Saudi gang rape victim sentenced to lashes and prison

butchersapron · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
itd be a loooong day if i bothered with every idiot i encountered

Too right, you're too busy going around imposing your morals on women's flesh anyway.

Grandma Death · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
because the burden of proof is so heavy, u need 2 have 4 witnesses that actually see the act, which is obviously gonna be a very rare thing.

4 someone 2 get caught theyd practically have 2 be doing it in the middle of town,
but the same way the deterrent aspect is enough 4 most ppl that might be inclined 2 cheat on their spouse.

So in other words you cannot say categorically that it actually works as a deterrent then?

fattboy · Jan 1, 2008

a couple of hadiths(verified statements) from the Prophet peace be upon him about the high status of women

'The best among u is the one who is best 2wards his wife' (Muslim no.3466)

A man came 2 Allah's apostle peace be upon him and said 'o Allah's apostle, who is more entitled 2 be treated with the best companionship by me?'
The Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man said'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man further said 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man asked 4 the fourth time 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur father'
(Bukhari 8.2)

The Prophet peace be upon him said;
'When i stand 4 prayer i intend 2 prolong it, but on hearing the cries of a child i cut it short, as i dislike 2 trouble the childs mother'
(Bukhari 1.675)

ive referenced the books so anyone can check em out with sheikh google

fattboy · Jan 1, 2008

Grandma Death said:
So in other words you cannot say categorically that it actually works as a deterrent then?

yeah of course it is, that doesnt mean it never ever happens

but 4 most ppl that might be inclined 2 it it deters them

david dissadent · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
regarding pork, all the scientific evidence points 2 it not being good 2 eat, even the latest cooking methods cannot get rid of tiny harmful organisms it contains, the fact that pigs will eat anything including feaces and do not have the neccessary digestive abilities 2 purify what they eat and that doctors reccomend ppl in bad health 2 completely avoid it altogether should be enough proof of how harmful pork is 2 ur health.

Total scientific rubbish. Pork is no more unhealthy than any of the other staple red meats.

After years of arguing science with intelligent designers and young earth creationists, at least this is a bit different.

I am trying to work out whether my derailing post is worth it or not?

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
again Mike, if theres any evidence, please bring it, id love 2 see it.
no-one admitted rape and no-one was convicted.

can u give an example of Islam not being able 2 adapt 2 changes in the world, Islam came 4 all people in all places, we have scholars who make rulings based on evidences from the sharia on new advances that didnt exist at the time of the revelation and havent been dealt with b4.

4 example, smoking, in Islam anything thats bad 4 ones health is 2 be avoided but at the time of the Prophet peace be upon him, smoking was unknown, but there r verses from the Quran and statements made by the Prophet peace be upon him which basically go along the lines of avoiding that which is harmful such as alcohol and this can be applied 2 smoking in light of the scientific evidence that smoking is harmful 2 ones health.

regarding pork, all the scientific evidence points 2 it not being good 2 eat, even the latest cooking methods cannot get rid of tiny harmful organisms it contains, the fact that pigs will eat anything including feaces and do not have the neccessary digestive abilities 2 purify what they eat and that doctors reccomend ppl in bad health 2 completely avoid it altogether should be enough proof of how harmful pork is 2 ur health.

nothing in Islam is prohibited just 4 the sake of it, theres a wisdom behind it, and women r protected in our religion, and in no way second class.
we believe men and women r equal, but not the same.
ive yet 2 see a man give birth or an army send units of solely women 2 fight while the men stay at home.
theres obvious differences, physically and emotionally, and men r the mantainers of women, responsible 4 looking after them,
this isnt degrading women its just recognising the obvious differences in our make up.

ill bring some proofs about the high status of women in Islam in a bit, GodWilling.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7098480.stm

...
According to the Arab News newspaper, the 19-year-old woman was gang-raped 14 times in an attack in Qatif in the eastern province a year-and-a-half ago.
Seven men were found guilty of the rape and sentenced to prison terms ranging from just under a year to five years.
...

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CC37D61F-FD20-498C-B106-4B6F4DE208BC.htm

This week the shocking story from Saudi Arabia of a 19-year-old woman gang-raped by seven men. Bravely, she went to court, and the rapists were jailed. But in an extraordinary twist, the young woman was sentenced to 90 lashes for admitting to being in the company of an unrelated male shortly before the incident - the man she was with was also gang-raped.
...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=3899920

...
The seven attackers were convicted of rape with sentences that ranged from two to nine years in prison, according to Arab News.
...

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=69400

Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah has pardoned a teenage girl sentenced to six months in jail and 200 lashes after being gang raped, Al Jazirah newspaper reported on Monday

Are you still contending that no-one was convicted of rape?

If Islamic law does not treat women as 2nd class, how comes so many women are denied the vote, not permitted to drive and so on.

