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911: What makes you suspicious - now with added extra poll option!

What makes you most suspicious about the official 911 story?

  • Lack of air defence response

    Votes: 10 8.6%
  • Building 7 collapse

    Votes: 7 6.0%
  • Pentagon hole

    Votes: 6 5.2%
  • Bush response

    Votes: 5 4.3%
  • Insider trading

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • FBI / CIA coverup

    Votes: 8 6.9%
  • Demolition-like collapse of WTC 1 & 2

    Votes: 8 6.9%
  • Gut instinct

    Votes: 11 9.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 11 9.5%
  • The official theory sure is a lot more believable than the bonkers conspiraloon stuff

    Votes: 46 39.7%

  • Total voters
    116
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editor said:
Perhaps you should look to see who was hurling around the insults about posters being 'apologists' first, dreamer.

And then say sorry, if you've got the honesty.

Heh, you know full well i post with honesty. You also know that in my time here i've apologised to you both on the boards and privately. When i have something to apologise for, i do so.

But never when it's demanded, coz it's worth fuck all.
 
sparticus said:
I (and others) have presented the evidence that challenges this report many times before

No you have posted bollocks from 'experts' that haven't got a clue about the subject they are talking about.
 
Jazzz said:
Yet in none of those are the possibility that there may have been demolition charges/bombs considered at all!

Why when it is known ( and reported in the article you are moaning about) that smoke and flammable liquid (both of which were present) are capable of causing explosions do you insist it was a bomb / demolition charge?

It is equally unlikely that a UFO crash landed onto the towers bringing them down. Why not consider that possibility as well?
 
Jazzz said:
My personal view is that - whatever could have happened to the rest of the towers - the collapse of the huge central steels proves that they were blown up. They were extraordinarily thick. The planes would have little damaged them (huge thick steel columns trump aluminium debris).
How about thick steel beam meets 10 tons of titanium engine travelling at 400+ MPH?

Conducting heat beatifully down a massive heat sink they would have been cool to touch.

Please, please, please explain to me how you manage to weld large pieces of metal together. I would love to hear that fairy story.
 
Jazzz said:
In the debate on the physics.org forum someone came on to have witnessed oil depot fires and said that even with millions of gallons of blazing fuel inside you could still touch the outer skin of the steel holder - steel which was far thinner than used in the central support columns. And look at the Buncefield depot blaze - after days of mostrous inferno the skin of some holders was still intact - pretty warped, yes, but still there

Foe steel to warp like that it need to be heated to in excess of 400C yet that is safe to touch is it?

See you still haven't commented on your own evidence of the Madrid fire that clearly shows an office fire is capable of causing large steel beams to severely sag.
 
editor said:
You're a liar, plain and simple.
I will concede that having been used to using 'rappunzel's' name I may have mentioned it a few more times, I was mistaken. However, that's not the same as being a 'liar', a word which you are far too eager to bandy around.

And there was nothing 'moronic' about defending her. Rather than being pissed off with me for mentioning her name as you make out, she counts me as something of a hero.

Thanks to your failure to make amends, the site not only risks legal action from her, which I wouldn't want to see but could hardly blame her as she suffered immense distress here, but also extremely bad press should she decide to make a story out of it elsewhere.

Oh incidentally, the reason she 'flounced' when laptop asked her something had nothing to do with laptop's question and everything to do with receiving a pm from Mrs Magpie. I believe that's the last reason anyone had for doubting anything about her.

Anyway, I've said enough about her.

Oh, and pk - calm down for fuck's sake. Post people's addresses up and you get banned.

Just because Jazzz is incapable of respecting people's privacy, that's no excuse for you to act the same.
I'm not concerned about the name of my street being revealed per se. However I AM concerned about unequivocal threats and so should you. I'm not making a huge deal out of this, because there did seem to be some misunderstanding on pk's part and he was big enough to apologise, but this is really not the sort of thing you can have being posted, at all, and if I get anything like that again coming my way I will go to the police regardless.
 
WouldBe said:
How about thick steel beam meets 10 tons of titanium engine travelling at 400+ MPH?



Please, please, please explain to me how you manage to weld large pieces of metal together. I would love to hear that fairy story.
There were - I think - 47 such steel beams. Only two engines.

Plus you are missing the point that no damage could have occurred to the steels below the impact floors, and there is no force I can think of that could have brought them down.

Here is the picture of that 'heat sink'

the columns under construction


Steve Jones says very much the same in his paper, which hosts the above picture

They do NOT explain how steel-column temperatures above 800oC were achieved near-simultaneously due to burning office materials. NIST notes that office materials in an area burn for about 15-20 minutes, then are consumed away (NIST, 2005, pp. 117, 179). This is evidently not long enough to raise steel column temperatures above 800oC as required in the Bazant & Zhou model, given the enormous heat sinks of the structures. And to have three buildings completely collapse due to this unlikely mechanism on the same day strains credulity. Moreover, the Final NIST report on the Towers admits:

Of the more than 170 areas examined on 16 perimeter column panels, only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250ºC… Only two core column specimens had sufficient paint remaining to make such an analysis, and their temperatures did not reach 250 ºC. ... Using metallographic analysis, NIST determined that there was no evidence that any of the samples had reached temperatures above 600 ºC. (NIST, 2005, pp. 176-177; emphasis added.)

Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?
 
