Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Labour lays out health reform.

Balbi

Hey, Dean Yager!
The Health Sec. is on BBC News right now, outlining what he says is the job of a 'fourth term Labour government'.

In the last decade NHS has gone from poor to good, and he says the next decade will see it go through to outstanding.

'A better, more engaging way of achieving Health service reform'.

I can spot the problem here.

Can everyone else? ;)
 
:D, very good point Pickmans.

I see there's the obligatory twitterati reference in the speech too.

15/20 billion pounds of saving over the next 4 years? :eek:
 
Dismantle some of the systems of top down change :D

Made for a different time.

Yes Andy, 1997 :D
 
Scrapping G.P catchment areas....thrilling.

The ensuing funding madness (plus the new sytems to sort it out) and the problems of over and under registration with particular more or less popular GPs make this one of the worst health service ideas for some time.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
It may not be politic to say this on here but i do some work for a PCT and there are way too many of them in London with huge doubling up of resources at management level.

They either need to be combined or made to work closer together (which is potentialy going to happen)

One example is commissioning of acute Mental Health services. They don't speak together to identify need across Mental Health Trusts/PCT's - several PCT's may have enough individuals with a similar need to commission and run or set up a service between them. Instead they don't do this enough and waste money spot puchasing expensive provision with private providers for the individuals they have, as opposed to combining resources and commissioning collectively.

Savings could be used to support more front line services.
 
The PCT structure is changing again - being split into provider (services - covering everything from Clinical stuff to HR), and commissioning (decide what services are required, how muhc they're going to spend on them, and doling said money out). THey are also merging to somehting close to where they were about 6 or 7 years ago, with what were then known (in London at least) as the 'Shared Services Partnerships', when they did actually make savings by merging all the stuff you can merge (admin , IT support, HR), and management and delivery of clinical services as local as possible (which eventually become the model for the PCTs as they currently are).

Acute MHS services are handled by specialised trusts in themselves - SLAM, NWLMHST and so on - and exist separately from the clinical PCTs with their own budgets, commisioning powers etc. Plus, getting MH professionsals to broad agreement on anything is like herding cats - moreso than many other services IME!
 
The PCT structure is changing again - being split into provider (services - covering everything from Clinical stuff to HR), and commissioning (decide what services are required, how muhc they're going to spend on them, and doling said money out). THey are also merging to somehting close to where they were about 6 or 7 years ago, with what were then known (in London at least) as the 'Shared Services Partnerships', when they did actually make savings by merging all the stuff you can merge (admin , IT support, HR), and management and delivery of clinical services as local as possible (which eventually become the model for the PCTs as they currently are).

yeah i have heard about this, merging PCT's in to 'spines' coming out of central london

Acute MHS services are handled by specialised trusts in themselves - SLAM, NWLMHST and so on - and exist separately from the clinical PCTs with their own budgets, commisioning powers etc. Plus, getting MH professionsals to broad agreement on anything is like herding cats - moreso than many other services IME!

i've been working in LD and it's the same :D

i have the same issue as i see in MH. That we are placing people in Residential/Low Secure accomodation in ones and twos on a spot purchased basis. So are the Boroughs/PCT's around us yet when i suggest we combine our budgets and commission a service (as these people have similar needs) i get looked at like i am a crazy.
 
i have the same issue as i see in MH. That we are placing people in Residential/Low Secure accomodation in ones and twos on a spot purchased basis. So are the Boroughs/PCT's around us yet when i suggest we combine our budgets and commission a service (as these people have similar needs) i get looked at like i am a crazy.

It's all about duty of care responsibilities, HAving ripped the social care elements of councils out years ago, there are very few who are happy taking on MH patients without either money from the NHS and/or some kind of undertaking about who will be at fault if something goes seriously wrong. Plus of course, no one outside of MH services really actually gives a shit, so long as Those MH pts living in the community aren't wanking in public or murdering people.
 
