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Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'

W

wreckhead

Well-Known Member
BBC News said:
"The more [rocket] fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger holocaust because we will use all our might to defend ourselves," Matan Vilnai told Israeli army radio.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7270650.stm

:confused::hmm::eek::mad:

Appalling! Words fail me completely.. and hasn't the USS Cole just turned up in Lebanon?

Really though, how can any nation get away with that kind of rhetoric? I truly hope I live to see the Jewish people and Palestinians living side by side in peace, but with nutters running the show on both sides there seems very little chance of that. :(
 
wreckhead said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7270650.stm

:confused::hmm::eek::mad:

Appalling! Words fail me completely.. and hasn't the USS Cole just turned up in Lebanon?

Really though, how can any nation get away with that kind of rhetoric? I truly hope I live to see the Jewish people and Palestinians living side by side in peace, but with nutters running the show on both sides there seems very little chance of that. :(
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Agree with you last paragraph there, it is a case of nutters on both sides. I think that it would be helpful to put yourself in the shoes of the Israelis their southern towns are under attack from missiles fired from Gaza and there is a call for some sort of response. The situation for the ordinary Palestinian isn't a bed of roses either. This not to condone the appalling situation that the Palestinians find themselves in but they didn't help their own cause by voting for Hamas. The Palestinians vote in dangerous nutters like Hamas and the Israelis respond. The Israelis respond therefore Hamas get worse and so it goes on and on.

A terrible shame Gaza could have been a freeport a kind of Singapore on the Med but its is now a wrecked land of lakes of sewage, rampaging nutters, intermittent supplies lack of fuel and water. Sometimes in times of despair I think that NATO should just take over Gaza and shoot on sight anyone with a weapon until order and justice is restored. Most Palestinians like most Israelis want peace but the politicians, the military, the terrorists and religious extremists will not let it come.

Got the feeling that the USS Cole may be there for other reasons more connected with stuff going on in Lebanon myself.

There are no good guys and bad guys in the current mid east situation just a grey mush of violence begetting violence.
 
Detroit City said:
usually the "bad guys" are the ones with the most power, most money and the most weapons :)
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Not always though. You can feel threatened then accumulated weapons because you feel threatened.

Like I said I don't condone this threat at all but then neither do I condone the blowing up of buses full of civilians with suicide bombs.
 
(the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger holocaust
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At least it's an admission they're already inflicting a holocaust on the Palestinians.

Breath-taking statement of intent.
 
'Hamas says it will cease fire if Israel stops military operations in Palestinian areas. It is also demanding an end to the Israeli-led blockade of Gaza that has cut supplies to its 1.5m inhabitants. '

Fuck me the poor Palestinians need Hamas like a hole in the head mind you thats what they might get if they tried to oust them. :(

I don't think that the Israelis will be able to get away with just dropping bombs on Gaza a la how the yanks do things. It would need a big and sustained ground offensive which will increase tension in the area and make the ordinary Palestinians plight even worse.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
There are no good guys and bad guys in the current mid east situation just a grey mush of violence begetting violence.
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Agreed apart from the fact that there are plenty of bad guys (as in individuals) on both sides.

I'm no middle east expert, and maybe you're right about the USS Cole (and I should put away my conspiraloon hat) but from what I remember of the 2006 Lebanon War, it all started kicking off in Gaza and then the Israeli Soldiers got kidnapped by Hezbollah and it all went off... so the situations seem to me to be very much intertwined.
 
fucking hell.
however, it's not just palestitnians that are suffering in this conflict - israeli border towns have also seen a fair bit of violence
let's hope this erm, interesting use of language will backfire on them publically though ..
the current leadership of israel are deeply unpopular inside israel itself (although oddly enough not with "right wing" people outside it) because of their mistakes with the lebanon war, scandals, corruption, failing to tackle other issues apart from security, etc
israelis/jews are VERY sensitive about the holocaust issue, a few years ago there was an outcry in israel when some guards made a palestinian was forced to play a violin at a border crossing, which is of course what the fash did during the war from time to time ...
 
frogwoman said:
fucking hell.
however, it's not just palestitnians that are suffering in this conflict - israeli border towns have also seen a fair bit of violence
let's hope this erm, interesting use of language will backfire on them publically though ..
the current leadership of israel are deeply unpopular inside israel itself (although oddly enough not with "right wing" people outside it) because of their mistakes with the lebanon war, scandals, corruption, failing to tackle other issues apart from security, etc
israelis/jews are VERY sensitive about the holocaust issue, a few years ago there was an outcry in israel when some guards made a palestinian was forced to play a violin at a border crossing, which is of course what the fash did during the war from time to time ...
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Frogwoman, I agree. I'm pretty appalled by the use of the word Holocaust in this context as well. Lets hope that this politicians career is cut short by revulsion at the ballot box.
 
