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Iran eyes badges for Jews and Christians

First, Fridge asked for a hyperlink to a bonafide English translation of the speech everyone is talking about. I mentioned in yesterda's post about one offered by the Iranian Student's News Agency who were among the groups to whom Ahmadinejad was originally speaking. ISNA offers translations in several languages, including [interestingly] Hebrew.

I had posted that I would bring the url with me when I left my home this morning but of course I forgot. Not wanting to listen to the incessant chatter of this and that, I instead did a cursory search using the ISNA as my central keyword.

While the one I had wanted to offer was directly drom the ISNA, I was able to find an English translation from the original ISNA Farsi text. the translation into english was done by New Times Tehran Bureau correspondent Nazila Fahti. This english tranlation appeared in the Sunday NY Times, Week In Review section, the week of the event.

For those of you who are unaware, the NY Times operates a subsription site. As such, I will also offer a url to a site that reproduced the Fahti translation verbatim.

www.nytimes.com/2005/10/30/weekinreview/30iran.html

themiddleeast.com/ref/jadspeech[/url]

By the way, the relevant line, is translated as : "...we eliminate this disgusting stain from the Islamic World."

[Edited to fix the second url and to include the relevant quote]
 
Dwyer: How many confrontational stories have appeared in the mainstream Western press over the last year? Does everyone count as a perperation for war? r could it just be a combination of tabloid journalism and prgrammed leaks seeking to shape US [and by relation pretty much all Western ] policy?
One should never "ignore" the press. They should pay careful attention and then dig on their own and thus form their own , better informed opinions.

Panda, Nino, and Moono [Did I say 3 Stooges?]: How about "More sum, less filler?" [Damn I gotta get that cd].

Gunther: Check the preceeding post please, that should offer you an answer.


Jonti: I think I will take not only the Iranian group to whom the speech was offered but the Farsi speaking Times correspondent out of Tehran [plus a good dozen Bukhari Jews who DO speak it as well].

It should also be mentioned that the same day the Times published the translation, Hassan Hanizadeh of the Tehran Times offered that Ahmadinejad DID utter the words BUT that they nothing compared the Zionist crimes.

Additionaly, One day prior [to Hanizadeh], the Iranian ambassador to Moscow stated that Ahamdinejad was speaking from his own personal point of view, thus distancing the regime from the remarks and at the same time admitting them. that same day, in Tehran, Ahmadinejad himself marched in a few "Death To Israel Parades [actual name by the way." Amid the banners saying that and much mre, he STOOD BEHIND HIS WORDS!
 
Well, yes, but that's the original translation that's being challenged here.

Even MEMRI don't use that particular phrase, which carries specific connotations of immediate military action in English:
The term 'map' to which the media refer at length does not even appear. Whereas the 'New York Times' said: "Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map" the version by MEMRI is: "Imam [Khomeini] said: This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

I hardly think MEMRI could be accused of being some sort of pro-Iranian source. In fact, whatever you might think of Cole, he's hardly pro-Ahmadinejad either; he spends a lot of time criticising him and calling him part of the problem, a reactionary conservative trying to shore up an increasingly unpopular regime.
 
Food for thought. However, it still comes down to context. the next day marching in a few "Death to Israel " parades defending the comment. Other prominent Iranian figures reiterating, and in some cases criticising it, and so on.
 
I don't think that there's much of a question as to whether certain middle-eastern regimes are trying to use and promote anti-Israeli sentiment to detract from their own internal failings. It does behoove us however to be very careful in judging what that actually means in practice, and to what degree reports here are being manipulated to fit into a "politically correct" view of Iran, one that can be used to justify military action.
 
rachamim18 said:
Panda, Nino, and Moono [Did I say 3 Stooges?]:
Much better to be a stooge than a laughing stock like you, Rachamim.
How about "More sum, less filler?" [Damn I gotta get that cd].
What CD?
There is no CD called "All Sum, Less Filler".

There is an awful "teenie-punk" piece of manufactured shit gloriously mis-named "All Killer, No Filler" by the execrable Sum 41. Is that the CD you mean?

The moral of the story is to make sure you get your pop culture references correct before using them. That way you might look a little bit less stupid.
 
No precious
Panda, I am talking about a mix cd of Trance by Jonny Bugz, a local Israeli dj but thanks none the less...your usual rollicking wit.


[Edited fro spelling]
 
rachamim18 said:
No precious
Panda, I am talking about a mix cd of Trance by Jonny Bugz, a local Israeli dj but thanks none the less...your usual rollicking wit.