It's all about duty of care responsibilities, HAving ripped the social care elements of councils out years ago, there are very few who are happy taking on MH patients without either money from the NHS and/or some kind of undertaking about who will be at fault if something goes seriously wrong. Plus of course, no one outside of MH services really actually gives a shit, so long as Those MH pts living in the community aren't wanking in public or murdering people.

i'm unclear what 'duty of care' is being achieved by placing people in placements 100s of miles from London where they are lucky to get a visit from a social worker once a year to do a review.

as opposed to commissioning services within the M25 at least where at least some kind of quality monitoring can go on

but as you say, out of sight etc.

and re: funding - we are a pooled budget with the PCT but the discussions about who is 'continuing care' and who isn't can be interesting....
 
So New Labour have been in power how long and still the NHS needs reform? What have they been doing all this time they have been throwing money at it?
 
It has be reformed - massively so in fact - but it's an ongoing process of change as clinical priorities change and so on...
 
So New Labour have been in power how long and still the NHS needs reform? What have they been doing all this time they have been throwing money at it?

Ongoing businesses need ongoing reform. The NHS is a massive business Labour have made plenty of mistakes but they are not responsible for the micro management of the NHS.
They inherited a vast bureaucratic management full of self serving sharks.
 
So New Labour have been in power how long and still the NHS needs reform? What have they been doing all this time they have been throwing money at it?

They have mainly been throwing money at private firms (via treatments, PFI, contracting and nonsense like the NHS IT deal) rather than the NHS as a whole, and as many have said what reform they have taken place has mainly been with increased privatization in mind.
 
The NHS has never had more money than it has now. Whilst we have a 'good' NHS the improvements that have been made are not necessarily in line with the level of funding increases.

No politician is going to cut NHS funding. However, with a zero increase that could amount to an erosion in money as services become more expensive. The unfortunate situation is that the NHS have to deliver MORE for LESS, as increased demands from patients become louder.

A minority of Drs have been savvy in winding their patients up and misusing the media when changes are proposed, especially the ones that have implications on their wallets. Many services can be provided differently- services can come out of hospitals, expensive single handed GP practices can be merged. Politically, it was always problematic to seek true value when faced with an organised force.

People often highlight issues around 'privitisation'. But few people realise that most GPs are private contracts and enter into agreements to provide services to the NHS. Hospitals are also becoming more independent as they receive 'foundation' status. And the split of PCTs, with their provider arm becoming autonomous, will also churn out a number of independent organisations. If competition become more widespread then services could be provided by the party that offers the best value. The NHS is just a big market place and the private sector should be invited to join.

If this opportunity is used then not only would funding issues not be such a major problem, services can also be delivered in more appropriate ways. Rather than being a completely fucked up position to be in there are lots of opportunities here.
 
People often highlight issues around 'privitisation'. But few people realise that most GPs are private contracts and enter into agreements to provide services to the NHS. Hospitals are also becoming more independent as they receive 'foundation' status. And the split of PCTs, with their provider arm becoming autonomous, will also churn out a number of independent organisations. If competition become more widespread then services could be provided by the party that offers the best value. The NHS is just a big market place and the private sector should be invited to join.

Actually I think this paragraph is a pretty accurate description of the process and the goals, the fact that the "reforms" are designed to split the NHS into a collection of service providers which are easy to chop off individually and put into the private sector, by design - it's the conclusion that it's a good thing that I, and I suspect many others here, have an issue with.
 
The reality is that it will be a very long time before the private sector will be providing any significant level of service. And, even when they do, they will be employing the same staff as before. Its a very small employment market.

Splitting the NHS into more provider organisations lets them focus on efficiency and compete with other organisations for 'business'. In the past that has not happened to any significant degree and services have cost too much money. We are seeing some organisations emerge as 'social enterprises', some have community foundation trust status and other merging with stronger neighbours. This is great because they can concentrate on what they do best, innovate and develop.

Bringing in competitive tension is not about handing money over to the private sector. If everyone competes you get the best value. The only danger is that you are not asking them to provide the right things. It's a common theme in many sectors that the contract does not reflect the needs, which is why you need to invest the staff to oversee these contractors adequetly.