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
yeah of course it is, that doesnt mean it never ever happens

but 4 most ppl that might be inclined 2 it it deters them

Whoopie do, it turns out that this girl didn't even commit adultery!

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
Grandma death,because the burden of proof is so heavy, u need 2 have 4 witnesses that actually see the act, which is obviously gonna be a very rare thing.

4 someone 2 get caught theyd practically have 2 be doing it in the middle of town,
but the same way the deterrent aspect is enough 4 most ppl that might be inclined 2 cheat on their spouse.

So all it needs is four people to SAY that they saw the adultery. How difficult do you think that is when seven people were involved in the rape!

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

invisibleplanet said:
This is just rubbish. Think BSE, and then reconsider whether these rules belong to centuries ago, or whether they're still valid today. I say they're still valid today - do you want spinal cord or the meat of diseased animals in your food chain, or not? If Kosher/Halal rules had been followed, there'd have been no concern, since those are prohibited.

That was poor practices, nothing to do with religious laws. Alot of the other rules make no sense when fridges can be used. The rules are not entirely about meat production.

Blagsta · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
this is the prescribed punishment in the Sharia 4 someone whos married and commits adultery

if u dont believe in the hereafter where we r going 2 be judged 4 our actions, or that we face some bad consequences from it in this life its gonna be hard 4 u 2 accept

adultery in the wests been so downgraded its almost acceptable now, so i understand why u see it as heavyhanded, i used 2 think the same, i wasnt born in2 a muslim family and theres lots of things about Islam i used 2 think were harsh but when the proof of the truth of Islam is brought 2 u u just accept its 4 the best, our knowledge isnt absolute or perfect, only the One who Created us has that.

if u understand this u just accept the wisdom behind it.
we dont believe sex is wrong or dirty or anything like that, its something 2 be enjoyed but it has 2 be done within marriage because the problems that come otherwise r massive in many different ways.

its not nice 2 see happen, but this is what makes it such a strong deterrent.

I don't believe in the hereafter. It's a fiction, a story to make people feel better about their life.

Personally, I think it's fucking vile that you approve of stoning someone to death for a human weakness. It's wrong, it's sick and you're a disgusting vile person for thinking it's OK. Fuck you and fuck sharia law. :mad:

scumbag

fattboy · Jan 1, 2008

MikeMcc said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7098480.stm

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CC37D61F-FD20-498C-B106-4B6F4DE208BC.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=3899920

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=69400

Are you still contending that no-one was convicted of rape?

If Islamic law does not treat women as 2nd class, how comes so many women are denied the vote, not permitted to drive and so on.

alright fair enough, i honestly thought no-one was convicted

it doesnt change the fact that she admitted 2 having an affair with another man, the man she was with in the car, thats what her sentence was 4, not being raped!

fattboy · Jan 1, 2008

MikeMcc said:
So all it needs is four people to SAY that they saw the adultery. How difficult do you think that is when seven people were involved in the rape!

would this whole debacle even have happened if she wasnt having cheating on her husband?

Poot · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
would this whole debacle even have happened if she wasnt having cheating on her husband?

Are you suggesting, even for a moment, that in some way she deserved to be raped for cheating on her husband?

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
would this whole debacle even have happened if she wasnt having cheating on her husband?

And if you bothered to look at the links I provided you would have found she wasn't! All's still Ok for you on Planet Fattboy then? Do you really have any clue about this story?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=3899920&page=1

"I [was] 19 years old. I had a relationship with someone on the phone. We were both 16. I had never seen him before. I just knew his voice. He started to threaten me, and I got afraid. He threatened to tell my family about the relationship. Because of the threats and fear, I agreed to give him a photo of myself," she recounted.

"A few months [later], I asked him for the photo back but he refused. I had gotten married to another man. He said, 'I'll give you the photo on the condition that you come out with me in my car.' I told him we could meet at a souk [market[ near my neighborhood city plaza in Qatif.

"He started to drive me home. …We were 15 minutes from my house. I told him that I was afraid and that he should speed up. We were about to turn the corner to my house when they [another car] stopped right in front of our car. Two people got out of their car and stood on either side of our car. They man on my side had a knife. They tried to open our door. I told the individual with me not to open the door, but he did. He let them come in. I screamed.

Blagsta · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
alright fair enough, i honestly thought no-one was convicted

it doesnt change the fact that she admitted 2 having an affair with another man, the man she was with in the car, thats what her sentence was 4, not being raped!

Oh well, in that case, that's OK then.

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

Women are so highly thought of that according to United Nations Population Fund the estimated annual worldwide total of honour-killing victims may be up to 5,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

ajk · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
a couple of hadiths(verified statements) from the Prophet peace be upon him about the high status of women

'The best among u is the one who is best 2wards his wife' (Muslim no.3466)

A man came 2 Allah's apostle peace be upon him and said 'o Allah's apostle, who is more entitled 2 be treated with the best companionship by me?'
The Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man said'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man further said 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man asked 4 the fourth time 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur father'
(Bukhari 8.2)

The Prophet peace be upon him said;
'When i stand 4 prayer i intend 2 prolong it, but on hearing the cries of a child i cut it short, as i dislike 2 trouble the childs mother'
(Bukhari 1.675)

ive referenced the books so anyone can check em out with sheikh google

No, these statements refer to the "high status" of wives and mothers.