[Edited fro spelling]

rachamim18: OFF TOPIC
 
rachamim18 said:
No precious
Panda, I am talking about a mix cd of Trance by Jonny Bugz, a local Israeli dj but thanks none the less...your usual rollicking wit.


[Edited fro spelling]

Yeah, of course you are Rach. of course you are.

Thing is, you made the same ridiculous mistake (yep, absolutely identical) last year, and when your attention was drawn to it back then you admitted you'd got it wrong.

Now all of a sudden you're not wrong, and you're talking about an obscure private issue mix CD. How very "convenient" for you.
 
Christian Man said:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=11fbf4a8-282a-4d18-954f-546709b1240f&k=32073

Human rights groups are raising alarms over a new law passed by the Iranian parliament that would require the country's Jews and Christians to wear coloured badges to identify them and other religious minorities as non-Muslims.

"This is reminiscent of the Holocaust," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, the dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. "Iran is moving closer and closer to the ideology of the Nazis."

Iranian expatriates living in Canada yesterday confirmed reports that the Iranian parliament, called the Islamic Majlis, passed a law this week setting a dress code for all Iranians, requiring them to wear almost identical "standard Islamic garments."
They took the story off ("story no longer available")

And replaced it with this...

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=6626a0fa-99de-4f1e-aebe-bb91af82abb3&rfp=dta
 
And they've put the headline (Iranian embassy denies dress code) on their website's front page. Gotta respect that.

Sam Kermanian, of the U.S.-based Iranian-American Jewish Federation, said in an interview from Los Angeles that he had contacted members of the Jewish community in Iran -- including the lone Jewish member of the Iranian parliament.

They denied any such measure was in place.
 
Why?

Many newspapers just ignore it when doubt emerge over one of their stories, or just write a small retraction on page 35.

At least these guys printed a fairly convincing rebuttal of the allegations.
 
If all this is about, is that Iran's state is making provision to assist Islamic fashion houses to emerge from a culture where women largely make their own clothing, and that all this means is that delightful long cullottes made from fabric with excellent drape and layering potential, and this combinedwith any type of elaboration on a hip-covering tunic (which must also conceals the cleavage from view - also a delightful and very unthreatening way of dressing from all perspectives). Outer wear as any variation on full length cloaks/coats with hoods, no ankles showing (hence the trousers-cullottes thingies).

I think it'll eventually be very popular in the West, and a really good idea to preserve and build upon an very appropriate dress style for that region and cultural inheritance.

I'd buy it.
 
What are you 'lol'ling about? What you just said was offensive, and I fail to see the humour.

The only thing that's 'funny', is that you didn't 'look' antisemitic, but hey, now you do. Funny that, isn't it? Not.

Keep feeding the zionists/messianists more of this sh!t, moono. They're lapping it up as though it were candy :rolleyes:
 
You've completely overshot, tl. The idea of publicising 'the star' was to help destroy any negative connotations. If everybody wore a 'yellow star' then fascists wouldn't be able to use it in a derogitory sense, would they. That was the gist.

Edit; Your call.
 
Well ?

Your mistake is serious and it's unfair that you leave it floating about.

Edit; Don't anybody cross the thread, please, before tl responds.
 
moono said:
Well ?

Your mistake is serious and it's unfair that you leave it floating about.

Edit; Don't anybody cross the thread, please, before tl responds.

Well what?
You're saying I 'completely overshot', are you? You think you're capable of 'destroying any negative connotations' regarding the Yellow Star by joking about putting one on your guitar? Because it rhymes? It's not funny. In my opinion, you're the one who's 'completely overshot' here.
 
tangentlama said:
Well what?
You're saying I 'completely overshot', are you? You think you're capable of 'destroying any negative connotations' regarding the Yellow Star by joking about putting one on your guitar? Because it rhymes? It's not funny. In my opinion, you're the one who's 'completely overshot' here.
To be frank, right now you look like a rabid frothing at the mouth idiot.

Overreact? Yes you did.
 
tangentlama;
Well what?
You're saying I 'completely overshot', are you? You think you're capable of 'destroying any negative connotations' regarding the Yellow Star by joking about putting one on your guitar? Because it rhymes? It's not funny. In my opinion, you're the one who's 'completely overshot' here.