If I am honest, I would rather a private company makes a profit out of providing good services to the NHS than to some GPs, especially the ones that open for a mere 13 hours per week and drive around in £60k motors. A survey out today said that the average wage of a contract holding GP was £105k, whereas a salaried one was circa £57. It's not rocket science to work out that getting a private company in that has 10 salaried GPs will be cheaper and free up resources to reinvest in the system.

Only competition can drive down costs and improve quality. That, unfortunately, means inviting the private sector in. But if NHS organisations can meet the challenge then there isn't anything to worry about.
 
Oh great, the NHS equivalent of Cobbles has arrived.

Bringing in competitive tension is not about handing money over to the private sector. If everyone competes you get the best value. The only danger is that you are not asking them to provide the right things. It's a common theme in many sectors that the contract does not reflect the needs, which is why you need to invest the staff to oversee these contractors adequetly.

What utter rubbish. To take one example, the ISTC programme was set up with the full knowledge that (a) the ISTC cost of operations would generally be 10-15% higher than the NHS cost and (b) that the state would pay for both operations that didnt take place (£200 million according to Eye #1244) and is committed to buying the ISTC premises anyway (another £200 million). Competition in the NHS is only about handing money over to the private sector - who do you think they are competing against, in the main?

Narcylad said:
If I am honest, I would rather a private company makes a profit out of providing good services to the NHS than to some GPs, especially the ones that open for a mere 13 hours per week and drive around in £60k motors. A survey out today said that the average wage of a contract holding GP was £105k, whereas a salaried one was circa £57. It's not rocket science to work out that getting a private company in that has 10 salaried GPs will be cheaper and free up resources to reinvest in the system.

Not really. The GP's contact that has given some GPs (about a third of them) an annual salary of £100k plus was one of the first ideas of New Labour and demonstrated early on their talent for thinking things through and their demands for getting the best value from our money that they were investing in the PMS system. That said, they were paid that much because they were expected to actually run (as kind of private contractors themselves) their surgeries, not to just be an NHS GP - so you might want to rethink your rich NHS vs cheap private healthcare story.

Of course, as we have grown to expect from a New Labour economic policy it was so successful that the Government had to firstly bring in the GMS system in 2003 (iirc, which had the dual benefit of being less generous to GPs and considerably better thought out), and then started to attack the terms and conditions of PMS contracts, both at the PCT level and through planted media stories about how GPs were caning it in despite doing flip all. This started long before the first private healthcare-run GP surgery came in (May 2006).

There is a good article on the history of PMS, GMS and the varying attitude of the Government here, and a report on the survey you probably were referring to can be found here.

Narcylad said:
Only competition can drive down costs and improve quality. That, unfortunately, means inviting the private sector in. But if NHS organisations can meet the challenge then there isn't anything to worry about.

More claptrap. If you want to drive down costs in the NHS then you might want to start with the admin budget, slashing consultancy fees (which Eye #1244 claim is between £500 - 600 million annually), and abolishing the farce of the internal market.
 
UK to US: The Truth About the NHS!

Know this is slightly off topic but thought relevent.
http://www.avaaz.org/en/reform_health_care_uk/98.php?CLICK_TF_TRACK.

The use of polyclinics to replace GP surgeries and 'modernise' essential services in a 'one size fits all' kind of way, backed by at least part private financing; Branson/Virgin were quite interested in this for a while with a certain amount of control over running it in a 'business like' way must act as a detriment to patient care, services and at the end of the day choice.

The whole idea that patients are some kind of customers who know much better than qualified medical staff with years of experience is almost laughable, and these knew reforms will not give patients better protection or be treated in a more human way as anybody who has worked for the public sector or been a customer for services knows; what are they going to end up doing if you hurt yourself or are injured do; tell you to ring up a call centre in Mombay and wait for someone to come round in the morning..
 
Back
Top Bottom