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Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

Kid_Eternity said:
Haha gutsy! Total genius or utter fool move.
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It would be completely foolish. During the run up to the WWDC there's going to be umpteen rumours of Mac Mini Laptops, Tablets, the "amazing" features of the iPhone 3.0, etc.

The Pre launch would be news for a day, but the WWDC keynote and any new products (and associated hype) would mean everyone would forget it. There's also umpteen zillion devs in San Francisco, all talking about the GSM iPhone.

(GSM matters because it will be hard to switch over from AT+T to Sprint. Palm would have to sell or give away "unlocked" Palm Pre's to developers)

It also means that Palm would be trying to position the Pre as a competitor to the Iphone. Its an 8gb CDMA "fun" smartphone with a (probably) low price point. The iPhone 3.0 will be 32 Gb, an established App base, and much higher price point.
 
If it's true, then I'm not convinced it's automatically a doomed launch.

The one thing it will do is absolutely lay clear to the media who Palm believe they are competing head-on with. Every review of the Apple offering will mention Palm, so they'd get a free ride on the juggernaut.

They'd best be doing it in the bay area though :)
 
I'm not convinced that Apple will release a low cost iPhone when their existing model sells so well?

Why would you undercut yourself?
 
Sunray said:
I'm not convinced that Apple will release a low cost iPhone when their existing model sells so well?

Why would you undercut yourself?
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I thinks increadibly unlikely based on Apple's business strategy : "Selling computer stuff we like at a premium because we can". Why can muppet pundits understand this...? :confused:
 
jæd said:
The Pre launch would be news for a day, but the WWDC keynote and any new products (and associated hype) would mean everyone would forget it.
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I think you're a bit out of touch here. The Pre and its new OS already has received *enormous* publicity and I can't see all that disappearing overnight just because Apple release the third iteration of a phone that - so far - appears to only offer an incremental upgrade to the last two.

Early guesstimates suggest that it's going sell for less than the iPhone, and if the early reviews/previews are anything to go by, it easily matches (and in some areas) surpasses the current iPhones in many areas.

Incidentally, Palm are now rumoured to be prepping a second 'nano' style phone for later this year.

http://mypre.com/palm-releasing-smaller-mini-pre-in-late-2009-2009301412
 
Kid_Eternity said:
I think letting slip of another phone so soon after the Pre will be about isn't wise tbh.
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If it's targeting a totally different demographic, I can't see how it will have a negative impact.

Companies like Nokia have released wide ranges of models simultaneously for years and they seem to have done alright.

If anything, the second, smaller model will strengthen the brand, and substantially broaden the appeal of Palm.
 
editor said:
I think you're a bit out of touch here. The Pre and its new OS already has received *enormous* publicity and I can't see all that disappearing overnight just because Apple release the third iteration of a phone that - so far - appears to only offer an incremental upgrade to the last two.
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Its received enormous publicity in the tech press. In the mainstream media there was one story back when it was launched. The iPhone had the mainstream press going gaa-gaa for months. I see iPhone 3.0 as the iPhone with all the snags people bleated on endlessly about removed. Its actually quite good. ;)

editor said:
Early guesstimates suggest that it's going sell for less than the iPhone, and if the early reviews/previews are anything to go by, it easily matches (and in some areas) surpasses the current iPhones in many areas.
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This is all based on "ifs" and speculation. The iPhone 3.0 firmware is easily downloaded.

editor said:
Incidentally, Palm are now rumoured to be prepping a second 'nano' style phone for later this year.
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Bad idea and unlikely. Unless Pre come up with a very good method of developing for different screen sizes it would fragement an already small number of developers.

Palm need to release a second phone in about 6 / 8 months from the first, but I think it will a 16 gb version.
 
editor said:
Companies like Nokia have released wide ranges of models simultaneously for years and they seem to have done alright.
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The majority of Nokia's phones weren't smart-phones with scads of developers writing 3rd party software.
 
jæd said:
Its received enormous publicity in the tech press. In the mainstream media there was one story back when it was launched. The iPhone had the mainstream press going gaa-gaa for months. I see iPhone 3.0 as the iPhone with all the snags people bleated on endlessly about removed. Its actually quite good.
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The iPhone is already a good phone but v3 is still more or less the same phone as the 3G model and it's going to be pretty hard for the press to get into such a lather over something they've already seen.

That's not to say that it won't still get a ton of press hyperbole - that's what Apple excel at after all - but the notion that as soon as it's announced all interest in the (let's be honest, far more interesting) Palm Pre will disappear instantly seems hugely unlikely.
 
editor said:
If it's targeting a totally different demographic, I can't see how it will have a negative impact.

Companies like Nokia have released wide ranges of models simultaneously for years and they seem to have done alright.

If anything, the second, smaller model will strengthen the brand, and substantially broaden the appeal of Palm.
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I don't agree, Palm don't have the luxury of dividing people's attention like this. They need to focus on doing one thing, the Pre, right and right first time.

