Weds 1st April: G20 protests - discussion, reaction and chat
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Recent events following the death of Ian Tomlinson are extremely significant and should not be underestimated.
I have witnessed sustained police violence against demonstrators on numerous occassions. In every case the media have twisted the facts and have supported the police account. The police have managed both to terrorise protesters and to manage media coverage to ensure that the majority of the public receive the impression of violent protesters.
In the Ian Tomlinson case the police account of finding him collapsed and then coming under sustained missile fire as they valiently attempted to save his life was reported by the media despite many witnesses to the contrary. As with the death of Blair Peach and of Liddle Towers, the violence against striking miners, against the print workers at Wapping, the anti-Nazi protest at Wapping etc etc the media would simply have parotted the police lies. With the Poll Tax protest of 1990 the same was true but the numbers fighting back blew the police strategy apart. Since then police have largely avoided causing confrontation at protests of significant size - the vast majority of large demonstrations passing off peacefully and easily ignored by the media.
But the sad death of Ian Tomlinson made the question of police violence a news story and then the video evidence and access to all to that evidence on the internet has meant that the truth is impossible to conceal. I don't think that the BBC would have paid any attention to the video of the police striking that woman either were it not for the focus on police violence following the revelation of the truth in the Ian Tomlinson case.
The task for the establishment and for the police will now change and be much harder. Instead of denying police violence against protesters they will seek to justify it. But these are difficult times for the police. They are under fire for being useless at tackling sexual assault and rape cases. The anniversary of Hillsborough is a reminder that police crowd contol tactics have led to deaths before (and it is worth remembering that the extreme malicious lies proved false by the CCTV and witnesses that were reported in the Sun came from 'police sources').
Meanwhile 100+ environment activists were arrested recently in Nottingham for discussing organising a protest that may have involved 'aggravated tresspass' targetting a coal fired power station. Thousands of police were mobilised to make these arrests aimed at preventing dissent.
These are not just a few rotten apples - the odd copper losing it. Rather the police force exist primarily to protect the existing social and economic structures forcibly. We are told that their primary function is to protect us from anti-social crime. The fact is they are useless at that because the structure of the force is geared to completely different priorities. The mask has slipped and will be difficult to re-place.
I have witnessed sustained police violence against demonstrators on numerous occassions. In every case the media have twisted the facts and have supported the police account. The police have managed both to terrorise protesters and to manage media coverage to ensure that the majority of the public receive the impression of violent protesters.
In the Ian Tomlinson case the police account of finding him collapsed and then coming under sustained missile fire as they valiently attempted to save his life was reported by the media despite many witnesses to the contrary. As with the death of Blair Peach and of Liddle Towers, the violence against striking miners, against the print workers at Wapping, the anti-Nazi protest at Wapping etc etc the media would simply have parotted the police lies. With the Poll Tax protest of 1990 the same was true but the numbers fighting back blew the police strategy apart. Since then police have largely avoided causing confrontation at protests of significant size - the vast majority of large demonstrations passing off peacefully and easily ignored by the media.
But the sad death of Ian Tomlinson made the question of police violence a news story and then the video evidence and access to all to that evidence on the internet has meant that the truth is impossible to conceal. I don't think that the BBC would have paid any attention to the video of the police striking that woman either were it not for the focus on police violence following the revelation of the truth in the Ian Tomlinson case.
The task for the establishment and for the police will now change and be much harder. Instead of denying police violence against protesters they will seek to justify it. But these are difficult times for the police. They are under fire for being useless at tackling sexual assault and rape cases. The anniversary of Hillsborough is a reminder that police crowd contol tactics have led to deaths before (and it is worth remembering that the extreme malicious lies proved false by the CCTV and witnesses that were reported in the Sun came from 'police sources').
Meanwhile 100+ environment activists were arrested recently in Nottingham for discussing organising a protest that may have involved 'aggravated tresspass' targetting a coal fired power station. Thousands of police were mobilised to make these arrests aimed at preventing dissent.
These are not just a few rotten apples - the odd copper losing it. Rather the police force exist primarily to protect the existing social and economic structures forcibly. We are told that their primary function is to protect us from anti-social crime. The fact is they are useless at that because the structure of the force is geared to completely different priorities. The mask has slipped and will be difficult to re-place.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
She was complaining about the thumpings going on around her. Are you "glad" they were happening, too?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It's the thugs in front of her that you should be thinking about.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
You'd better stay away from all demonstrations then. Because if you think that was an isolated incident, you're deluded. And you don't have to raise your voice to be subjected to it either.
No? Not if, as she probably had, you witnessed an unprovoked violent assault on a fellow member of the public? Would you let such a crime go unremarked upon?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
If he remarked, he'd be "glad" to take his beating.
rekil
to menny cranks
Because you're a coward. That woman reacted instinctively and correctly. She has more balls than you and you hate her for it.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
she has less of a brain for a)letting herself get into that position b) trying it on with riot police.
these guys arent the plod on a walkabout. they are there following orders!
editor
hiraethified
"That position" meaning being on a public highway exercising her democratic right to peacefully protest, yes?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
She wasn't "trying it on", she was pointing out injustice.
Maybe we should all just keep quiet and let the beatings go unremarked upon. Maybe the BBC need a good smack for showing the video.
editor
hiraethified
BBC TV news this afternoon. Lead story: Hillsborough and the police lies, fuck ups, and lack of accountability.
