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Why do peoples not understand that immigration is currently based on 'pull'?

nino_savatte said:
You are generally supportive of the status quo because you accept the hackneyed anti-immigration arguments and have offered nothing truly different.

Here, you claim that neo-liberalism is to blame but fail to understand how both neo-liberalism and the legacy of slavery and colonialism have helped to shape today's world.

you really are dim mate sorry to say . supportive of the status quo??? you a wind up??? .. i want a revolution in which the bosses/ the rich /all those who treat other humans as commodities are forced out of power ... at this minute we are a million miles form this and heading into ecological disaster as well ..



i am WELL aware of slavery and imperialism and its legacy ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

that legacy today is neo liberalism and the continued contempt of the bosses of human beings, who they continue to see as mere commodities to be shipped around the world, to enable them to maximise their profits

biazarrely you and others seem to think that buying and selling workers is wrong ( rightly) but it is ok for workers to have to immigrate to get work/money .. and pay their own passage!!
 
urbanrevolt said:
So the response should be for a united working class- for trade unions to recruit the undocumeted workers, oppose checks on immigration status, workplace raids and deportations, to have militant campaigns against factory closures and sackings including occupations and mass pickets- also including operating a closed shop.

This way we can have a militant trade unionism that is actively antiracist, that fights against the BNP not just in terms of leafletting but also physical confrontation and attacking some of the root causes of racism and cuts.

yes absolutely .. agree with every word here .. but if you are not open and honest about where immigration fits in with neoliberalism people will NOT take you seriously ..
 
durruti02 said:
yes absolutely .. agree with every word here .. but if you are not open and honest about where immigration fits in with neoliberalism people will NOT take you seriously ..

printable version

Fact sheet N°301
April 2006

Migration of health workers

Who are health workers?

Health workers are all people whose main activities are aimed at enhancing health. They include the people who provide health services -- such as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, laboratory technicians -- and management and support workers such as financial officers, cooks, drivers and cleaners. Worldwide, there are 59.8 million health workers. About two-thirds of them (39.5 million) provide health services; the other one-third (19.8 million) are management and support workers. Without them, prevention and treatment of disease and advances in health care cannot reach those in need.

Why health workers migrate

Workers tend to go where the working conditions are best. Income is an important motivation for migration, but not the only one. Other reasons include better working conditions, more job satisfaction, career opportunities and the quality of management and governance. Political instability, war, and the threat of violence in the workplace also are strong drivers in many countries.

Migration is often stepwise. People sometimes move from the poorest regions to richer cities within a country and then to high-income countries. In most countries, there is also movement from the public to the private sector, particularly if there are considerable differences in income levels.

Globalization certainly has helped to drive migration abroad. At the same time, demand for health workers has increased in high-income countries because wealthy countries are not producing enough health workers locally and their existing workforce is ageing; yet there is a growing need for health care because of the ageing of populations and the rise of chronic illnesses like diabetes and heart disease. Another stimulus to migration is the growth of professional recruitment agencies.

In a number of middle-income countries with good medical education systems--such as Fiji, Jamaica, Mauritius and the Philippines--a significant proportion of students, especially in nursing school, enter their education with the intention of migrating, usually in search of a good income. Some countries, notably the Philippines, are seeking to capitalize on the demand for imported health workers by deliberately producing graduates for international export.

Impact of migration

The movement of health workers abroad has positive features. Each year, migration generates billions of dollars in remittances (the money sent back to home countries by migrants) to low-income countries and has therefore been associated with a decline in poverty. Health workers also may return, bringing significant skills and expertise back to their home countries.

Nonetheless, when significant numbers of doctors and nurses leave, the countries that financed their education lose a return on their investment and become unwilling donors to the wealthy countries to which their health personnel have migrated.

Financial loss is not the most damaging outcome, however. When a country has a fragile health system, the loss of its workforce can bring the whole system close to collapse, with the consequences measured in lives lost. In these circumstances, the calculus of international migration shifts from brain drain/gain to "fatal flows."

Health systems in a number of industrialized countries depend heavily on doctors and nurses who have been trained abroad. English-speaking countries draw the lion's share of health workers from overseas. In Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States, a quarter or more of all physicians have been imported from other countries.