You can't have situation where nobody knows when it's released then start wondering whether they should just hold out for another phone or not when you're a company in Palm's position.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
I don't agree, Palm don't have the luxury of dividing people's attention like this. They need to focus on doing one thing, the Pre, right and right first time.
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Well, that's your opinion but I fancy Palm have a little bit more expertise in this area.

As far as I can see they've spent an awful long time making sure they get the Pre right, but it would seem bizarre to me that they wouldn't look to expand their range to try and attract different demographics.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree but I never said they shouldn't release another unit just not so soon (I think they drop a 16 or 32 gigger around Spring 2010). They are on the edge of the abyss as a company and they have only one good shot at salvaging a future for themselves, they cannot risk it by mucking up the launch or the product. Letting people think there's another unit coming so soon after the Pre will undermine it.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
We'll have to agree to disagree but I never said they shouldn't release another unit just not so soon (I think they drop a 16 or 32 gigger around Spring 2010). They are on the edge of the abyss as a company and they have only one good shot at salvaging a future for themselves, they cannot risk it by mucking up the launch or the product. Letting people think there's another unit coming so soon after the Pre will undermine it.
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But if it's a completely different sort of phone why would it make any difference? I want the one with a keyboard, so I don't care what's coming after.

You could say the same about Apple announcing their v3 iPhone a while ago, but that hasn't stopped people buying the current model in droves.
 
Kid_Eternity said:
We'll have to agree to disagree but I never said they shouldn't release another unit just not so soon (I think they drop a 16 or 32 gigger around Spring 2010). They are on the edge of the abyss as a company and they have only one good shot at salvaging a future for themselves, they cannot risk it by mucking up the launch or the product. Letting people think there's another unit coming so soon after the Pre will undermine it.
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Its called the Osbourne Effect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect )

And people are delaying purchase of the iPhone because there's one on the horizon. Its why iPhone 3gs are being discounted...
 
jæd said:
Its called the Osbourne Effect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect )

And people are delaying purchase of the iPhone because there's one on the horizon. Its why iPhone 3gs are being discounted...
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Except the other (rumoured) Palm phone has not been announced, a release date has not been set and its existence hasn't even been confirmed.

I fancy that rather sinks your point - unless you think people are labouring under the illusion that Palm will never, ever release any other phone apart from the Pre.
 
editor said:
Except the other (rumoured) Palm phone has not been announced, a release date has not been set and its existence hasn't even been confirmed.

I fancy that rather sinks your point - unless you think people are labouring under the illusion that Palm will never, ever release any other phone apart from the Pre.
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I was responding to you point about the iPhone. I know two mates who are delaying buying it until the new one comes out.

If people seriously thought there was Palm Pre 16 Gb version coming out soon (ie 2 months) after the Pre then they might delaying buying it... Same with the Palm Nano.
 
jæd said:
If people seriously thought there was Palm Pre 16 Gb version coming out soon (ie 2 months) after the Pre then they might delaying buying it... Same with the Palm Nano.
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There has been no announcement about a second Palm Pre, although it's probable that there will be larger capacity versions at an unspecified later date.

The 'Nano' is only an unsubstantiated Internet rumour and if it does exist it is likely to be an entirely different kind of phone appealing to a different kind of demographic.

I fail to see how either of the above will influence the sales of Palm's sole announced handset.
 
In line with all good web rumours, a suitably vague and blurry photo of the 'second' Palm phone has emerged with it looking a bit like a stretched Centro.


palm_pre_second_gen_device.jpg


http://mypre.com/palm-webos-qwerty-candybar-image-leaks-2009301415

Can't say I'm convinced yet.
 
jæd said:
I was responding to you point about the iPhone. I know two mates who are delaying buying it until the new one comes out.

If people seriously thought there was Palm Pre 16 Gb version coming out soon (ie 2 months) after the Pre then they might delaying buying it... Same with the Palm Nano.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm not going to buy a Pre on day one if a new phone is anywhere near confirmed. I have this horrible feeling Palm may fuck this all up...:rolleyes:
 
Kid_Eternity said:
Yep, I'm not going to buy a Pre on day one if a new phone is anywhere near confirmed.
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I must admit, I don't understand your logic here.

If the Pre matches your technical and pricing preferences, to hold back from buying it just because there's another phone on the distant horizon - which may not even match your requirements - seems really odd.
hendo said:
You're not on your own; see this piece in the FT today, which suggests the Pre could be 'DOA' which is a bit strong for a phone that hasn't even seen the market yet, but there you go. .
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He does seem to be out on a limb with his opinion there, unless he has special insider access.

But if he is right, then I'll be looking at an Android device, I guess.
 
hendo said:
You're not on your own; see this piece in the FT today, which suggests the Pre could be 'DOA' which is a bit strong for a phone that hasn't even seen the market yet, but there you go. .
Click to expand...

This is a bit incorrect:

'Finally, he does not view Palm as an attractive takeover candidate: “Their crown jewel is the OS, but the smart phone industry is migrating away from closed to open platforms. As such Palm is on the wrong side of the fence.”'

