The UK banking system
- Thread starter zArk
- Start date
I can't believe I'm reading this jibe. I've provided many articles and quotes in my posts and links explaining how the banks have been swindling us and continue to do so. You have gone from confidently thinking you know everything about it to dismissing the actual method by which banks create credit as impossible and illegal to refusing to admit that you were wrong.slaar said:
I could supply more arguments and links for you, but what would be the point? I can't see that you would actually bother to pay any attention to them.
A Dashing Blade
Takes horses to water but can't make donkeys drink
zArk said:
Doh!
Define genetically modified
Do you distinguish between what companies like Monsato (sp?) do and what gardeners/farmers have been doing for a couple of thousand years.
I note you didn't ask "is some gm food . . " or "is any gm food . . . " and therefore I'm interpreting your question to be the grammatic and logical equivilant of "is any gm food allowed in the uk".
I would suggest that both Monsanto and gardeners/farmers are genetic modifiers and so, in my reference frame, the answer to your question "is gm food banned in the UK?" is no.
Again. Relevence?
I'm still waiting for you to produce some contempory and verifiable sources to back up your "Iranian Oil trading in Eur" assertion btw . . . .
(Btw part2, wanna put your money where your mouth is about an imminant USD collapse on March 23rd? I'll give good odds. All proceeds to the server fund?)
well it is clear that you dont know, didnt read, didnt see on the news or hear from anyone that;
Food derived from GM Round-Up Ready maize line GA21 is now legal for sale in the UK and will be placed in all areas of the food market.
relavance?
Just because you havent heard about it doesnt mean it isnt fact.
Food derived from GM Round-Up Ready maize line GA21 is now legal for sale in the UK and will be placed in all areas of the food market.
relavance?
Just because you havent heard about it doesnt mean it isnt fact.
A Dashing Blade
Takes horses to water but can't make donkeys drink
zArk said:
Ok, you do realise of course that this information about an imminant USD collapse that only you and the pixies belive in could make you an extremely wealthy person? (Wiki "derivative contract" for a few ideas)
With this wealth, you could become one of the lizard men (whatever) who really rule this planet (own the BoE etc) and actually start to change things.
A Dashing Blade
Takes horses to water but can't make donkeys drink
zArk said:
Er, so the correct answer to your question "is gm food banned in the UK?" is no.
And my answer was ". . . the answer to your question "is gm food banned in the UK?" is no."
How exactly am I wrong?
You asked a question that required a boolean answer.
I answered it correctly.
What's your problem?
(on second thoughts, don't answer that last bit . . .)
None of your links explain anything. They brush over the areas that actually matter, insinuating that what banks do is somehow underhand when any GCSE Economics textbook tells you what they do. I have not dismissed it as impossible and illegal, it is quite possible and quite legal, but bears no resemblence to the processes you extrapolate and suppose.Jazzz said:
Furthermore, even if banks did operate like that, it wouldn't have the effects you state confidently with no evidence, and the abolishment of debt-based money would not lead to a global economic boom and prosperity for all. Finance collapses, investment collapses, economic growth collapses. Financial collapses have happened many times before, the results weren't good.
Deferred Division — Marketing of Foods Derived from Genetically Modified Maize — 19 Oct 2005 at 19:29 — Commons Division No. 61
The Ayes won by 215 to 75 (majority 140) with 0 tellers, making a turnout of 290.
That this House takes note of the unnumbered Explanatory Memorandum dated 15th July 2005, submitted by the Food Standards Agency, relating to the Draft Council Decision authorising the placing on the market of foods and food ingredients derived from genetically modified Roundup Ready maize line GA21; and supports the Government's view that products derived from this maize meet the necessary requirements for authorisation under Regulation No. 258/97.
The House divided: Ayes 215, Noes 75.
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2005-10-19&number=61
The Ayes won by 215 to 75 (majority 140) with 0 tellers, making a turnout of 290.
That this House takes note of the unnumbered Explanatory Memorandum dated 15th July 2005, submitted by the Food Standards Agency, relating to the Draft Council Decision authorising the placing on the market of foods and food ingredients derived from genetically modified Roundup Ready maize line GA21; and supports the Government's view that products derived from this maize meet the necessary requirements for authorisation under Regulation No. 258/97.
The House divided: Ayes 215, Noes 75.
http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2005-10-19&number=61
Its the seeds
The seeds that have the terminator gene
Monsanto want to rule the entire food chain.