On average one in four doctors and one nurse in 20 trained in Africa is working in OECD countries. Some countries have been hit harder than others. For example, 29% of Ghana’s physicians are working abroad, as are 34% of Zimbabwean nurses.

Selected reasons for migration in 4 African countries (Cameroon, South Africa, Uganda, Zimbabwe)




Thought you would be interested in this from the world health organisation durruti02. I guess that certain people will choose to ignore it though.;)
 
Intersting report, Becky. I knew a nurse teacher from Ethiopia who emigrated even though for years he had argued against people leaving: the reason was because his sister became HIV postive and only by working abroad could he send home money to buy antiretroviral medication. I once read a staggering statistic that there are more medical doctors of Ethiopian origin in Washington DC than in the whole of Ethiiopia!

Durutti: Glad we agree! What do you think of this statement by John McDonnell:
http://permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=1243
"To the Trade Union Conference Against Immigration Controls,
31st March 2007, from John McDonnell MP

Dear conference

As many of you will know, my constituency Hayes and Harlington is home to two of Britain’s immigration prisons, Colnbrook and Harmondsworth. Here people who have committed no crime are locked up before being deported, often to countries where their very lives are in danger.

Migrants are not criminals but human beings who would contribute to our society as any other citizens. I welcome and applaud this conference because it is essential that migrants and other workers join forces to support each other and fight for a society in which no one is left behind.

Divided, employers will exploit undocumented workers and use them to drive down wages and conditions for everyone else, disposing of them the moment they are no longer needed. Together we can support each other and build a mass movement that will deliver the changes we so badly need.

Trade unions will never be strong enough to win the struggles we face unless we embrace migrant workers regardless of their status. We cannot expect migrant workers to support our struggles unless we support theirs, fighting against the twin threats of detention and deportation and refusing to cooperate with the immigration system in reporting the undocumented, or cutting off services.

Ultimately our struggle is the same: for fair wages and conditions, and a decent life in which we are all treated equally and with dignity.

John McDonnell MP"
 
durruti02 said:
you really are dim mate sorry to say . supportive of the status quo??? you a wind up??? .. i want a revolution in which the bosses/ the rich /all those who treat other humans as commodities are forced out of power ... at this minute we are a million miles form this and heading into ecological disaster as well ..



i am WELL aware of slavery and imperialism and its legacy ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

that legacy today is neo liberalism and the continued contempt of the bosses of human beings, who they continue to see as mere commodities to be shipped around the world, to enable them to maximise their profits

biazarrely you and others seem to think that buying and selling workers is wrong ( rightly) but it is ok for workers to have to immigrate to get work/money .. and pay their own passage!!

You're projecting again, durutti. You're one of those who constantly whinges about immigration but hasn't, thus far, been able to put together a coherent argument. Instead, you selectivise quotes from Marx, that you think best suits your position.

But instead of going after the real enemies, you rail against immigration.

This forum is full of your immigration threads and one could argue that you have a single-minded obsession with this issue and not for the reasons that you have mentioned either.

You also continue to attribute words to me that I have never said. So desperate is your desire to win the anti-immigration argument that you must resort to misrepresentations and your fevered imagination.

This is typically evasive
that legacy today is neo liberalism and the continued contempt of the bosses of human beings, who they continue to see as mere commodities to be shipped around the world, to enable them to maximise their profits

Did it ever occur to you that the bosses need to be brought to heel? Instead you concentrate your efforts on the subject of immigration rather than work for equal rights and equal pay for ALL workers. This is why your argument is so weak, lacks vigour and is so full of holes. For you, it is immigration that is the problem, the bosses merely form a convenient cover.
 
becky p said:
printable version

Fact sheet N°301
April 2006

Migration of health workers

Who are health workers?

Health workers are all people whose main activities are aimed at enhancing health. They include the people who provide health services -- such as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, laboratory technicians -- and management and support workers such as financial officers, cooks, drivers and cleaners. Worldwide, there are 59.8 million health workers. About two-thirds of them (39.5 million) provide health services; the other one-third (19.8 million) are management and support workers. Without them, prevention and treatment of disease and advances in health care cannot reach those in need.

Why health workers migrate

Workers tend to go where the working conditions are best. Income is an important motivation for migration, but not the only one. Other reasons include better working conditions, more job satisfaction, career opportunities and the quality of management and governance. Political instability, war, and the threat of violence in the workplace also are strong drivers in many countries.