Android is the only really "open" platform around. And Palm's WebOs is supposed to be open as well.

If Palm position it as a iPhone killer then it will fail (like all the others). If they position as a fun, cheap, smart-phone it will be fine...
 
There have been a few reports that Palm may restrict availability of the Pre to ensure it sells out on release, which could tie in with what the guy was saying about limited production. They're preparing hype with the "Palm Pre Protest Guy" viral casting.

I've also seen a few rumoured prices of $300 for the Pre which I'm assuming is with a Sprint plan, placing it above the AT&T iPhone price-wise. And the Palm head-honcho did say "Why would we sell it cheaper than the iPhone when it's a better product?" when asked about pricing.

The Americans will find out soon enough. I suspect Palm want to get a solid US launch under their belts before negotiating deals with EU carriers to ensure they get the best deal, much as Apple did with the iPhone. That would push out an EU launch a few months, but could still be Oct/Nov, I'd have thought.
 
hendo said:
You're not on your own; see this piece in the FT today, which suggests the Pre could be 'DOA' which is a bit strong for a phone that hasn't even seen the market yet, but there you go. .
Click to expand...

Some of that is worrying, you might want to restrict sales at the start deliberately like Apple did with the 3G, but when people started to get annoyed at how long it was talking suddenly they became universally available.

If they have only ordered 1 million handsets, that's a crazy low number and might be a hole in the head for Palm. They are in the business of selling phones are they not?
 
jæd said:
This is a bit incorrect:

'Finally, he does not view Palm as an attractive takeover candidate: “Their crown jewel is the OS, but the smart phone industry is migrating away from closed to open platforms. As such Palm is on the wrong side of the fence.”'
Click to expand...
That is a very strange statement to make seeing as the most successful smartphone at the moment is the none-more-closed, uber-proprietary iPhone, with the equally closed Blackberry OS not far behind.
 
More rumours of the Palm 'Eos', plus less-blurry shot. Looks good, but it's not for me because the screen's too small, the cam's a bit duff and there's bugger all storage.
Rumor: Moments after the first blurry-cam shot of an unknown WebOS based device began making the rounds, Engadget has obtained a host of new details and specs on the unannounced device. The device itself may be called the Palm Eos and could be headed to AT&T in the fall if the source is indeed correct. Engadget's leaked rendering of the device shows it taking a similar form factor to the classic Treo and Centro design. Spec-wise is is said to be a a quadband GSM / HSDPA phone and will supposedly be only 10.6mm (.42" inches) thin. It will measure 55mm x 111mm (~ 2.1" x 4.3" inches), weigh 100 grams (3.52 ounces), and will sport a 2.63-inch, 320 x 400 capacitive display. Curiously absent at this time is any mention of WiFi, though without any official word everything about this unit is still very much up in the air.

Engadget lists the known specs at this time as:

  • 4GB storage
  • Price: $349 (pre-rebate)
  • Camera: 2 megapixel fixed focus digital camera and flash / video capture
  • Connectivity: Bluetooth 2.1 w/ A2DP and EDR, USB 2.0 via micro USB
  • Removable 1,150 mAh battery (4 hours 3G talk time)
  • Messaging: SMS, MMS (picture and video only), integrated IM client
  • Contact sync with AT&T Address Book
  • MediaNet
  • Cellular Video
  • Email: POP3, IMAP4, and EAS support
  • A-GPS
  • Audio: WAV, MP3, AAC, AAC+ ringtones
  • Video Playback: MPEG4, H.264, H.263
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9756/palm-eos-the-next-gsm-webos-phone/
Click to expand...
 
editor said:
I must admit, I don't understand your logic here.

If the Pre matches your technical and pricing preferences, to hold back from buying it just because there's another phone on the distant horizon - which may not even match your requirements - seems really odd.He does seem to be out on a limb with his opinion there, unless he has special insider access.

But if he is right, then I'll be looking at an Android device, I guess.
Click to expand...

It's dependent on the Pre coming out in the UK by July, if it doesn't Palm loses my money as I'm not waiting any longer. It has one shot at getting it right and the fact that Palm aren't shutting this speculation down makes me wonder if it's true or if Palm's pr is pretty crap...
 
Kid_Eternity said:
It's dependent on the Pre coming out in the UK by July, if it doesn't Palm loses my money as I'm not waiting any longer. It has one shot at getting it right and the fact that Palm aren't shutting this speculation down makes me wonder if it's true or if Palm's pr is pretty crap...
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The vast majority of Palm's target audience won't be bothered at all- it's only impatient tech-freaks like ourselves who are getting all hot and bothered abut release dates.

I'm slowly beginning to resign myself to maybe buying a s/hand G1 to tide me over until the Pre surfaces. At least at the end of that I'll have all my data 'in the cloud' so it'll be a piece of piss to transfer everything over.

PS I'm not sure how you expect Palm to 'shut speculation down.' Apple have it every day.
 
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