That's the thing - this is perfect material for Hamas and other "groups" to use to try and justify the line that Israel=Nazis.

I just hope it turns out to be a mistranslation or something, but I doubt it.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Agree with you last paragraph there, it is a case of nutters on both sides. I think that it would be helpful to put yourself in the shoes of the Israelis their southern towns are under attack from missiles fired from Gaza and there is a call for some sort of response.
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There wouldn't be any missiles if the Palestinians hadn't been herded into the Gaza ghetto by the Israelis. I see no reason why a population that has been ethnically cleansed and driven into a strip of land that is unviable should not resort to tactics which at least keep them on the political agenda, instead of the world hoping they'll just wither and die. The violence of the slave fighting the master is not the same as the violence of the master to the slave.

KeyboardJockey said:
The situation for the ordinary Palestinian isn't a bed of roses either. This not to condone the appalling situation that the Palestinians find themselves in but they didn't help their own cause by voting for Hamas. The Palestinians vote in dangerous nutters like Hamas and the Israelis respond. The Israelis respond therefore Hamas get worse and so it goes on and on.
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You miss the root cause as usual. Gaza is a ghetto made up to a great extent of those driven there by the Haganah/IDf ethnic cleansing of nearby southern Palestinian settlements. You have to solve that to undercut the violence

KeyboardJockey said:
Sometimes in times of despair I think that NATO should just take over Gaza and shoot on sight anyone with a weapon until order and justice is restored.
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:rolleyes: Out come KBJ's authoritarian fantasies again. You'd have made a good gauleiter putting down ghetto dwellers who disturbed 'order'

KeyboardJockey said:
There are no good guys and bad guys in the current mid east situation just a grey mush of violence begetting violence.
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It looks like that to you because your one-sided loyalties make you blind to its root causes.
 
frogwoman said:
fucking hell.
however, it's not just palestitnians that are suffering in this conflict - israeli border towns have also seen a fair bit of violence .
Click to expand...

With due respect, I doubt that. One Israeli person has been killed by a rocket in 9 months and I believe one other has been hurt in the same period.

32 Gazans (including 4 boys playing in a field) have been killed by the Israelis in the last two days.

There is murder going on here.
 
frogwoman said:
israeli border towns have also seen a fair bit of violence
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You have to ask why that is. I'm sure most palestinians would rather be working alongside those Israelis, and have the chance to live the life they do, as equals - something they can only dream about from their squalid ghetto existence

The real nutters in this situation are the ones who perpetuate the dispossession, exile and ghettoisation of Palestinians
 
Spion said:
:rolleyes: Out come KBJ's authoritarian fantasies again. You'd have made a good gauleiter putting down ghetto dwellers who disturbed 'order'
.
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Not an authoritarian fantasy but a way of dealing with a territory which is in the hands of mad gunmen.

This is not something that Israel could do it would get too much bad publicity it would have to be an international force.

Gaza needs normalising which means removing or neutralising those who promote violence.

Why not think of the ordinary people who deserve a life free from violence.

Shelling Gaza is just counterproductive as civilians are killed either by accident or by them being in the wrong place at the wrong time (or even placed in the wrong place by Hamas for PR reasons) or by Hamas putting rocket launchers in civilian areas.

As I have repeatedly said on here (but have been shouted down repeatedly by one track minded anti zionists such as yourself) the Palestinians have got a bad deal in the past but it has to be acknowledged that both sides have been violent and this violence must stop before progress can be made.
 
coccinelle said:
With due respect, I doubt that. One Israeli person has been killed by a rocket in 9 months and I believe one other has been hurt in the same period.

32 Gazans (including 4 boys playing in a field) have been killed by the Israelis in the last two days.

There is murder going on here.
Click to expand...