Migration is often stepwise. People sometimes move from the poorest regions to richer cities within a country and then to high-income countries. In most countries, there is also movement from the public to the private sector, particularly if there are considerable differences in income levels.

Globalization certainly has helped to drive migration abroad. At the same time, demand for health workers has increased in high-income countries because wealthy countries are not producing enough health workers locally and their existing workforce is ageing; yet there is a growing need for health care because of the ageing of populations and the rise of chronic illnesses like diabetes and heart disease. Another stimulus to migration is the growth of professional recruitment agencies.

In a number of middle-income countries with good medical education systems--such as Fiji, Jamaica, Mauritius and the Philippines--a significant proportion of students, especially in nursing school, enter their education with the intention of migrating, usually in search of a good income. Some countries, notably the Philippines, are seeking to capitalize on the demand for imported health workers by deliberately producing graduates for international export.

Impact of migration

The movement of health workers abroad has positive features. Each year, migration generates billions of dollars in remittances (the money sent back to home countries by migrants) to low-income countries and has therefore been associated with a decline in poverty. Health workers also may return, bringing significant skills and expertise back to their home countries.

Nonetheless, when significant numbers of doctors and nurses leave, the countries that financed their education lose a return on their investment and become unwilling donors to the wealthy countries to which their health personnel have migrated.

Financial loss is not the most damaging outcome, however. When a country has a fragile health system, the loss of its workforce can bring the whole system close to collapse, with the consequences measured in lives lost. In these circumstances, the calculus of international migration shifts from brain drain/gain to "fatal flows."
Health systems in a number of industrialized countries depend heavily on doctors and nurses who have been trained abroad. English-speaking countries draw the lion's share of health workers from overseas. In Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States, a quarter or more of all physicians have been imported from other countries.

On average one in four doctors and one nurse in 20 trained in Africa is working in OECD countries. Some countries have been hit harder than others. For example, 29% of Ghana’s physicians are working abroad, as are 34% of Zimbabwean nurses.

Selected reasons for migration in 4 African countries (Cameroon, South Africa, Uganda, Zimbabwe)




Thought you would be interested in this from the world health organisation durruti02. I guess that certain people will choose to ignore it though.;)

Your right certain people nino etc will try and ignore this as it seems to be backing up what ive been saying for the last 4 years on here.
Supporing economic migration has catastrophic consequences for poorer countries and this govt to its eternal shame is making matters worse and worse. Now they want to restrict migration from non eu countries to skilled workers......Sometimes i think there almost as bad as there critics on the lade fucking da liberal left.....
 
tbaldwin said:
Your right certain people nino etc will try and ignore this as it seems to be backing up what ive been saying for the last 4 years on here.
Supporing economic migration has catastrophic consequences for poorer countries and this govt to its eternal shame is making matters worse and worse. Now they want to restrict migration from non eu countries to skilled workers......Sometimes i think there almost as bad as there critics on the lade fucking da liberal left.....

No, the only thing I ignore is your ill-informed nonsense about immigration. Well, that and your silly taunts of "liberal" whenever anyone punches a hole in your 'arguments'.

As usual, you can;t resist including your favourite phrase of abuse in this post.
 
durruti02 said:
and why YET AGAIN ( shouting!!:D ) do you suggest i am in favour of restriction as has been said A MILLION TIMES ( shouting again!!) i am NOT ... i am in favour of STOPPING the bosses use immigration for the purposes of their neo lib agenda .. really mate i have said this dozens of times why is it SOOOO hard to comprehend?

How do you intend "STOPPING the bosses use immigration for the purposes of their neo lib agenda" short of a revolution?
 
becky p said:
printable version

Fact sheet N°301
April 2006

Migration of health workers

Who are health workers?

Health workers are all people whose main activities are aimed at enhancing health. They include the people who provide health services -- such as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, laboratory technicians -- and management and support workers such as financial officers, cooks, drivers and cleaners. Worldwide, there are 59.8 million health workers. About two-thirds of them (39.5 million) provide health services; the other one-third (19.8 million) are management and support workers. Without them, prevention and treatment of disease and advances in health care cannot reach those in need.

