Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
It's public and the newspapers can read all about it. Friends of friends on email can snowball, but not with the same regularity as with social networking sites, if you ask me.
tube party on june 1st?
- Thread starter bluestreak
- Start date
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Except that the last SH CL party was also huge and got out of hand in terms of numbers (IMO). The popularity was already climbing even back then.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
If people didn't insist on antisocial drinking on the tube in the first place, there wouldn't have been a need for the law, would there?
ajdown
Posting in this thread
People do seem to dislike being reminded that they are behaving antisocially and breaking the law, yes. No respect these days.
winjer
holocene death beat
It's only public if people choose to make it so. I think it has more to do with the near-ubiquity of internet use than social networking, but perhaps the two go hand-in-hand.
Also facebook is the current media darling (it was secondlife last year). Someone setups a facebook group with a couple of thousand people in it and the its apparently newsworthy.
I don't think they even bothered doing that - looks as though the Press Association took shorthand from plod and its customers stuck their own bylines on the top.
The BBC did send someone - who claims to be called "Gareth Furby".
citydreams
on the road again
..says the person who doesn't want to socialise with people anyway
The law is an ass. And so are you if you think that those who impose it will ever be respected.
editor
hiraethified
But there wasn't all these arrests or wild claims of damage.
And your evidence for the implied connection between the two is ...
It's self-anecdotal i know, but since Ive been in london (nearly 9 years) I can't think of a single incident of that kind (people on the tube drinking and being antisocial). I'm not saying it hasnt happened, but it wasnt quite the plague on your house that it was presented as.
The reason the change came in was simple. It was something Boris could be seen to do immediately (since he's in control of TFL and can make byelaws) that would play well in the papers & the rest of the country. It could have been anything, they just happened to choose this.
Now that is the big question ... where is the evidence for significant levels of "antisocial drinking" on the tube?
editor
hiraethified
If the law doesn't respect people's right to go about their business lawfully (i.e. enjoying a quiet drink on the tube), then why should you expect people to dutifully obey it when they're causing no harm to anyone?
Or do you think people should just accept whatever rash, ill thought out, fun-spoiling legislation is dreamt up in pointless, knee jerk PR gestures?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
The anti-social non-drinkers who you should worry about
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
No, but the point I'm trying to make is that the ubiquity of social networking sites means that everyone and his dog can find out about these things very quickly, as can the press. The earlier CL parties worked because the group sizes were small, everyone knew the rules and knowledge of the event was limited. But the trend over time was for each succesive one to be more popular than the last. If they'd carried on with such regular parties, I have no doubt that it would have got as big and as uncontrolled as it did last night.
editor
hiraethified
Exactly, There was already ample legislation in place for drunk and disorderly conduct on the tube and passengers have the right to be protected from them, but there seems scant evidence for mass social ills being inflicted by people having a can on the tube.Now that is the big question ... where is the evidence for significant levels of "antisocial drinking" on the tube?
I'm not talking about people challenging significant antisocial behaviour. I'm talking about fuckwit busybodies confronting people about things which really don't matter, in ways that are outrageously confrontational in themselves and winding up the situations that then escalate. (Including at least three on buses where I've ended up having to intervene to calm them down again ...
)the button
out on the kocker
It's what is known in management consultancy circles as a "quick win."* I.e. if you want to make a series of changes, do something early on which might not have much long-term impact, but which will be highly visible.
And we know Boris used to work for a management consultancy. Although not for long.
*
at self for knowing this.
editor
hiraethified
I'm not so sure to be honest. If it was a meaningful act of defiance and protest rather then a whizzo-beano-look-at-me-I'm-on-Facebook (i.e. if it was held after the ban) it would have been unlikely to have been anywhere near as popular.
This event was all over the traditional media and hyped to the max, so it's no wonder so many people got involved, but I doubt that any subsequent similar actions will generate anywhere near as much publicity as this one.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
I absolutely agree. I have (apart from a short sojourn in a rural non-idyll) have spent the best part of five decades in London. I have thought long and hard and can only think of one incident on the tube where someone had drink with them and was being an arsehole.
I have seen plenty of drunks behaving like arseholes on public transport but they've got tanked up in pubs and at parties and are using public transport to get elsewhere.
I've seen plenty of drunks on public transport who have been perfectly well behaved.
I have seen plenty of perfectly sober people behaving worse than arseholes on public transport. Plenty of those....hey Boris! SOLUTION! Ban people off public transport! That's where the problem lies!
winjer
holocene death beat
Direct observation of a predictable scenario. For over two hours there was little more than harsh words exchanged, then 2/3rds a serial of TSG turned up, formed a line with some of the CoLP Level 1s and shoved the remaining crowd towards the Bishopsgate entrance, which as any sane person could have guessed resulted in a bottleneck on the narrow stairs and escalators, some of the crowd took exception, batons drawn, heads cracked, etc.
It wouldn't have taken a great deal of intelligence to realise that the Moorgate end, with its wide ramp would have been a better option than fighting hand-to-ASP up stairs...
Ah....!
But Tabatha and Tarquin have finally got hold of the concept as it breathes its last and being read its last rites.
Best be careful who we're dragging in on this particular evening Cunstable Rileth...
Evenin' all.
winjer
holocene death beat
Which of the previous CLPs was promoted as a meaningful act of defiance and protest?
editor
hiraethified
None. Did I say that any were?
winjer
holocene death beat
Not quite, but at several points you've implied a qualitative difference between this event for originating on Facebook and those. I'm trying to establish what it is, apart from pure antipathy towards Facebook for inherent yet unnameable evil.
Various alternative scenarios could explain what you conclude though, couldn't they? E.G.:
1. The situation, originally policed by a few BTP / CoLP, starts to get out of hand. They call for help. The Met turn up. The "getting out of hand" would have continued whether or not the Met did or not (and would probably have ended up worse if they hadn't.
2. The situation has reached the point where it is necessary to get the crowd out of the station. The BTP and CoLP are unable to do that themselves and so do not attempt it until help arrives. The Met arrives and the crowd are moved. The crowd don't like being told what to do and get arsey. But they would have done at that point, regardless of who was doing the telling.
(And it is interesting that despite the clear implication in the initial post that it was aggressive Met policing which caused it to kick off, you do not describe that at all - you describe a poor choice of tactics which, given that it was not within Met jurisdiction, would probably have been selected by BTP and / or CoLP.)
I'll name it.
It's infested by fuckwits, who really would do better getting a life instead of jumping on board the latest passing fad ...
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