Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

32,000 scientists dissent from global-warming “consensus”

It's the climaloons that are claiming that water can produce gravity defying effects. YOU provide a credible source to back your theory up. :p

No-one has claimed water can produce gravity defying effects.

Please provide proof for your theory that sea levels around the world will all rise at exactly the same rate, and that sea levels around the globe are the same, everywhere.
 
Oh dear. You have a broken packet again.
If the land level rises due to isostatic uplift (through glacial rebound and tectonic activity the land is pushed up or down) then the Local Mean Sea Level (LMSL - see 1) in sea-level glossary below) will change, because the land-benchmark which we measure 'sea level' against will have changed.

That's because the land level has changed. Not because sea levels have fallen.

Furthermore, the measurement known as 'sea level' (at zero metres) is relative:
Then it's pointless using this method to define how sea levels will be affected by global warming then as sea level will fall where glaciers are melting (i.e. Greenland) and rise where glaciers are increasing (i.e parts of antarctica).
 
No-one has claimed water can produce gravity defying effects.

Please provide proof for your theory that sea levels around the world will all rise at exactly the same rate, and that sea levels around the globe are the same, everywhere.

Please show that when I fill my bath only the tap end fills while the rest of the bath remains empty. :p
 
Sorry but your the moron if you think that sea level can rise significantly in localised areas without that sea being land locked. :rolleyes:

It's a simple law of physics.
Ah no.

topex.gif




topex-el-nino-540-539.jpg


http://oceanmotion.org/html/gatheringdata/satellites.htm


From the TOPEX POSIEDON satalite.

It does due to wind, air pressure, temperature and other factors. Its so importent they sent up a satalite to monitor it.


edited to add another picture
topex_320x240_web.jpg
 
Ah yes, silly me not taking waves into account. :rolleyes:
You really are pretty dumb. Tee hee are you bigfish's aprentice perchance. The scientists at NASA, Woodshole and all those places are not as stupid as you and measure the average sea hight with satalites not just "the waves".

But do carry on arguing that basic oceanography is all wrong. Its tres amusing.
 
Ah yes, silly me not taking waves into account. :rolleyes:

You also forgot we're dealing with an rotating, oblate ellipsoid which doesn't have a level surface.

If the oceans did not move, and were not affected by winds and air pressure, then MSS and geoid would be the same surfaces. However, there are steady currents in the ocean, driven by winds and atmospheric heating and cooling, which give rise to differences in sea level around the world. Therefore, the MSS is not a 'level' surface, and it departs from the geoid (which is) by about 1-2 m, even after averaging out the effects of tides and other time-dependent motions. For example, the Atlantic Ocean north of the Gulf Stream is about 1 m lower than further south (see 4), and the Atlantic as a whole is about 40 cm lower than the Pacific. There is even a sea level difference of about 20 cm across the Panama Canal
http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/puscience/#3

That's a very good explanation of why sea levels are different in different parts of the world. Please read it.
 
Ah yes, silly me not taking waves into account. :rolleyes:
Do you actually know how much air pressure affects sea level? Some parts of the world have persistent low pressure - west Pacific for example. Some have persistent high pressure - east Pacific for example. This difference causes a significant difference in sea level as the sea 'bulges' in the low pressure' and is forced down by the high. Did you know this?
 
I'm now sort of wondering how WouldBe thinks tides work ...

Or if he thinks they can't exist due to 'water always finds its own level'
 
'Finds it's own level' - reminds me of the argument put forward by a Mail columnist that ses levels wouldn't rise when the ice caps melted on the basis that 'When you put an ice cube into a nearly full glass of water, when it melts it doesn't make the water spill over the side (I say water, in the article it was probably gin)
 
April 2008: IPCC position on predicted sea-level rise.
.

Btw, if this is right, it means the IPCC has revised its predictions yet again, this time within the space of one year: from two feet, to a max of meters.

If they are that uncertain, how much credence should we put in any of their predictions?
 
Clever, but no banana for you, Canuck.
You just managed to label yourself as a man in denial of climate change - a close-minded zealot.rl]

You've just labeled yourself a person who can't read.:)

My position on climate change is this: there is much uncertainty, and constant revision of predictions. It is by no means a closed book. What that means, is that research should continue, and the debate continue.

On that note, I'm alarmed by the fact that those who accept climate change, seem to take on the doctrine like Articles of Faith, and become Crusaders, instead of seekers of truth, and they attempt to stifle dissent, like the worst christian or ultranationalist fanatic.

If we must make hard economic choices for the future, I believe those choices should be based on the best science has to offer, after a rigorous and open debate.
 
You keep saying that bigfish, but:

a) it's not true

b) it's just a graph that Exxon PR people make a big effort to attack because it's striking and easy for the general public to understand, no important part of the scientific case hangs on the 'hockey stick' graph itself.

The hockey stick graph was incorrect, and in determining what to do about that fact, the IPCC approached it like a political problem, not like a scientific one.
 
Johnny Canuck said:
On that note, I'm alarmed by the fact that those who accept climate change, seem to take on the doctrine like Articles of Faith, and become Crusaders, instead of seekers of truth, and they attempt to stifle dissent, like the worst christian or ultranationalist fanatic.

Acceptance of climate change does not require faith, nor is that acceptance comparable to ethno-nationalism.

Professional sceptics (e.g. Marohasy) and various types of deniers - from professional to amateur - attract an audience of people who are scared of climate change.