Why health workers migrate

Workers tend to go where the working conditions are best. Income is an important motivation for migration, but not the only one. Other reasons include better working conditions, more job satisfaction, career opportunities and the quality of management and governance. Political instability, war, and the threat of violence in the workplace also are strong drivers in many countries.

Migration is often stepwise. People sometimes move from the poorest regions to richer cities within a country and then to high-income countries. In most countries, there is also movement from the public to the private sector, particularly if there are considerable differences in income levels.

Globalization certainly has helped to drive migration abroad. At the same time, demand for health workers has increased in high-income countries because wealthy countries are not producing enough health workers locally and their existing workforce is ageing; yet there is a growing need for health care because of the ageing of populations and the rise of chronic illnesses like diabetes and heart disease. Another stimulus to migration is the growth of professional recruitment agencies.

In a number of middle-income countries with good medical education systems--such as Fiji, Jamaica, Mauritius and the Philippines--a significant proportion of students, especially in nursing school, enter their education with the intention of migrating, usually in search of a good income. Some countries, notably the Philippines, are seeking to capitalize on the demand for imported health workers by deliberately producing graduates for international export.

Impact of migration

The movement of health workers abroad has positive features. Each year, migration generates billions of dollars in remittances (the money sent back to home countries by migrants) to low-income countries and has therefore been associated with a decline in poverty. Health workers also may return, bringing significant skills and expertise back to their home countries.

Nonetheless, when significant numbers of doctors and nurses leave, the countries that financed their education lose a return on their investment and become unwilling donors to the wealthy countries to which their health personnel have migrated.

Financial loss is not the most damaging outcome, however. When a country has a fragile health system, the loss of its workforce can bring the whole system close to collapse, with the consequences measured in lives lost. In these circumstances, the calculus of international migration shifts from brain drain/gain to "fatal flows."

Health systems in a number of industrialized countries depend heavily on doctors and nurses who have been trained abroad. English-speaking countries draw the lion's share of health workers from overseas. In Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States, a quarter or more of all physicians have been imported from other countries.

On average one in four doctors and one nurse in 20 trained in Africa is working in OECD countries. Some countries have been hit harder than others. For example, 29% of Ghana’s physicians are working abroad, as are 34% of Zimbabwean nurses.

Selected reasons for migration in 4 African countries (Cameroon, South Africa, Uganda, Zimbabwe)




Thought you would be interested in this from the world health organisation durruti02. I guess that certain people will choose to ignore it though.;)


cheers becky .. there is some interesting stuff from third world health worker trade unions saying similar stuff .. last time this came up we were told that the remittances makes up for it all!:D
 
urbanrevolt said:
Intersting report, Becky. I knew a nurse teacher from Ethiopia who emigrated even though for years he had argued against people leaving: the reason was because his sister became HIV postive and only by working abroad could he send home money to buy antiretroviral medication. I once read a staggering statistic that there are more medical doctors of Ethiopian origin in Washington DC than in the whole of Ethiiopia!

Durutti: Glad we agree! What do you think of this statement by John McDonnell:
http://permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=1243
"To the Trade Union Conference Against Immigration Controls,
31st March 2007, from John McDonnell MP

Dear conference

As many of you will know, my constituency Hayes and Harlington is home to two of Britain’s immigration prisons, Colnbrook and Harmondsworth. Here people who have committed no crime are locked up before being deported, often to countries where their very lives are in danger.

Migrants are not criminals but human beings who would contribute to our society as any other citizens. I welcome and applaud this conference because it is essential that migrants and other workers join forces to support each other and fight for a society in which no one is left behind.

Divided, employers will exploit undocumented workers and use them to drive down wages and conditions for everyone else, disposing of them the moment they are no longer needed. Together we can support each other and build a mass movement that will deliver the changes we so badly need.

Trade unions will never be strong enough to win the struggles we face unless we embrace migrant workers regardless of their status. We cannot expect migrant workers to support our struggles unless we support theirs, fighting against the twin threats of detention and deportation and refusing to cooperate with the immigration system in reporting the undocumented, or cutting off services.

Ultimately our struggle is the same: for fair wages and conditions, and a decent life in which we are all treated equally and with dignity.

