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Could the conspiraloons sink any lower?

pembrokestephen said:
You are insensitive because you are speculating wildly about all kinds of conspiracies which led to the deaths of 33 people before many of them will even have been put in the ground. If you can't see why that's insensitive, then you're a bigger idiot than I took you for.
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Without wanting to be too picky, it's not exactly wild speculation is it?

It's more of a knee-jerk assumption that the thing that they attribute practically everything to is responsible here. Some wild speculation might be better actually.:rolleyes:

The upside to this I suppose is that you couldn't ask for a much better example of how these people work.
 
Meltingpot said:
Trust me, I don't take all this abuse for a laugh.
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Why then?

Do you think you are doing us a favour and 'opening our minds'? Is this some kind of search for truth?
 
pembrokestephen said:
I was thinking more of the way the scam operates rather than the detailed intricacies of the "tech".

Don't tell me you've been involved in all that stuff, too?
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Oh yes, though I haven't heard from them for ages. I've got a few of my stepdad's LRH books on the Tech, and I've had auditing (mostly in the Scn freezone which you probably haven't heard of).

It does work to some extent, though I think there are probably better ways now.
 
longdog said:
I might say the moon might be made of cheese. If I did I would expect the world and his wife to rip the piss out of me.
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Well no, that's very unlikely. How would you produce that much cheese and get it into space long before space travel had been invented?

See, I can think conventionally.
 
Meltingpot said:
Oh yes, though I haven't heard from them for ages. I've got a few of my stepdad's LRH books on the Tech, and I've had auditing (mostly in the Scn freezone which you probably haven't heard of).
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Figures. Lots of people say that those who get into the whole auditing/Scientology thing are stupid, but I've always inclined to the view that they're more credulous than stupid.

You are starting to look like an excellent case in point.

Meltingpot said:
It does work to some extent, though I think there are probably better ways now.
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For some value of "work". I'll not derail this thread with a discussion on the merits of auditing, save to say that the mechanisms by which it is claimed to work aren't all that dissimilar from the mechanisms that enable you to make the kind of claims about the reason behind the Virginia shootings that you're making on this very thread.
 
editor said:
I'm just waiting for the clear and obvious connection to 9/11 to emerge.
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The dead aren't actually students. They are the 'missing pasengers' who are all being kept in university lockers and dorms. What happened here is that some of them wanted to break out and confirm all the 9/11 truthers beliefs, so the CIA had a shrink set this Korean dude up as a sleeper agent to make sure they didn't break out; they tried, some implanted switch in his head went POP! and he gunned them all down...as a warning to all the other missing passengers!!

OR...someone who shouldn't have been within 50 meters of a gun lost the plot, got a gun and shot loads of his classmates.

Hmmmmm....
 
tarannau said:
Stop being such a pillock. If you were being sensitive, you may realise that the relatives of those shot may not want a bunch of internet fuckwads indulging in a fevered spate of baseless speculation in an conspiracy-fans internet circle-jerk.

What the hell is a CIA psychologist anyway? Do they arrive at their practices in disguise then? trench coat and novelty jacket?
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Well to be fair, meltingpot didn't start the thread.
 
pembrokestephen said:
Figures. Lots of people say that those who get into the whole auditing/ Scientology thing are stupid, but I've always inclined to the view that they're more credulous than stupid.
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Well, my view is that the tech works well enough that most of those who stick with it have at least one major gain. In my case, I was all but cured of gastritis very early on (and in the Church), not bad for the £60 they got out of me all told.

The trouble is that when it doesn't work, and it doesn't always, they blame anyone but Scientology.

pembrokestephen said:
You are starting to look like an excellent case in point.
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Maybe, I don't feel like arguing. I've frankly exhausted my reserves of self-defensiveness.

pembrokestephen said:
For some value of "work". I'll not derail this thread with a discussion on the merits of auditing, save to say that the mechanisms by which it is claimed to work aren't all that dissimilar from the mechanisms that enable you to make the kind of claims about the reason behind the Virginia shootings that you're making on this very thread.
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I dont see how though. Have you had auditing yourself, in order to know what a blowdown / cognition / floating needle mean subjectively? If you had, you'd know why so many people pay good money for it.
 
Meltingpot said:
Well, my view is that the tech works well enough that most of those who stick with it have at least one major gain. In my case, I was all but cured of gastritis very early on (and in the Church), not bad for the £60 they got out of me all told.
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Go and look up "placebo effect".

Meltingpot said:
I dont see how though. Have you had auditing yourself, in order to know what a blowdown / cognition / floating needle mean subjectively? If you had, you'd know why so many people pay good money for it.
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Listen, sunshine, I don't have to eat dogshit to know it's nasty, OK?
 
pembrokestephen said:
Go and look up "placebo effect".
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I know what a placebo is, and all I can say is I was extremely surprised when this happened. I was doing a course about dealing with people in my life who were giving me trouble, not physical ailments. So I don't see how it could have been a placebo.

pembrokestephen said:
Listen, sunshine, I don't have to eat dogshit to know it's nasty, OK?
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Boy, that open mind of yours again. You remind me of the councillor in Devon who wouldn't let cinemas in that county show "The Life of Brian" because he didn't need to visit a lavatory to know that it stunk.

