What's going on in the CIRCA thread?
- Thread starter the big bad pig
- Start date
Serotonin
history of all hitherto existing society is BLANK?
This thread has got ridiculous.
Zaskar didn't call the cops on BIM, he called it to report a crime that had been written about on BIM. Can you lot not see the glaring difference there.
As for him contacting BIM to get a consensus on what to do, well that raises a couple of issues.
Firstly BIM is a public site and as such anything in there is on the public domain, so why should anyone feel any responsibilty to ask the permission of another group to report a crime?
Secondly, BIM had no intention of dealing with the issue. Firstly they never attempted to hide it despite active moderation at that point (although to be fair one Vol wanted it pulled- sensible chap!).
The rest of the collectvie were more interested in looking at ways to grass Zaskar up to the NUJ for soem odd reason. Not sure they would have even heard of him seeing as they don't tend to represent nurses. They also explicitly stated that they were not going to assist the police with their enquiries.
I could go on, but then again judging by the rest of the madness in this thread no one will pay a blind bit of info to such weird things as 'facts' when they can smell a witch hunt.
And PS to whoever keeps posting on IM ( I think I know who you are) that I am Zaskar's alias, have they ever considerd such an 'egotist' as he would ever feel the need to disguise his opinions? One thing he isn't is shy in coming forwards!
Zaskar didn't call the cops on BIM, he called it to report a crime that had been written about on BIM. Can you lot not see the glaring difference there.
As for him contacting BIM to get a consensus on what to do, well that raises a couple of issues.
Firstly BIM is a public site and as such anything in there is on the public domain, so why should anyone feel any responsibilty to ask the permission of another group to report a crime?
Secondly, BIM had no intention of dealing with the issue. Firstly they never attempted to hide it despite active moderation at that point (although to be fair one Vol wanted it pulled- sensible chap!).
The rest of the collectvie were more interested in looking at ways to grass Zaskar up to the NUJ for soem odd reason. Not sure they would have even heard of him seeing as they don't tend to represent nurses. They also explicitly stated that they were not going to assist the police with their enquiries.
I could go on, but then again judging by the rest of the madness in this thread no one will pay a blind bit of info to such weird things as 'facts' when they can smell a witch hunt.
And PS to whoever keeps posting on IM ( I think I know who you are) that I am Zaskar's alias, have they ever considerd such an 'egotist' as he would ever feel the need to disguise his opinions? One thing he isn't is shy in coming forwards!
bristol_citizen
Well-Known Member
Serotonin said:
Hmmmm. Those spellings sure look familiar...
I assure you he is not me. But as wit everything else you lot will make up what you want in your little circle jerk get me party. Wish I could come too..... (not).bristol_citizen said:
I think we are all about done here.
I suggest furhter reading, zimbardo, prison experiment. No pun intended.
Zaskar said:
Some examples:
In post 35, you said, in order to make a point: “The police knoked on my door the other day asking about a stabbing round here.” When Geri asked about this you said it wasn’t ‘the other day’ (and so couldn’t be checked upon), but 5 years earlier – You seem unable to tell the difference.
Post 41, you accused Gurrier of threatening you – A lie.
In post 54, replying to Sorry, who had said you could have discussed the matter with BIM prior to calling the police, you argued that you had no direct way of contacting BIM – Hard to believe when you were previously part of the collective, something you had not been candid about (this was underlined in post 58, where you said you were not part of any ‘social movements’, apart from trade union, cnd and the local bridge club.) Later, at post 116, you admitted, “I admit i dint try to contact them, I only have a few emails. Why should I contact them…”
You’ve said that there were people endangering life by throwing rocks at a moving train, and that’s why you rang the police. But according to BIM, “A post which quite frankly is pretty unintelligable talks about picking up and dropping rocks onto metal. It's not clear from the post whether that means onto some cars that were on a train trasnport, onto the transport itself or onto the rail line. It is also unclear if the thing was moving or not.”
In post 80, you said you had no feud with BIM, but only 3 posts later you say you “loathed” them. As Bristle-KRS notes in post 93, “you've been strangely quiet on your whole fall-out with bristol indymedia (and i don't mean this latest episode).” Apart from saying you were thrown out of the collective for making a sexist remark, you have sought to cover up your history with BIM, which may put your behaviour in context.
bristol_citizen
Well-Known Member
Zaskar said:
Bet he posts in the next half hour. How many times now has he told us he's giving up posting on this thread?