John McDonnell MP"


don't disagree at all ..

my point has always been though if the VAST majority of the w/c thinks this is your main activity .. if they think they have been abandonned ( as millions DO) .. if they think you are more interested in immigrants/refugees than them ... then it is clearly problematic
 
MC5 said:
How do you intend "STOPPING the bosses use immigration for the purposes of their neo lib agenda" short of a revolution?
oh my man .. basic TU/political organising of course .. if we don't start at the beginning we will never get to the end :D .. and issues like gate gourmet should have been made far bigger , as they did in ireland with irish ferries
 
nino_savatte said:
You're projecting again, durutti. You're one of those who constantly whinges about immigration but hasn't, thus far, been able to put together a coherent argument. Instead, you selectivise quotes from Marx, that you think best suits your position.

But instead of going after the real enemies, you rail against immigration.

This forum is full of your immigration threads and one could argue that you have a single-minded obsession with this issue and not for the reasons that you have mentioned either.

You also continue to attribute words to me that I have never said. So desperate is your desire to win the anti-immigration argument that you must resort to misrepresentations and your fevered imagination.

This is typically evasive


Did it ever occur to you that the bosses need to be brought to heel? Instead you concentrate your efforts on the subject of immigration rather than work for equal rights and equal pay for ALL workers. This is why your argument is so weak, lacks vigour and is so full of holes. For you, it is immigration that is the problem, the bosses merely form a convenient cover.

are you really as stupid as you make out nino??.. my whole issue is against the bosses!!! and had been from day 1 .. and analysing how they are using immigration .. again i have to say actually try reading wjhat i write!

the reason this debate goes on is, unlike all other issues, many ( though declining) on the left myopically have denied the material issues ..

"Did it ever occur to you that the bosses need to be brought to heel?" hey i never thought of that!! LOLALAFdying:D :D :D :rolleyes:
 
durruti02 said:
oh my man .. basic TU/political organising of course .. if we don't start at the beginning we will never get to the end :D .. and issues like gate gourmet should have been made far bigger , as they did in ireland with irish ferries

So, you're saying politically as trade unionists we should oppose immigration?
 
durruti02 said:
.. last time this came up we were told that the remittances makes up for it all!:D

Lies.

C'mon, post up any examples you can find of anyone saying anything remotely similar to "remittances makes [sic] up for it all".

I'm telling you now, you won't be able to because you're lying.
 
durruti02 said:
are you really as stupid as you make out nino??.. my whole issue is against the bosses!!! and had been from day 1 .. and analysing how they are using immigration .. again i have to say actually try reading wjhat i write!

the reason this debate goes on is, unlike all other issues, many ( though declining) on the left myopically have denied the material issues ..

"Did it ever occur to you that the bosses need to be brought to heel?" hey i never thought of that!! LOLALAFdying:D :D :D :rolleyes:

I like the way you refer to me as "stupid". People, like you, who say such things, do so because they're trying to cover up their own lack of intelligence.

You're not fooling anyone. You're a nasty wee xenophobe who doesn't like his ideas on immigration exposed for what they are.
 
nino_savatte said:
I like the way you refer to me as "stupid". People, like you, who say such things, do so because they're trying to cover up their own lack of intelligence.

That'll be a projection of a projection for the spotters.
 
nino_savatte said:
Well, at least he's giving his worn out auld cliché, "Simplistic anti-nationalism" a rest. :D

I had no idea that stung so much. For the record I was not calling you simple. I would have said the say about Einstein's simplistic anti-nationalism.
 
durruti02 said:
cheers becky .. there is some interesting stuff from third world health worker trade unions saying similar stuff .. last time this came up we were told that the remittances makes up for it all!:D


It never ceases to amaze me how much nino goes on about this subject,relying on insults and innuendo without anything to back him up.
But he probably thinks the World Health Organisation and Oxfam have been taken over by you and baldwin.:D
 
becky p said:
printable version

Fact sheet N°301
April 2006

Migration of health workers

<snip>


In a number of middle-income countries with good medical education systems--such as Fiji, Jamaica, Mauritius and the Philippines--a significant proportion of students, especially in nursing school, enter their education with the intention of migrating, usually in search of a good income. Some countries, notably the Philippines, are seeking to capitalize on the demand for imported health workers by deliberately producing graduates for international export.
I've mentioned this before and it undermines the myth that, on balance, economic migration is a bad thing.