Jazzz said:
I will concede that having been used to using 'rappunzel's' name I may have mentioned it a few more times, I was mistaken. However, that's not the same as being a 'liar', a word which you are far too eager to bandy around.
No. You lied. There's no other word for it.

You claimed that you stopped referring to her by her real name when 'reminded'. You did not. You carried on.

And you still haven't explained why you chose to ignore her express request to have her name taken off these boards and why you thought it was OK to continue compromising her privacy and putting the site at risk from legal action.

Perhaps you'd like to explain now, because the FAQ is very strict on that kind of behaviour.
 
Jazzz said:
Steve Jones says very much the same in his paper, which hosts the above picture
Please note that the university has issued a public statement distancing itself from Jones and discrediting his work practices.

"Brigham Young University has a policy of academic freedom that supports the pursuit and dissemination of knowledge and ideas. Through the academic process, ideas should be advanced, challenged, and debated by peer-review in credible venues. We believe in the integrity of the academic review process and that, when it is followed properly, peer-review is valuable for evaluating the validity of ideas and conclusions."

"The university is aware that Professor Steven Jones' hypotheses and interpretations of evidence regarding the collapse of World Trade Centerbuildings are being questioned by a number of scholars and practitioners, including many of BYU's own faculty members. Professor Jones' department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review."
 
Another piece of "evidence" bitch-slapped/discredited by a reputable academic source... it's like watching table tennis, this.
 
editor said:
Please note that the university has issued a public statement distancing itself from Jones and discrediting his work practices.
You forgot to say: ARE THEY IN ON IT TOO?
:D
 
editor said:
No. You lied. There's no other word for it.

You claimed that you stopped referring to her by her real name when 'reminded'. You did not. You carried on.

And you still haven't explained why you chose to ignore her express request to have her name taken off these boards and why you thought it was OK to continue compromising her privacy and putting the site at risk from legal action.

Perhaps you'd like to explain now, because the FAQ is very strict on that kind of behaviour.
This is ridiculous!

She admires me greatly, and has no complaint with anything I've said about her.

You, on the other hand, she thinks... well let's not go there.

So in the heat of discussion I mentioned her by old login a few times because that's how we were all used to calling her. Undeliberately. Big deal. I haven't said anything bad about her.

When I first started defending her, there were a chorus of voices against me. Last time, it was only you and laptop. All the other mods appear to have rightly distanced themselves from the shameful affair, and most notably, not a word from Mrs.M.

If you want the site to be safe from either legal action or expose, you would lance the boil by simply making a statement undoing the damage. Yet you are too obstinate for this.

I'm sorry about that.
 
editor said:
Please note that the university has issued a public statement distancing itself from Jones and discrediting his work practices.
And you wonder why academics may be afraid to speak out publicly? :rolleyes:
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Don't you try to drag other mods into this as if they tacitly supported your position. I certainly don't.
<editor: identifying info removed>

No one has produced a scrap of any evidence with any substance to doubt her. I'm seeing her soon, if you have any questions you would like to clear up I can put them to her.

But why bother, when you can smear outrageously and then refuse to countenance the possibility that you were wrong?

I'm surprised at you Fridgemagnet. I thought you had seen through the appeal of the rumour mill and lynch mob.

"What must not be, cannot be"
 
Jazzz said:
And you wonder why academics may be afraid to speak out publicly? :rolleyes:
You mean 'academics' whose research is so shoddy that their own university ends up distancing themselves, pointing out that they're "not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review"?

Unless you've got proof that the entire university was also 'in on it too', I'll look forward to your reasons for supporting such poor quality research in preference to proper, peer-reviewed analysis.
 
Jazzz said:
'm seeing her soon, if you have any questions you would like to clear up I can put them to her.
Yes. Why not try and stir up all over again, eh?

In accordance with her wishes, all references to her were removed off this site at no small personal inconvenience to me, so I can only assume your constant attempts to keep bringing it up here is part of a campaign to get the site, and more specifically me, in trouble.

It's old news. It's long been removed off the site.

You're a nasty, malicious piece of shit-stirring work and I really am running out of reasons why I should let you remain here. I'll see what the other mods think.
 
Jazzz said:
<editor: identifying info removed>

No one has produced a scrap of any evidence with any substance to doubt her. I'm seeing her soon, if you have any questions you would like to clear up I can put them to her.

But why bother, when you can smear outrageously and then refuse to countenance the possibility that you were wrong?

I'm surprised at you Fridgemagnet. I thought you had seen through the appeal of the rumour mill and lynch mob.

"What must not be, cannot be"
It's no longer a subject for discussion here. Your friend does not want to see any more it appears (which is fine with me) and any further bringing up of the issue is a potential threat to the board and will be dealt with as such. Therefore I would strongly advise against it.

Condescend all you like, I'm used to it, as long as it's not related at all to any identifiable issues.
 
Just wondered if you realised what a big deal it was for a university to publicly denounce a member of staff like that. It's not taken lightly - this is someone's professional reputation we're talking about. It's that person's livelihood. Are you claiming that this is an act of censorship due to a dangerous, 9-11 consensus-threatening theory, and that there are other academics who are being cowed into silence? And if so, who's doing the censorship and why? (and don't even THINK of coming up with that "I-dunno-I'm-just-asking-questions" schtick). Or are you willing to consider that maybe the research this guy did just wasn't up to the normal (yes, peer-reviewed) academic standards? Which seems more likely to you, based on a balance of probabilities?
 
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