org/filmnoir3.html

http://www.panbello.com/WebNoir6_List_of_Films_Noir.html

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/noir/ol-all.html

...and anybody who calls The Night of the Hunter a "vom inducing kiddie flick" is a silly twat who has no business lecturing anybody about genre definitions. :p
Click to expand...
Ooo, Jonny Anonymous on Wikipedia thinks Night of the Hunter is Noir. Guess that's a fucking authoritative opinion then! :rolleyes:

Noir is primarily a claustrophobic urban genre. Hunter is neither claustophobic nor urban and has none of the other typical noir traits: femmes fatales, brooding menace (no the Preacher's not brooding), hardboiled dialogue. Instead it has Lillian Gish proclaiming "Children are humanity's strongest. They abide." If that doesn't make you hurl (on top of the shoddy child acting and heavy-handed "symbolism") then it just goes to show that you're as hypnotised by old Love and Hate as the uniformly idiot townsfolk.

Touch of Evil is largely Noir, but its largely rural setting puts it just outside the genre IMO. This puts me at odds with some critics - well fuck me I've a well-formed opinion all of my own!

Dub also has opinions, most of which seem to be that mine are wrong ;)
If this ever changed, the balance of the universe would probably be in danger...


GS(v)
 
gsv said:
Ooo, Jonny Anonymous on Wikipedia thinks Night of the Hunter is Noir. Guess that's a fucking authoritative opinion then! :rolleyes:

Noir is primarily a claustrophobic urban genre. Hunter is neither claustophobic nor urban and has none of the other typical noir traits: femmes fatales, brooding menace (no the Preacher's not brooding), hardboiled dialogue. Instead it has Lillian Gish proclaiming "Children are humanity's strongest. They abide." If that doesn't make you hurl (on top of the shoddy child acting and heavy-handed "symbolism") then it just goes to show that you're as hypnotised by old Love and Hate as the uniformly idiot townsfolk.

Touch of Evil is largely Noir, but its largely rural setting puts it just outside the genre IMO. This puts me at odds with some critics - well fuck me I've a well-formed opinion all of my own!

Dub also has opinions, most of which seem to be that mine are wrong ;)
If this ever changed, the balance of the universe would probably be in danger...


GS(v)
Click to expand...

Nope, not just Johnny Anonymus, but any comprehensive book or study on the subject will discuss The Night of the Hunter. Film Noir isn't a laundry list of items to be checked off, it is defined by a particular period in film history, a view of the world as a hostile and corrupt place and most of all the stylistic influence of German Expressionist cinema. As such the film fits perfectly well.

Particularly amusing is that you discount Touch of Evil as it is the film that is considered to be the last true Film Noir by the very people who popularised the term. Together with The Maltese Falcon, which started it all, Touch of Evil is the film that bookends the genre. Also, if rural settings disqualify a film as you claim, then what does this make Out of the Past, one of the most famous Film Noirs of them all ?

You can come up with your own definitions, but eventually it may come as a surprise that the rest of the world doesn't revolve around what goes on in your head. Rolling eyes smileys and adolescent sarcasm don't make your argument any more persuasive, btw.
 
Not seen a great deal of noir but The Killers starring Burt Lancaster and Eva Gardner is an excellent film, IMO. Also Siegal's version with Lee Marvin is well worth watching too.
 
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