Impact of migration

The movement of health workers abroad has positive features. Each year, migration generates billions of dollars in remittances (the money sent back to home countries by migrants) to low-income countries and has therefore been associated with a decline in poverty. Health workers also may return, bringing significant skills and expertise back to their home countries.
An there we have it.

Economic migration generates billions of US dollars, reduces poverty and contributes significant skills and expertise to the home countries.



Nonetheless, when significant numbers of doctors and nurses leave, the countries that financed their education lose a return on their investment and become unwilling donors to the wealthy countries to which their health personnel have migrated.
Errrrrrr.

Sorry?

:confused:


That was covered earlier.
--such as Fiji, Jamaica, Mauritius and the Philippines--
and "such as" means that there are also others.

How can countries deliberately educating their young people in nursing specifically as an export "product" be said to be "losing a return on their investment", or be "unwilling donors".

Bit of a contradiction there, I'm afraid. They do it because it brings in billions of US dollars, reduces poverty and contributes significant skills and expertise.

Philippine overseas workers alone will send @ US$14 billion in 2007 - think about that, US$14 billion - and that to a country where the cost of living is a fraction of that of the UK.




Financial loss is not the most damaging outcome, however. When a country has a fragile health system, the loss of its workforce can bring the whole system close to collapse, with the consequences measured in lives lost. In these circumstances, the calculus of international migration shifts from brain drain/gain to "fatal flows."
Financial loss?

Nope, not in Fiji, Jamaica, Mauritius, the Philippines and others.


Now, which countries health system has collapsed, or is close to collapse, due to economic migration?

None!

Let's look below.........



On average one in four doctors and one nurse in 20 trained in Africa is working in OECD countries.
So "Africa", as a whole, keeps 75% of the doctors it trains and retains 95% of the nurses it trains.

Causing the healhcare systems of these countries to collapse?

Hardly!



Some countries have been hit harder than others. For example, 29% of Ghana’s physicians are working abroad, as are 34% of Zimbabwean nurses.
So Ghana keeps 71% of its physicians and Zimbabwe keeps 66% of its nurses.

And is there anyone reading this thread who wouldn't do everything possible get-the-living-fuck out of Zimbabwe as fast as humanly possible, were they unfortunate enough to find themselves living there?

I know I would.



Selected reasons for migration in 4 African countries (Cameroon, South Africa, Uganda, Zimbabwe)
Well that's interesting, but it makes no sense!

I's already been posted by Violent Panda, that some 25% of South Africa's nurses are imported from poorer African countries.

:confused:




Now........

http://www.ancsdaap.org/cencon2003/Papers/Philippines/Philippines.pdf (N.B. pdf format.)



Filipino overseas workers create a growing middle class and contribute in building a more stable Philippine economy by investing their hard-earned money in industries, like transportation, housing, construction, education, and manufacturing. Their role [is] as economic saviors or, according to the government, as “modern-day heroes”


Let us not evaluate the overseas workers contribution only in terms of the incomes remitted.....The paper has modestly contributed to the understanding of the Filipino overseas workers’ characteristics so that government and private sectors support programs can be better geared to maximize and optimize the overseas workers’ contribution to our nation’s growth.

:)

Woof
 
becky p said:
It never ceases to amaze me how much nino goes on about this subject,relying on insults and innuendo without anything to back him up.
But he probably thinks the World Health Organisation and Oxfam have been taken over by you and baldwin.:D

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me, together with your inability to read and comprehend posts.

But this post sums up the tone of your posts and underlines your desperation to score cheap points rather than deal with the points that I have raised: namely that immigration controls are racist/xenophobic.

durutti has started over 16 threads on the subject of immigration in the last year or so. Perhaps you don't see that as obsessive but even a novice psychologist would recognise it as symptomatic of an obsessive disorder.
 
nino_savatte said:
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me, together with your inability to read and comprehend posts.

But this post sums up the tone of your posts and underlines your desperation to score cheap points rather than deal with the points that I have raised: namely that immigration controls are racist/xenophobic.

durutti has started over 16 threads on the subject of immigration in the last year or so. Perhaps you don't see that as obsessive but even a novice psychologist would recognise it as symptomatic of an obsessive disorder.


:p
And talking of obsessive disorders,how much time do you spend on urban75?
How many times have you made unsubstantiated accusations of racism?
 
becky p said:
:p
And talking of obsessive disorders,how much time do you spend on urban75?
How many times have you made unsubstantiated accusations of racism?