Frightened people may well take on the characteristics you describe - crusaders, stiflers of dissent, parroting sceptical dogma they've gleaned from the prophets who say 'fear not, the scientists are doomongers'. I don't underestimate how scary climate change may sound to someone whose parents never taught them about the precession of the equinoxes or glacial cycles, and I don't think you should either, Canuck.

Bernie Gunther doesn't deserve the shtick that you and bigfish are giving him, and I object strongly to you labelling him 'a Believer' - he has a fine scientific mind and understands both the science and the politics of climate change.
 
Which truth: the IPCC truth [max two feet] or your alarmist truth?

What truth have I discussed here that you find alarmist, Canuck?

Also, fyi, I don't read IPCC reports.
I mainly read peer-reviewed research in academic journals but I refrain from linking to them.
I prefer to link to science-news articles that summarise or inform of up-to-date research in simpler terms (for fear of coming across as too technical). If you'd prefer, I can just link to journals, but there's little point because not everyone here will have free access to them, and some articles cost £36+ dollars to purchase. It's all about accessibility, isn't it.

Johnny Canuck2 said:
You've just labeled yourself a person who can't read.
I read in several languages, not all 'european'.

Johnny Canuck2 said:
Do you also believe the prediction that the seas will boil?
I've never read of such a thing until you mention it here. Where does that come from (name, source, date) and why do you consider such nonsense worth discussing in a serious debate?

e2a: actually, don't bother with the boiling seas thing - that's apocalyptic language and could not possibly come from reputable source - it sounds like a the sort of thing that a sceptic would claim that science predicts. I, and others here really do have more important things to do with their time other than refute the ridiculous.
 
You quote a news story. When I put forward something the IPCC says, I quote the IPCC itself, not some interpretation by a journalist.
You're a liar.

the prediction that the seas will boil
Provide a citation for this claim.

My position on climate change is this: there is much uncertainty, and constant revision of predictions. It is by no means a closed book.
No it isn't. You have constantly posted up the same old bullshit on all the threads on this subject over the years, and you have not shown any inclination to learn anything from the replies you have been given (see last paragraph for example). You have consistently used dishonest debating tactics (example quoted below), you have made up false quotes both for other posters and for the IPCC. So trying to backpedal and paint yourself as a fence-sitter isn't going to work.

On that note, I'm alarmed by the fact that those who accept climate change, seem to take on the doctrine like Articles of Faith, and become Crusaders, instead of seekers of truth, and they attempt to stifle dissent, like the worst christian or ultranationalist fanatic.
Poisoning the well. :rolleyes:

The hockey stick graph was incorrect
You've been saying that for at least 3 years on these boards, but it still isn't true.
 
The problem, as I see it, was identified nicely by Al Gore. He talked about a 'generational mission'. Defeating climate change, was to become the raison d'etre of a whole generation.

A generational mission isn't a bad idea, and I think it's one that resonates with humans. I think humans like to, perhaps crave to, join into something bigger than themselves. They want and like an all encompassing cause that they can devote their time, energy, and emotion to. They like to belong, and they're happiest when they think the belonging is for something Good.

This craving to belong was satisified for the longest time by being a member of a tribe, or some other group whose goal was survival. Then, as survival became a bit easier, and structure developed, we got religion, and that satisfied many people for a long time. Still does, for some people.

But one of the outcomes of the modern world, had been the stripping away of many of the old belief structures that we used to cling to. Lots of people don't have religion, they have tenuous family ties, etc. There's nothing but themselves, but inside, they want something more.

So along comes this new Crusade: the defeat of climate change. This has a lot of appeal: it appears to be a worthy good cause, it is appealing to those who don't like capitalism and the modern world of consumerism, because it apparently means a curbing of those things, and maybe there is a touch of atonement in it, a bit of suffering for all the wrongs we've done in the name of consumerism and individualism.

So people line up to join. Oh, I forgot to mention another factor in their desire to join: fear. Not only does it seem a good idea, but the media generated fear, via wild overstatements etc, has made it seem like joining immediately, and going great guns, is an imperative.


Which brings us to the difficulty. When people buy into a belief system like this, it is done on more than an intellectual level. It is done on an emotional and visceral level as well. It stops just being something they believe in: they internalize it. It becomes them, in part, and they become it. They identify with it.

And so, when you question this theory that they believe in, you aren't just questioning the theory. In their minds, in their hearts, you are questioning part of their very identity. You are questioning the thing that gets them out of bed in the morning.

And so the response isn't a measured, scientific one: it's a hysterical one, with yelling and screaming, and demonizing the evil ones who are calling into question all that is sacred.


Does this sound like an exaggeration? Just look at those quotes of mine above, from people who compare those who have questions about climate change, with pedophiles and holocaust deniers. People who call for Nuremburg trials for questioners.

These aren't the responses of individuals involved in a scientific debate. These are the responses of acolytes faced with the abomination of heresy.
 
Climate change is not a belief system!

post 776 deserves no response other than to c&p it into the search engine to see who is promulgating this nonsense.

As I said before - it's the sceptics who exhibit dogma and place their faith in their 'refutation' of climate change.
 
Johnny Canuck2? Thought better of you...

What are you smoking?

Whatever it is, it's not the stuff of seers and clear-sight, and it deserves a warning in the drugs forum for people to avoid if they want to retain their critical faculties . . .
 
post 776 deserves no response other than to c&p it into the search engine to see who is promulgating this nonsense..

Please: search every word of it on every engine you can dig up. Spend all the hours at it you can spare, and more. :)

The post got made during the five or ten minutes it took me to type it. I'm your promulgator.:D
 
Back
Top Bottom