Second story: G20 footage and more of the same.
editor
hiraethified
I probably deserve a good slap too for letting people discuss it here too.
winjer
holocene death beat
They're backing her away from their kettle, are you blind?
I said less of a brain, not NO brain! play with fire, get burned. shout at a riot cop, get a slap. I am sure he will get whats coming to him now the media got a hold of the vid.
Again, if you are going to protest, do it peacefully like the other guys! much more effective and (shouldnt) allow the coppers to just outthink you. with that effective but bloody awful kettle malark.
I do dread to think what is going to happen when they arent given any warning and a real protest happens.
Again, if you are going to protest, do it peacefully like the other guys! much more effective and (shouldnt) allow the coppers to just outthink you. with that effective but bloody awful kettle malark.
I do dread to think what is going to happen when they arent given any warning and a real protest happens.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I noticed that, too. Although the BBC did hold back a bit on both counts. I don't expect a radical perspective, but is a little less timid ambivalence too much to hope for?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
pboi said:
On the weds.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
She did. As did numerous other who were subjected to batonings.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
There are probably people who think so.
winjer
holocene death beat
http://www.geocities.com/pract_history/hyde.html#Q1994
http://www.urban75.org/j18/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/1/newsid_2480000/2480215.stm
http://www.urban75.org/mayday01/index.html
http://redpepper.blogs.com/g8/2005/07/carnival_for_fu.html
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...sh+demo+police+'were+blood+hungry'/article.do
http://jasonnparkinson.blogspot.com/2009/02/boiling-point-london-gaza-protests.html
Ahem, not "discussing organising" but plain "organising". And 200, not "thousands of police".
I am aware of the examples you have posted in your links. Nonetheless it is the case that police responded to the Poll Tax demonstration by largely avoiding confrontation with large protests. Welling was one contrary example. But here the police were fairly confident that the tens of thousands of protesters could be contained if attacked from a controlled vantage and where the organisers were far left and could not obtain sympathy from the press (the TUC having organised an alternative small 'respectable' protest elsewhere) The protests against the Criminal Justice Bill/Act were interesting in that the initial protests were policed non-violently. When the police did force confrontation it was pointedly towards the end of the day when most protesters had left the scene if I recall correctly. The huge anti-war protests were not touched but as numbers declined so the police response became ever more violent.
The point about Nottingham was that those arrested had not done anything - they were discussing doing something. This was not conspiracy to commit murder or an act of terrorism but to organise a protest. No crime had been commited - there is no charge of “conspiracy to commit aggravated trespass”. So this significant event further stretches the police role in seeking to silence dissent beyond the laws that are in place giving themn powers to do so. Yes, it was hundreds of police. sorry.
I fear there is: that if it's a statutory offence, then you can be charged with conspiring to do it.
If I recall correctly, it was only in the last 25 years (PACE 84?) that it stopped being possible to charge people with conspiracy to do something that wasn't a statutory offence. But I'm fairly massively underslept.
winjer
holocene death beat
I think you'll find there was a lot more violence on 22 March 2003 than 15 June 2008.
No they weren't, they were rendezvousing prior to doing something, they'd already discussed it, they've publically admitted as much (at least as an organization).
That's just bollocks. Section 1 of the Criminal Law Act + Section 68 of the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act.
I was at the Carnival of resistance in Edinburgh. The police violently assaulted the protesters but this was another example of police attacking a relatively small group of radical protesters - as is the case with the G20. The larger protests around the G8 were not attacked. Had they done so they may have had 'respectable' people like Bono condeming them. But in Edinburgh the media yet again parrotted the police lies pinning violence exclusively on the demonstrators. The significance of current media coverage arises from the power that lies in the hands of protesters (or passers by) with the ability to video events and to post the videos on the internet. The numbers with the ability to do this are now so great that almost every confrontation can be viewed on the net within hours. Had the BBC sought to bury the truth as regards the death of Ian Tomlinson the credibility of the BBC would have been brought into question.
Recall the BBC's coverage of Orgreave during the Miners Strike of '84/85. Here the BBC news showed a police charge in response to missiles thrown by miners. The fact that the events occured the other way around was admitted by the BBC in a belated brief apology late in the evening well after the damage had been done. Could they get away with the same today? The real events at any Orgreave will be available to all on the internet.
Could they have got away with their skewed accounts of violence at Welling if the internet had shown the real story?
It seems to me that either the state will have to clamp down on the internet or they will have to accept that the police violently assault protesters and will seek to justify this with heavy propaganda. For the moment they will most likely opt for the 'bad apple overreacting to provocation' response but where will that leave them next time and the time after?
Recall the BBC's coverage of Orgreave during the Miners Strike of '84/85. Here the BBC news showed a police charge in response to missiles thrown by miners. The fact that the events occured the other way around was admitted by the BBC in a belated brief apology late in the evening well after the damage had been done. Could they get away with the same today? The real events at any Orgreave will be available to all on the internet.
Could they have got away with their skewed accounts of violence at Welling if the internet had shown the real story?
It seems to me that either the state will have to clamp down on the internet or they will have to accept that the police violently assault protesters and will seek to justify this with heavy propaganda. For the moment they will most likely opt for the 'bad apple overreacting to provocation' response but where will that leave them next time and the time after?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Exactly, which is - as has been said - why the attempted ban on photographing police.
Indeed.
Absolutely.
Quite.
Excellent post, Grouch.
winjer
holocene death beat
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
betcha not brave enough to mee tup with some people from here...
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