xes
F.O.A.D
That's the same thread
G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP
- Thread starter e19896
- Start date
I wouldn't disagree with anything that Sonny61 wrote about what might happen in the future.
However like in any criminal case it is the right of the defence to present the case within the rules. It applies to any case and is the core of British law.
If the evidence is there then the truth will out. Courts of law and jury's are very good at this.
But Sonny is right...one push does not make a case. There is a whole books of law devoted to cause and effect and therefore you have to let the process run its' course.
Still its' hard to justify the CCTV footage and whether its' a criminal offence or not it still does the police no good at all in that light.
However like in any criminal case it is the right of the defence to present the case within the rules. It applies to any case and is the core of British law.
If the evidence is there then the truth will out. Courts of law and jury's are very good at this.
But Sonny is right...one push does not make a case. There is a whole books of law devoted to cause and effect and therefore you have to let the process run its' course.
Still its' hard to justify the CCTV footage and whether its' a criminal offence or not it still does the police no good at all in that light.
Wouldn't work. Would like to see the system of an examining magistrate as in some countries where the police are able to work under an independent and constant review and let the CPS prosecute those cases which have been reviewed first and meet the standard. We need to get the CPS away from the figures game where they look at the way public money is spent before they look at the victims needs.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Apart from the fact that he doesn't countenance the possibility of a GBH or ABH charge being lodged instead of manslaughter, and on the video evidence available i would say that these charges have much more chance of succeeding, and I would say that much of what sonny writes was, and is, utter nonsense tbf.
So if I had a bad day at work I'm allowed to take it out on any passer-by I might encounter on my way home? I don't think it works like that.
It's part of a police officer's job to maintain his or her professionalism even when people don't like them. Anyone who cannot do that should not be trusted with the authority a police officer has. This thug's actions have made things more difficult for every officer in the country.
lopsidedbunny
Active Member
G20 death: Ian Tomlinson's last movements
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2009/apr/08/g20-police-assault-ian-tomlinson
I still think he was rubbernecking like the rest of us I don't buy this "walking home" business, he has live and worked in London for over ten years and worked all over London as I've seen him working at the Embankment Tube Station what's more he would had known where the protest was as he was selling newspapers, if he wanted to go home then he of all would had know a better way around the police cordon. It's his wife that insist that "he was walking home". I would rather get to the truth of the matter than a half bake story.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2009/apr/08/g20-police-assault-ian-tomlinson
I still think he was rubbernecking like the rest of us I don't buy this "walking home" business, he has live and worked in London for over ten years and worked all over London as I've seen him working at the Embankment Tube Station what's more he would had known where the protest was as he was selling newspapers, if he wanted to go home then he of all would had know a better way around the police cordon. It's his wife that insist that "he was walking home". I would rather get to the truth of the matter than a half bake story.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
It did work for several centuries, albeit with its own flaws. I don't see why we need a prosecution service at all; it creates yet another tier of bureaucracy, and undermines the ancient idea that "police are citizens, and citizens are the police". A Director of Public Prosecutions for serious cases is sensible, but in others, why couldn't the police or other accusers prosecute as they once did?
If accusers could prosecute without interference from the state, it would dispel much of the frustration felt by victims of crime, and prevent cries of "cover-up" in cases like this. (Not saying they're justified, but the perception often exists.)
As for investigative magistrates, the common law had them once, but got rid of them in the mid-19th century because it's a near-impossible job.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
At the very least this should mean that police should visibly wear their numbers.
So, are these FIT officers? There are several more milling about in the Ian Tomlinson assault video, but it’s a bit too choppy to see much on the YouTube version.
Commenter Ed on Ian Bone’s blog has suggested that Stephen Discombe CO2558 might be present.
Any thoughts?
So? Even if that's true (seriously, who knows?), taking an interest in a protest is hardly provocation. Protests don't take place in a vacuum.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Doesn't matter why he was there, it does matter how he was treated.
Diversion. 0/10
Brother Mouzone
Ⓐnarcho-Cynicism
What fucking difference does that make?
As far as I'm aware it's not a crime (yet) to be interested in a protest or to choose a different route on the way home.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
It doesn't matter where he was walking; he didn't deserve to be hit on the back of his legs with a baton, and shoved onto the ground from behind.
He was "going about his lawful business".
lopsidedbunny
Active Member
I too was walking home too. Sigh!* of course it make no differences.
Diversion. 0/10
Diversion. 0/10
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
And in answer to all those claiming that it wasn't the cops trying to cover up anything after Mr Tomlinson's death, these words from the Guardian make for some powerful rebuttal:
The Guardian has gathered statements from 15 witnesses who saw Tomlinson to piece together a forensic reconstruction his movements. This directly contradicts the official version of events put out by police in the aftermath of Tomlinson's death. The witnesses accuse police of lashing at protesters and bystanders alike, attacking them with batons, shields and dogs. Officers are alleged to have attacked Tomlinson twice; both times from behind and as he was walking away. Eight witnesses produced photographic evidence, time- and date-stamped, that corroborates their version of events. Three said they saw Tomlinson being assaulted by riot police. grauniad
The Guardian has gathered statements from 15 witnesses who saw Tomlinson to piece together a forensic reconstruction his movements. This directly contradicts the official version of events put out by police in the aftermath of Tomlinson's death. The witnesses accuse police of lashing at protesters and bystanders alike, attacking them with batons, shields and dogs. Officers are alleged to have attacked Tomlinson twice; both times from behind and as he was walking away. Eight witnesses produced photographic evidence, time- and date-stamped, that corroborates their version of events. Three said they saw Tomlinson being assaulted by riot police. grauniad
So from what you say, he was rubbernecking, was well known could this mean by the murdering scum the police? you see this dose not add up at all..
Lets say he was looking for a beter way home he found himself in the protest, at that time the murdering scum of the police was makeing shure those at The Bank was not getting to climate camp, he was in the wrong place wrong time, and the police attacked him, that in my mind lead to his death, this is murder and as said if it was the other way round people would be charged, now we go through this bullshit, and no doubt the murdering scum walk away from there actions.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
What on earth are you babbling on about?
Garcia Lorca
Anger can be power
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
xes
F.O.A.D
makes me feel better though.
editor
hiraethified
Utter bullshit. The cordon was widespread, flexible and dynamic and when we waked to the Climate Camp seemingly random roads would be blocked off, meaning we had to walk a considerably longer route to get there.
I see no reason why this couldn't have applied to Mr Tomlinson too.
Were you at the protest by the way?
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
you might have noticed that over the past few days, a great deal of material has surfaced through blogs and bulletin boards that has helped raise publicity on this case to a level that simply wouldn't have happened if a bunch of goons were posting videos of coppers getting a kicking or giving a kicking. think about it eh?
Garcia Lorca
Anger can be power
you can understand the raised feelings tho? i also think its unhelpful to start calling other people "goons" for this time of response.
Think about it, yes your right. think about name calling to it has no place in this thread.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
CCTV footage of this?
xes
F.O.A.D
I get your point, but if it does happen in the future, the police will have nobody to blame but themselves. And I will let out a hearty laugh.
This would indeed be very interesting and indicative of the systemic failure of the police force(I'm guessing that none of them have filed this action in any report). That is of course assuming that the police actually wants to uphold justice rather than power.
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