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
a couple of hadiths(verified statements) from the Prophet peace be upon him about the high status of women

'The best among u is the one who is best 2wards his wife' (Muslim no.3466)

A man came 2 Allah's apostle peace be upon him and said 'o Allah's apostle, who is more entitled 2 be treated with the best companionship by me?'
The Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man said'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man further said 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man asked 4 the fourth time 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur father'
(Bukhari 8.2)

The Prophet peace be upon him said;
'When i stand 4 prayer i intend 2 prolong it, but on hearing the cries of a child i cut it short, as i dislike 2 trouble the childs mother'
(Bukhari 1.675)

ive referenced the books so anyone can check em out with sheikh google

Does your Quran substitute 4 for 'for' and 2 for 'to'?

invisibleplanet · Jan 1, 2008

fattboy said:
a couple of hadiths(verified statements) from the Prophet peace be upon him about the high status of women

'The best among u is the one who is best 2wards his wife' (Muslim no.3466)

A man came 2 Allah's apostle peace be upon him and said 'o Allah's apostle, who is more entitled 2 be treated with the best companionship by me?'
The Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man said'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man further said 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur mother'
the man asked 4 the fourth time 'who is next?'
the Prophet peace be upon him said 'ur father'
(Bukhari 8.2)

The Prophet peace be upon him said;
'When i stand 4 prayer i intend 2 prolong it, but on hearing the cries of a child i cut it short, as i dislike 2 trouble the childs mother'
(Bukhari 1.675)

ive referenced the books so anyone can check em out with sheikh google

What is this? Hadith according to P Diddy?

invisibleplanet · Jan 1, 2008

MikeMcc said:
Does your Quran substitute 4 for 'for' and 2 for 'to'?

Simply, it doesn't add up, does it?

MikeMcc · Jan 1, 2008

invisibleplanet said:
Simply, it doesn't add up, does it?

I'd love to see the Imam's reaction to someone who treated the Quran with that much dis-respect.

goldenecitrone · Jan 2, 2008

I wouldn't take too seriously the words of a Prophet who had 6 with little girls. :eek:

Grandma Death · Jan 2, 2008

fattboy said:
but 4 most ppl that might be inclined 2 it it deters them

Is this why the US, that has the death penalty in most states, has one of the highest murder rates in the world?

MikeMcc · Jan 2, 2008

Grandma Death said:
Is this why the US, that has the death penalty in most states, has one of the highest murder rates in the world?

Yet equally well armed communities in Canada don't have a particularly high murder rate despite NOT having the death penalty.

Spion · Jan 2, 2008

goldenecitrone said:
I wouldn't take too seriously the words of a Prophet who had 6 with little girls.

I wouldn't take too seriously stories of a prophet who supposedly spoke with god in a cave or who went on a journey to heaven and met all the previous prophets. In fact I wouldn't take seriously too much about Muhammad because there's actually no evidence he existed and AFAIK the oldest Islamic documents date from at least 200 years after he is supposed to have lived.

But even more than all that I wouldn't take seriously a person who just says 'Muhammad is a paedo' cos it's clear they are happy to brainlessly regurgitate the one myth that anti-Muslim bigots love to throw around

CyberRose · Jan 2, 2008

Does anybody here actually think fattboy is really a Muslim? I mean come on! If he is he fits into every right-wing stereotype of Muslims there is!

nino_savatte · Jan 2, 2008

fattboy said:
sure am

I'll bet you are...though I suspect that you're more of a returner.

invisibleplanet · Jan 2, 2008

MikeMcc said:
If Islamic law does not treat women as 2nd class, how comes so many women are denied the vote, not permitted to drive and so on.

Saudi law?

Women weren't allowed access to the banking system (loans/business finance/mortgages) or to own a house until the latter part of the 1970s in Britain.

_angel_ · Jan 2, 2008

invisibleplanet said:
Saudi law?

Women weren't allowed access to the banking system (loans/business finance/mortgages) or to own a house until the latter part of the 1970s in Britain.

In order to criticise the Saudi state, do we have to also criticise everything that ever happened in the UK??

nino_savatte · Jan 2, 2008

invisibleplanet said:
Saudi law?

Women weren't allowed access to the banking system (loans/business finance/mortgages) or to own a house until the latter part of the 1970s in Britain.

Quite and it still isn't perfect for women in this country. Women are still earning less than men because they are women and this is in spite of equal ops legislation.

Saudi gang rape victim sentenced to lashes and prison

Bring back hanging

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Minimum cage, maximum cage

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that's a shame

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