My, you're quite a fantasist, aren't you? "Unsubstantiated"? There's nothing "unsubstantiated" about it. The immigration controls, that we currently have, are racist, simple as that.

I expect your next reply to be just as irrelevant and as anile as this one. :D
 
Why UK doctors need to work abroad

The lack of training in the modern NHS has made working abroad an absolute necessity for UK doctors...

Half of graduate doctors leave to work abroad from Malta.

A new application system threatens the future of junior doctors in the UK and jobs are disappearing throughout the medical professions.

This diabolical application system will either push people out of the country, or worse still, out of medicine altogether.

http://society.guardian.co.uk/health/Story/0,,2056823,00.html

Media criticism of doctors: review of UK junior doctors' concerns raised in surveys.

A fucking mess all round.
 
And if we're talking about "taking care of our own, first", then I guess that would start with family, community, etc.

And the best way to start?

Well. Emigrate.

Horses mouth stuff.


http://www.gov.ph/FORUM/thread.asp?rootID=69140&catID=2


I think the govt prefers people to send dollars than give service. i really dont know if the politicians care that much about the well-being of filipinos because i dont see that they do. i dont think the govt is alarmed because of this nursing migration thing. i think theyre even glad that more people will be sending foreign money back here (and of course theyll have more benefits from that than the relatives to whom the money is for)

i am a new graduate nurse and i absolutely am planning to go and work abroad as soon as possible. i am not against serving my fellowmen but 5-10 years would be a total drag. nurses working here are los%rs in terms of the compensation given by the govt and their respective employers. id love to work and live here because this is my homeland and this is the place where i feel culturally secure but considering the current condition of our country, it's so hard to even imagine myself working here in the next 5 years. it's even becoming a joke among many nursing students if you say youre planning to work as a local nurse forever.

it would be really great if we all work together to solve this problem and not just leave it for others to figure out, but hey, it's the 21st century. let's get real. our politicians are hopeless and are pathetic facilitators of progress(or do they even facilitate?) maybe this problem will be solved in the coming generations, but as for my short lifespan, i would want to use it to help myself and my family.

....Well, tackling corruption in Philippine politics would be a start.

Many/most families sending a nurse abroad have scraped to pay for the requisite education specifically for the overseas opportunity it provides.


And the number of doctors retraining as nurses is increasing.



I have been an Physician for about 6 years now, my wife is a public school teacher and we got 3 kids, 2 are in school now. I have decided to enroll in a special nursing class for doctors in one of Mindanao's cities because I really feel that I am becoming poorer and poorer, we can just afford apartment rental but not our own home, private schools' tuition fees are very high yet I opted to enroll my kids there because gov't schools have poor standards and very crowded and I can't compromise my kid's potentials; our country is plunging and desperate, poverty soaring though figures say otherwise, politicians panicking and squeezing each other. Hew! I know that being an NGO doctor in some mountainous regions in Mindanao for 2 years where only a very few doctors would come and serve the indigenous people, is not enough service to my countrymen, however, I had thought that it would be high time to seek for greener pasture and give my children the best option. Now, I have passed all the nurses' exams and waiting for petition approval for the USA, all for FREE!


It is immoral to stop the free flow of people in the 21st century.


From the Philippines....

Overseas the monthly pay ranges from 3,000 to 4,000 U.S. dollars a month, compared to the 169 dollar average pay in most cities. In rural areas, nurses receive from 75 to 95 dollars a month. Doctors in the Philippines earn an average income of 300 to 800 dollars a month, a pittance compared to the salary of a nurse in the United States or Europe.


Workers need to unite globally in an increasingly globalised world.

Migration strengthens the bonds of workers globally.

It is not unrealistic in today's integrated world to argue for global socialism.



Due to global demand, the average wages of nurses globally is rising. This is good for all nurses.



Oh! And in about a quarter of a century, there will be about a quarter of a billion Chinese peeps with a university education - and a relatively good one at that.


Wake up!


And, as a left-leaning internationalist, if this viewpoint seems, temporarily, to align or associate me with the "liberal, capitalistic-loving scum" so derided here, then so be it.

The alternative perspective would align me more closely with the BNP.

And in an imperfect world, I choose the lesser of two evils.

:(

Woof
 
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