Once these seeds are in Uk soil, the entire food chain is affected. Non-GM maize will be wiped out. Farmers will be forced to buy Monsanto seeds year after year.
Total dominance over food.
watch this video for a great introduction to this;
http://gnn.tv/videos/21/Contaminated
The WTO was lobbied by Monsanto and Monsanto said that GATT showed that it was illegal to prevent the sale of their seeds anywhere in the world. The WTO told the EU that they couldnt stop Monsanto selling their GM seeds in the EU. The EU then told the UK that they couldnt stop Monsanto selling GM food in the UK.
The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR [Council on Foreign Relations], The Trilateral Commission – founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller – and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for, and are now moving to, implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.”
Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D., former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner
The UK parliament was following orders from the EU, the EU was following orders from the WTO.
The uk politicians are nothing more than puppets for this world government of unelected officials.
Democracy is a sham.
The seeds that have the terminator gene
Monsanto want to rule the entire food chain.
Once these seeds are in Uk soil, the entire food chain is affected. Non-GM maize will be wiped out. Farmers will be forced to buy Monsanto seeds year after year.
Total dominance over food.
watch this video for a great introduction to this;
http://gnn.tv/videos/21/Contaminated
The WTO was lobbied by Monsanto and Monsanto said that GATT showed that it was illegal to prevent the sale of their seeds anywhere in the world. The WTO told the EU that they couldnt stop Monsanto selling their GM seeds in the EU. The EU then told the UK that they couldnt stop Monsanto selling GM food in the UK.
The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR [Council on Foreign Relations], The Trilateral Commission – founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller – and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for, and are now moving to, implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.”
Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D., former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner
The UK parliament was following orders from the EU, the EU was following orders from the WTO.
The uk politicians are nothing more than puppets for this world government of unelected officials.
Democracy is a sham.
Food derived from GM Round-Up Ready maize line GA21 is now legal for sale in the UK and will be placed in all areas of the food market
you have no conception of any of these issues.
Do you disagree that Iran are deciding to trade oil in euors?
Are you the same as 'a dashing blade' who wont accept that it is happening?
You didnt even realise that the GM round-up maize was the seeds, yet you posted without full knowledge of that 'deferred division'..
None of you have produced any type of argument against the facts i produce. Everything i write is correct, documented and admitted.
When i show that just because you havent heard about something doesnt make it false, you offer no argument.
This is not a game, dont you get it?
when you come to the conclusion which is fact, will you then concede that without people like me you would not find things out?
Will you admit that the research and hard work people like I do is valuable and shouldnt be scoffed at?
Will you cease and desist battling me and use information as food for thought?
you have no conception of any of these issues.
Do you disagree that Iran are deciding to trade oil in euors?
Are you the same as 'a dashing blade' who wont accept that it is happening?
You didnt even realise that the GM round-up maize was the seeds, yet you posted without full knowledge of that 'deferred division'..
None of you have produced any type of argument against the facts i produce. Everything i write is correct, documented and admitted.
When i show that just because you havent heard about something doesnt make it false, you offer no argument.
This is not a game, dont you get it?
when you come to the conclusion which is fact, will you then concede that without people like me you would not find things out?
Will you admit that the research and hard work people like I do is valuable and shouldnt be scoffed at?
Will you cease and desist battling me and use information as food for thought?
We are living in a dictatorship founded upon myth.
The worlds self-proclaimed rulers are moving to an open world dictatorship and its through the debt based economy
This debt based economy is a fraud and everything produced by it is baseless.
There really are 13 families who claim to own the world and they use the debt based economy to enslave the populations of the world.
Sociology, cultural studies, psychoanalysis are all produced through this system and perpetuate it. They are baseless in their foundations.
Baudrillard is correct -
Simulation is no longer that of a territory, a referential being or a substance. It is the generation by models of a real without origin or reality: a hyperreal. The territory no longer precedes the map, nor survives it. Henceforth, it is the map that precedes the territory - precession of simulacra - it is the map that engenders the territory and if we were to revive the fable today, it would be the territory whose shreds are slowly rotting across the map. It is the real, and not the map, whose vestiges subsist here and there, in the deserts which are no longer those of the Empire, but our own. The desert of the real itself.