Out of respect for your previous contributions I've deleted it, harmless though it was.
That respect has now dissipated. You are just as susceptible to perceived provocation as the other jewish people here with a chip on their shoulders.
Being Jewish is NOT a ticket to insult everybody else with impunity and then scurry away behind your 'anti-semitic' slur. YOU ought to be ashamed over this , not me.
I say again, if EVERYBODY wore a 'yellow star' then it would be a statement that fascists couldn't circumvent. However, YOU appear to want exclusive rights to it. Up yours. You invent persecution when there is none. Bon voyage.
 
You're really 'on one', aren't you. Forcing shame and culpability for what? You made a 'joke in poor taste', and yet, at the same time holding to the other end of that lifeline which the 'zionists' are holding on to, since you're fuelling their cause with your blinkered view of world Jewry (what used to be Israel) and it's relation to Israel-the-Nation.

Your 'if everyone wore a yellow star' can only be written in this past tense: 'had worn'. This is something upon which a Legend has already sprung, from the days when Denmark's King Christian led his citizens in in a silent resistence, but the reality was that it was not a yellow star which Danes wore, but their own flag.
In the early 1980s, the International Herald Tribune ran a full-page advertisement for war-era commemorative photo featuring Christian X on horseback with a Jewish Star of David on his sleeve. The image echoed a popular tale which claimed that the king wore the symbol as sign of support for and solidarity with Danish Jews suffering from Nazi persecution during the occupation. (The story had become well-known partially through its retelling in Leon Uris's 1958 novel about the founding of Israel, Exodus.) This attribution of support is apocryphal, however, as Jews in Denmark were never forced to wear the Star of David

As for being 'susceptible to perceived provocation' - my remarks on your provocative statements, were regarding how zionists would perceive you. That You feed them deliberately no doubt, but the only 'thing' you've provoked in me, in this thread, is the response that i can see clearly that you're deliberately provoking Zionists, and that although you didn't look antisemitic to me, it's incredibly clear how you could be perceived that way by others, regardless of their whether they're Jewish or not.
The more you write, the more you reveal, and now it appears from your most recent statement, that you're also stooping to the 'Yoo Jooz are all' accusation. Again, that's another way to ensure that even moderate non-Zionist Jews will become suspicious, or avoid discussions in threads where you're going off on your anti-YooJoo rant.

As for Your mixing of the words 'fascist zionist jew' etc all together in the same sentence - more deliberate provocation, else you're just a very sloppy writer, and have no idea about what effect you're writing is having upon those reading it.

So you're either ineffectual at putting your point across, or indulging in a bit of Jew baiting, since if we count the number of insults in your posts, and then count the number in mine, there's little comparison. You insist I should feel shame! You insist I want exclusive rights to the Yellow Badge worn by Jews in during the Nazi Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide of WWII! You say I invent persecution where there is none? You say I have a chip on my shoulder like other Urbanite Jews of which for you there are two types - those with chips on their shoulders, and those without.

This is a great insight into your mind. You really are digging yourself in deeper here, moono. I do hope you don't misunderstand the original point again. "That's funny, you don't look antisemitic to me" is a book by Steve Cohen which I can recommend, even though I don't align his ultra-left-wing viewpoint on other things. Other than that, your respect for my past posts is not necessary. Any online persona is the sum of their words. Try running some of those posts ^^ you made earlier in this thread through a translator - into...french and german, and then see what you're saying to the world!

We're also talking about what is really happening, and what is really happening is that Iran's Govt. is going to indulge in the perogative of any Govt., and subsidise an emerging enterprise until it can become self-supporting, by creating Islamic fashion houses, since women mainly make their own clothes or have other women tailors make them for them, and normally buy fabric only from a shop or a street-to-street fabric merchant. I believe there's an import-stoppage on westernised clothes into Iran, and want to encourage that same business/fashion house approach to Islamic/Eastern clothes fashions as any other culture.

MY favourite Persian fashions are in those beautiful miniatures of sumptuous medieval silks and only very discreet veils over the lower face. (better/worse than lipstick? - what psychological effect were those devised for upon one's lover, etc?) hehe.

By all means sit in the corner playing your guitar with the yellow star in some kind of warped solidarity, but my guess is that Jewish women in Iran will continue on dressing as they already do.

A Jewish Member of the Iranian Parliament has also spoken of how there is no truth in the NP/JP rumours from these Iranian exiles who are spreading these rumours. This seems like a repeat of some earlier rumours spread by Iranian exiles in previous years. I'll see what I can find out about them, and their allegiences.
 
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