nino_savatte
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durruti02 said:
"Constant smears and lies against [me] you"? You're a fantasist.
Why do peoples not understand that immigration is currently based on 'pull'?
- Thread starter durruti02
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"Constant smears and lies against [me] you"? You're a fantasist.
I think I've underestimated what durrutti was talking about in the OP. I was reading through some of the COMPAS articles and came across this one:
Numbers vs. Rights: Trade-offs and guest worker programmes
Its about how the lack of immigrant rights, in particular workplace rights, actually encourages larger scale 'low skill' immigration (that's immigrants taking up low skill jobs not that these immigrants are necessarily unskilled). It discusses the merits and failings of guest worker programs, which I imagine everyone here would oppose.
However it makes a very interesting point comparing the experience of the UK and Ireland with Sweden (citations edited for brevity):
The paper then goes on to make some interesting points about the industrial dispute at L&P employing Latvian workers as cheap labour.
Anyway, I think durrutti is absolutely right, at least as far as EU migration is concerned.
(Any spelling or typing errors in the above quotes are mine).
Numbers vs. Rights: Trade-offs and guest worker programmes
Its about how the lack of immigrant rights, in particular workplace rights, actually encourages larger scale 'low skill' immigration (that's immigrants taking up low skill jobs not that these immigrants are necessarily unskilled). It discusses the merits and failings of guest worker programs, which I imagine everyone here would oppose.
However it makes a very interesting point comparing the experience of the UK and Ireland with Sweden (citations edited for brevity):
The paper then goes on to make some interesting points about the industrial dispute at L&P employing Latvian workers as cheap labour.
Anyway, I think durrutti is absolutely right, at least as far as EU migration is concerned.
(Any spelling or typing errors in the above quotes are mine).
Knotted said:
yes mate this doc proves very well what i have been trying to get across .. i STILL find it incredible that socialists don't take this as 'read' and continue to think that it is an attack on immigrants to point this out ..
(and instead obsess on minor errors i have made in presentation .. which VP do i get an acknowledgement that i have??
)p.s. nino are you against sweatshops?
nino_savatte said:"Constant smears and lies against [me] you"? You're a fantasist.
nino .. i exaggerated .. but it was NOT of significance to the argument .. and i held my hands up ( not something you see on urban much .. and VP is absolutely correct we should all be more straight/accurate/correct in our arguments )
you however have continually portrayed me as a rightwinger/racist etc .. but whatever ..
please do NOT respond to this/me but try debating knotted and that article which backs up what is being said
nino_savatte
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durruti02 said:
You're not doing too well here, durutti. Your posts betray you as a right winger (You're no fucking Marxist, that's for sure). I don't have to do anything.
Btw, you have the cheek to accuse me of "not reading the thread" etc, but you took one of Marx's letters, selected a paragraph that suited your 'argument' (without reading and digesting the rest of the letter) and conscripted it to serve your cause. That's dishonesty.
nino_savatte said:
deal with the OP .. is it right or is it wrong
p.s. the paragraph is one widely seen and reproduced by the left .. however\they always miss out the sentance i posted up ... i actually gave the WHOLE source .. so really 100% opposite from what you continue to allege
nino_savatte
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durruti02 said:
You're being evasive again, durutti.
You misrepresented Marx, I shall take no lessons from you on the nature of discussion or debate.
nino_savatte
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durruti02 said:deal with the OP .. can you try to so that for once??
p.s. marx is the other thread ..
That's your comeback for almost everything...."deal with the OP" or "read the thread". For someone so thick, you really are quite full of yourself.
nino_savatte
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durruti02 said:well it's what we do on here isn't it!!
And you're the paragon of virtue, eh? Practice what you preach, bubba.
Scaggs
following seagulls
Claiming that open borders benefits the bosses is pretty simplistic really. You could say that the NHS benefits the bosses too by making sure there's a healthy workforce to fill their factories. I can't imagine you'd be wanting to dismantle the NHS though. Whatever benefits the individual worker (of any state) is what is important IMO. If they feel that they have to move around the globe to improve their life chances then that's ok with me. Plenty of UK workers have been doing that for years.
nino_savatte
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You don't pay attention, do you? That's probably because, like your friends, you're thick.
Scaggs said:
well yes it has long been argued that the welfare state was created not just to deal with w/c discontent but to provide fit soldiers and workers .. but that is no reason to argue against it as it does as much for us as them ..
these debates though have been based in how rebuild resistance to capital .. and how immigration affects that and specifically here about whether immigration now is different to say 20 years ago
nino_savatte
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durruti02 said:
You can't build resistance to capital by scapegoating its victims.
Jessiedog said:Sure,
But immigration benefits "us" as much as "them" too.
If you believe that "us" means "workers of the world".
Woof
Immigration has a much more positive effect the better off you are.
If you have lots of shares in multinational companies...The free movement of labour is going to sound like a good idea.....If your a landlord or a big boss you will benefit from more tenants and workers helping to keep rents up and wages down....
If your not so well and competing for jobs or housing,its not such good news...
If your a patient in a hospital in europe....Immigration might not be seen as such a bad thing as foreign doctors,nurses and cleaners keep things going.....
Bit different if your in a hospital in some of the countries in Africa or asia they come from.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
tbaldwin said:
He didn't say that, you pathetic twister.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
tbaldwin said:
It's a question mark, the use of which suggests that the words that come before it are in the form of a question. That being so, one would normally take it as read that the question had some basis in the poser of the question's beliefs/opinions.
Or are you in the habit of asking question apropos of nothing at all?
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