Long range weapons such as shells and bombs are a very indiscriminate way of waging war. Civilians are bound to be killed in bombing its in the nature of the weapon. International troops are needed here. Shame our own troops are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
wreckhead said:
That's the thing - this is perfect material for Hamas and other "groups" to use to try and justify the line that Israel=Nazis.

I just hope it turns out to be a mistranslation or something, but I doubt it.
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Yes one of the great Foot-In-Mouth moments of recent days.
 
International troops are needed here. Shame our own troops are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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The Palestinians have often requested peace keeping forces (if only to monitor random killings by the IDF) but the US veto at the UN has always blocked that.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Not an authoritarian fantasy but a way of dealing with a territory which is in the hands of mad gunmen.

This is not something that Israel could do it would get too much bad publicity it would have to be an international force.

Gaza needs normalising which means removing or neutralising those who promote violence.

Why not think of the ordinary people who deserve a life free from violence.

Shelling Gaza is just counterproductive as civilians are killed either by accident or by them being in the wrong place at the wrong time (or even placed in the wrong place by Hamas for PR reasons) or by Hamas putting rocket launchers in civilian areas.

As I have repeatedly said on here (but have been shouted down repeatedly by one track minded anti zionists such as yourself) the Palestinians have got a bad deal in the past but it has to be acknowledged that both sides have been violent and this violence must stop before progress can be made.
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Where exactly is the blockage in your head? The Gazans are living in a ghetto. They don't need putting down they need justice. You spout mealy mouthed crap about thinking of the 'ordinary people', but completely disregard the root cause of why the people of Gaza are in the situation they are in and why the response is as it is.
 
coccinelle said:
The Palestinians have often requested peace keeping forces (if only to monitor random killings by the IDF) but the US veto at the UN has always blocked that.
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That is a fuck up by the US. I wonder if the EU could do it instead? Obviously the US would need to be consulted. Maybe things will improve after the US election.

A neutral force would protect the Gazans from the potential of indiscriminate attack from Israel and depending how the rules of engagement are worked out could also take out the Hamas terrorists as well. Win win for all really. A better life for the Pals and the Hamas terrorists dealt with. However, any force would need to have the confidence of both sides.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Long range weapons such as shells and bombs are a very indiscriminate way of waging war. Civilians are bound to be killed in bombing its in the nature of the weapon. International troops are needed here. Shame our own troops are bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

As long as there is state-enforced inequality and land-grabs international troops would only be reinforcing the israelis, and would therefore become legitimate targets. The international community has to a) persuade israel to cease being an apartheid state; and b) persuade the palestinians to attempt to follow a process of reintegration based on what exists rather than what did exist.

Equal legal and social rights, a secular state, returning (at the very least) private land taken in the last 30 years, the removal of the wall, freedom of movement, etc etc. Israel won't agree to that, and has never made any sort of pretence at treating its Palestiniant population as equals. There won't be peace until there are no Palestianians left. They can either lay down and die, or they can fight until they die. Either way, the term Holocaust is correct, and deliberately chosen. Gaza is rapidly turning into Palestine's Warsaw Ghetto - and I guess the lesson from the Ghetto has been well learned :(
 
Spion said:
Where exactly is the blockage in your head? The Gazans are living in a ghetto. They don't need putting down they need justice. You spout mealy mouthed crap about thinking of the 'ordinary people', but completely disregard the root cause of why the people of Gaza are in the situation they are in and why the response is as it is.
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I don't disregard the root causes of the problem its just that picking at these scabs without thinking about how ALL can be made safe is pointless. One state is a recipie for a bloodbath and I will not put my name or my support for that sort of genocide in the Holy Land nor anywhere else.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
I don't disregard the root causes of the problem its just that picking at these scabs without thinking about how ALL can be made safe is pointless. One state is a recipie for a bloodbath and I will not put my name or my support for that sort of genocide in the Holy Land nor anywhere else.
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I don't agree. As you've said many times, most people just want to get on with their lives, and that could happen if the resources were put in and the Zionist insistence on their ethnic supremacy was laid to rest. The amount spent on pointless wars in iraq and Afghanistan could have paid for a house and car and job for every Palestinian who wanted one and the infrastruture to allow integration. But the world won't spend money on peace, especially while people like you swallow the myth that there is some fundamental incompatibility between jew and arab
 
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