The Church of Scientology is not the Tech, they're two different things. Most of the people who developed the Tech were expelled by the Church anyway, mostly in the early 1980s.
 
No, but I do think he produced some good data in the early days (the early 50's, though he went into decline later IMO). For example, he discovered that emotions can be placed on a rising scale, independently (and possibly before) Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's work on people's emotional reactions to being told of a terminal cancer diagnosis; she discovered a near identical scale of emotions except that instead of "apathy" in the Scn. version, she had "acceptance".
 
Meltingpot said:
I know what a placebo is, and all I can say is I was extremely surprised when this happened. I was doing a course connected with people in my life who were giving me trouble, not physical ailments. So I don't see how it could have been a placebo.



Boy, that open mind of yours again. You remind me of the councillor
in Devon who wouldn't let cinemas in that county show "The Life of Brian" because he didn't need to visit a lavatory to know that it stunk.

The Church of Scientology is not the Tech, they're two different things. Most of the people who developed the Tech were expelled by the Church anyway, mostly in the early 1980s.
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Yes, dear, you've made your point. Now, let's not derail this thread any further: didn't you have some more wild and unsubstantiated claims to pull out of your fundament?
 
kyser_soze said:
So Meltinpot, are you a bona fide Hubbarbdista?
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I think he's already answered that: he's in the Freezone, which is a kind of not-for-profit version of Scientology. Kinda "open source clamminess", if you will...all the lunacy without the hard sell and financial scams. Much hated by the official clams.
 
pembrokestephen said:
I think he's already answered that: he's in the Freezone, which is a kind of not-for-profit version of Scientology. Kinda "open source clamminess", if you will...all the lunacy without the hard sell and financial scams. Much hated by the official clams.
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At the moment I have no contact with the Freezone either except from visiting Freezone Tech websites. I don't consider it lunacy btw.
 
pembrokestephen said:
Yes, dear, you've made your point. Now, let's not derail this thread any further: didn't you have some more wild and unsubstantiated claims to pull out of your fundament?
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No, I think I've taken enough of a hammering for one day.
 
pembrokestephen said:
I think he's already answered that: he's in the Freezone, which is a kind of not-for-profit version of Scientology. Kinda "open source clamminess", if you will...all the lunacy without the hard sell and financial scams. Much hated by the official clams.
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Not for profit religion? Where's the point of that then.

It's about the only thing I've ever respected the Hubbardistas for TBH - they're as open about money buying transcendence as the RCs were with the ole Indulgences, which is more honest than many churches...
 
kyser_soze said:
Not for profit religion? Where's the point of that then.

It's about the only thing I've ever respected the Hubbardistas for TBH - they're as open about money buying transcendence as the RCs were with the ole Indulgences, which is more honest than many churches...
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IMO, Scientology isn't a religion because there's no place in it for grace or any kind of divine intercession. I think it's best described as an applied religious philosophy.
 
That's true...was trying to remember why it wasn't a 'real' religion...as an atheist the lack of divine intercession really doesn't bother me that much...buncha people following what someone else has written and giving their money and time away...
 
Fair enough, but that could also be said about psychoanalysis based upon the works of, say, Freud or Jung, which can also get expensive (though less so than Scientology, which can total into the hundreds of thousands).
 
Meltingpot said:
IMO, Scientology isn't a religion because there's no place in it for grace or any kind of divine intercession. I think it's best described as an applied religious philosophy.
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with aliens. don't forget the aliens.
 
TBH with you I find the inclusion of aliens makes it all the more appealing, but then I was warped at a young age by reading a comic book version of Erik Von Danikens guff about chariots from the heavens - the specific one I had was about the Nazca lines in Peru and I always wanted to read the one about Atlantis and the Pyramids...and there was some sex in it, I'm pretty sure of that.
 
Ayle. Fuckwitology is free for the world.

B. Meltingpot so, to be clear your suspicion, that this could possibily be a Black Ops, and your only reason for thinking this is that the psycho could have been infulenced by his Covert CIA psychologist.

You don't tell us the purpose of this mission, what it hopes to achieve.

You offer no evidence that he was seeing a psychologist, or even a Covert CIA one. In fact you offer no evidence that the CIA has "covert psychologists".

Look back in the day, say what you like about JFK conspiracy theorists they had a theory. Smoke on the grassy knol, Oswald was a Russian agent, Hunt was the real killer.

Thats a theory.

The above Melting point is just fucking retarded. You've nothing approaching a shred of evidence you just like picking over the carcass of a tragedy, to twist events to suit your paranoid worldview.
 
8den said:
Meltingpot so, to be clear your suspicion, that this could possibily be a Black Ops, and your only reason for thinking this is that the psycho could have been influenced by his Covert CIA psychologist.

You don't tell us the purpose of this mission, what it hopes to achieve.
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That's easy, to frighten us into accepting more and more authoritarian controls over our behaviour, and more intrusive surveillance.