The worlds self-proclaimed rulers are moving to an open world dictatorship and its through the debt based economy
This debt based economy is a fraud and everything produced by it is baseless.
There really are 13 families who claim to own the world and they use the debt based economy to enslave the populations of the world.
Sociology, cultural studies, psychoanalysis are all produced through this system and perpetuate it. They are baseless in their foundations.
Baudrillard is correct -
Simulation is no longer that of a territory, a referential being or a substance. It is the generation by models of a real without origin or reality: a hyperreal. The territory no longer precedes the map, nor survives it. Henceforth, it is the map that precedes the territory - precession of simulacra - it is the map that engenders the territory and if we were to revive the fable today, it would be the territory whose shreds are slowly rotting across the map. It is the real, and not the map, whose vestiges subsist here and there, in the deserts which are no longer those of the Empire, but our own. The desert of the real itself.
zArk said:
That's all very well, and Baudrillard's hyper-reality, the supersession of the real by images, is a predictable enough consequence of the rule of exchange-value--which is itself an image. The trouble is, though, that unlike his former Situationist colleague Debord (who really deserves the credit for Baudrillard's ideas), Baudrillard refuses to admit that use-value *ever* existed, and also ignores the fact that exchange-value is alienated labour. This robs his analysis of the ethical critique which so so pronounced in Debord. He comes close to endorsing, or even celebrating, the postmodern condition.
Azrael23 said:
Blagsta certainly doesn't think of it as a "debating club." He doesn't debate: all he does is try to prevent *other* people from debating. His repeated attempts to disrupt and derail this thread reveal an intellectual inferiority complex that beggars belief.
phildwyer said:
ahhh but that analysis is merging the traditional structure of use value and exchange value without considering Money.
Use value and exchange value emerge through analysis of modernism. Production.
I would say that Baudrillard dismiss' the existance of use value due to this. Exchange value follows suit. All production is produced through a commodity called money, a commodity that produces itself. This is fundamental to existance of all things produced through it.
Use value and exchange value are this produce. The economy is the precession of production and thus creates a mobieus system.
Ethics and morals produced through this system are wholey rooted from within it and do not speak from an objective or subjective position -- the position is entirely subsumed by the simulacrae.
Rather than endorsing the post-modern condition, Baudrillard disavows it completely. 'Forget Foucault' clearly identifies the inherant problem of speaking from within the system. Definitions are created before the person speaks. All produce of the system is always-already.
The fundamental thing to consider is that the commodity money is in fact an image and thus is all that it produces.
Money;
it is the reflection of a basic reality
it masks and perverts a basic reality
it masks the absence of a basic reality
it bears no relation to any reality whatever: it is its own pure reflection
Money re-produces itself, it is its own pure reflection
The mirror stage, it bears no relation to to our real selves. The image subsumes us completely. We are existing as signs and this existance naturally interlinks with all images and signs. They merge into one another seamlessly. Money and the self are one.
This process is not instant or complete until money disappears from view. Like our own face is out of sight and only available as image. Money will disappear from sight completely and become us.
Viewing our own face is impossible, even if we remove our eye and turn it towards ones face the face is incomplete as the eye cannot see itself.
This is the importance of the image, it allows completion it is that Seduction that Baudrillard discusses with regard to the simulation.
The image seduces us. It offers sweet wholeness that we fail to see it isnt real. We are meant to be incomplete and here is desire for the image. Desire for the simulation. We desire to be subsumed by the image.
This desire for completion emerges out of the economy which folds back upon itself without exit. We produce children [forget foucault] and children are taught to define themselves in the image of their social definition.
The simulation moves throughout everything, perverting all concepts as we speak for it.
use value
exchange value
commodities
capitalism
politics
ideology
class
Desire is perverted, desire for the image for the complete. Desire for the Body without Organs, is re-invested in the image and signs. This is fascism, the foundations. Desire through lack. We lack the complete view of our face but the image offers it.
******************
lack is incorrectly positioned due to the foundations of social, cultural and psychoanalytical theory. The simulation produces lack, lack in being oneself. Once lack is produced the self is lost within the simulation, clambering for completion or repressing the completion. Completion in the simulation is fascism.
*********************
Reassess and re-evaluate the foundations of society and the tools we use to think about economic society.
Where are ethics and morals? lost inside the simulation, in false-subjective positions re-producing the validity of simulacra.