8den said:
You offer no evidence that he was seeing a psychologist, or even a Covert CIA one. In fact you offer no evidence that the CIA has "covert psychologists".
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Do a Google for Louis Jolyon West (in connection with Timothy McVeigh too while you're at it), and then Ewen Cameron. That's two to start with, I don't know of any current ones.

8den said:
Look back in the day, say what you like about JFK conspiracy theorists they had a theory. Smoke on the grassy knol, Oswald was a Russian agent, Hunt was the real killer.

Thats a theory.
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Yeah, and for the record I think Oswald may well have been the killer (see "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner), the question is why?

From what I've heard, it was because (in common with Lincoln, who was also assassinated), Kennedy wanted the government to issue interest free loans and thus break the monopoly of the US private bankers. Hunt or someone else may have paid Oswald to stop Kennedy doing this.

8den said:
The above Melting point is just fucking retarded. You've nothing approaching a shred of evidence you just like picking over the carcass of a tragedy, to twist events to suit your paranoid worldview.
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I don't at all. If you think we're heading towards a global fascist state with microchipped population, all-persuasive surveillance and all effective rights extinguished, then you have to do what you can to stop it, and it looks that way to me.

Have a look at Nick Sandberg's "Blueprint for a Prison Planet" if you've got the time;

http://www.nick2211.yage.net/chips.htm

I'm the world's biggest romantic, but I also believe that we live in terrible times at present.

There's an alternative theory I've heard about Hungerford et al., that this spate of killings is a response to electromagnetic pollution; but the only person I've seen say that believed we're nearly all going to perish in a worldwide holocaust before a more enlightened civilisation can take our place. That one mightn't go down well here either.
 
kyser_soze said:
TBH with you I find the inclusion of aliens makes it all the more appealing, but then I was warped at a young age by reading a comic book version of Erik Von Danikens guff about chariots from the heavens - the specific one I had was about the Nazca lines in Peru and I always wanted to read the one about Atlantis and the Pyramids...and there was some sex in it, I'm pretty sure of that.
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Who was it who wrote "We are not the first" about various forms of technology that predate our supposed discoveries of them (the Chinese supposedly had batteries 2,000 years ago, for example)? That was one of the first "alternative" books I read, along with Edgar Cayce's book about Atlantis.
 
Meltingpot said:
That's easy, to frighten us into accepting more and more authoritarian controls over our behaviour, and more intrusive surveillance.
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Any evidence that this occured after any other school shooting?


Do a Google for Louis Jolyon West (in connection with Timothy McVeigh too while you're at it),
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Wow an anti scientologist psychologist. Look you delusional fuck, you're making the claim, don't wave me in the direction of goggle, provide a link to a credible source.

and then Ewen Cameron. That's two to start with, I don't know of any current ones.
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Ditto.

Yeah, and for the record I think Oswald may well have been the killer (see "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner), the question is why?

From what I've heard, it was because (in common with Lincoln, who was also assassinated), Kennedy wanted the government to issue interest free loans and thus break the monopoly of the US private bankers. Hunt or someone else may have paid Oswald to stop Kennedy doing this.
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Oswald was paid! Paid!. Moron.

How do you think that conversation went?

"So who will we get to kill the president, the Special Forces guy"

"Nah this is too important, lets go with the kid, y'know what's hisname, the one who made the two suicide attempts, the mediocre shot, who was stripped of carrying a firearm and given menial duties at the end of service as a marine. And lets let him use the shitty rifle with the dodgy scope, y'know he a pop at Hebert Walker the other week, and fucked up, lets give the another chance"

If Oswald is your ideal of a assasins perfect choice you have been huffing pain.

I don't at all. If you think we're heading towards a global fascist state with microchipped population, all-persuasive surveillance and all effective rights extinguished, then you have to do what you can to stop it, and it looks that way to me.
Click to expand...

No evidence for that do you?
Have a look at Nick Sandberg's "Blueprint for a Prison Planet" if you've got the time;

http://www.nick2211.yage.net/chips.htm

I'm the world's biggest romantic, but I also believe that we live in terrible times at present.


There's an alternative theory I've heard about Hungerford et al., that this spate of killings is a response to electromagnetic pollution; but the only person I've seen say that believed we're nearly all going to perish in a worldwide holocaust before a more enlightened civilisation can take our place. That one mightn't go down well here either.
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You're just diggin that hole deeper and deeper here meltingpot.
 
kyser_soze said:
Not for profit religion? Where's the point of that then.

It's about the only thing I've ever respected the Hubbardistas for TBH - they're as open about money buying transcendence as the RCs were with the ole Indulgences, which is more honest than many churches...
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Hmmm, not THAT open. They're remarkably coy about the costs: Hubbard called it the "gradient" - "don't tell anyone about the next bit up" (or how much it's going to cost you).

They maintained a fiction that you could do it for free by joining their paramilitary wing - the "Sea Org" - but it does appear to have been a fiction. And you had to contract to them for several (no, really!) lifetimes...
 
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