The rancid little troll always does this. (Cue crazed abuse and lies from Watson...)
IPRN said:
Sorry all wrong but top marks for the effort. I loath celery but I am not feuding with it.... Sorry it's hard to be seroius now.
This is all rather poor ad hominem stuff of a very low order and is not really what these boards are all about.
FucK the lot of yer.... but you are sweet.
bristol_citizen
Well-Known Member
IPRN said:
Here in Bristol we've heard it all time and time and time again. He's been trolling Indymedia and slagging any activist in this city doing anything for over two years. I think he thinks it's clever...
In terms of what he'll do next? Probably try and get matey and then pretend it's all been a bit of a laugh... Before reappearing telling more lies and talking more deranged shit on some other thread.
Get used to it. You're in for years of this.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Well, well, well, this has really kicked off.
I can't make up my mind whether Z is an informer, a troll, someone with a bit of a grievience against BIM, or bit of a nieve reactionary. But to some extent it doesnt really matter.
It would seem like there was an article on BIM which (although Ihavent seen it) could be construed to advocate dropping bricks onto trains. Ultimately it is this article that is the problem, not Z's reaction to it - because there are lots of the above four types, and if it wasnt him it could be any of the others.
There was quite a bit of discussion here about self-policing and not grassing, but there has to be an appreciation that the police are well placed to deal with serious incidents that are well out of the control of the movement. In terms of self-policing what the movement should be doing is monitoring for things like this and passing them on collectively to the police. Refusing to co-operate seems a bit childish to me.
While I dont think that Z's actions were appropriate, I am less concerned about whether they were malicious or nieve, but about how it could have come about in the first place and what could be done so that it couldnt happen again. That article woudl seem to be totally unacceptable and there is a significant problem if people feel that they are able to post stuff like that on activist websites without getting challenged.
I can't make up my mind whether Z is an informer, a troll, someone with a bit of a grievience against BIM, or bit of a nieve reactionary. But to some extent it doesnt really matter.
It would seem like there was an article on BIM which (although Ihavent seen it) could be construed to advocate dropping bricks onto trains. Ultimately it is this article that is the problem, not Z's reaction to it - because there are lots of the above four types, and if it wasnt him it could be any of the others.
There was quite a bit of discussion here about self-policing and not grassing, but there has to be an appreciation that the police are well placed to deal with serious incidents that are well out of the control of the movement. In terms of self-policing what the movement should be doing is monitoring for things like this and passing them on collectively to the police. Refusing to co-operate seems a bit childish to me.
While I dont think that Z's actions were appropriate, I am less concerned about whether they were malicious or nieve, but about how it could have come about in the first place and what could be done so that it couldnt happen again. That article woudl seem to be totally unacceptable and there is a significant problem if people feel that they are able to post stuff like that on activist websites without getting challenged.
q_w_e_r_t_y said:
Unfortunately, we only have the alleged word of a cop, passed onto us by an established liar, to say whether or not there was any incident of 'rock-throwing at all. Whether or not it did happen, Z has certainly given the cops a very convenient excuse to examine the BIM server at a very appropriate time. Unfortunately, he is stupid/nieve enough not to realise that regardless of any actual incident the cops are unlikely to restrict themselves to looking for the perpetrators of that act alone. Z could have contacted BIM, but as he has admitted, he arrogantly and perhaps maliciously, went first of all to the cops. I hardly think that the people most endangered by this act are the idiots who posted the article about rock-chucking, assuming it was not posted by the cops themselves. As for the content of that article, I have not seen it either, but the description of it on BIM is quite different to Z's description of it. Personally I find his behaviour contemptible, and I don't think any activists should have anything to do with him. As for Indymedia, it's role is not as a gatherer of information for the police, and taking on that role would completely destroy the credibility it has built up over the years. As Z readily admitted, the cops constantly monitor Indymedia sites, so they didn't need him to alert them to the controversial posting, but only perhaps to the fact that it might be possible to obtain the details of posters from the BIM server.
Serotonin
history of all hitherto existing society is BLANK?
We have the word of a British Transport cop. I hardly think they are working with special branch to undermine G8 protests. What do you think they are planning to do, delay any trains to Edinburgh with passengers onboard with left wing views?
Anyway how about reading the original article? Just to get some perspective...
http://bristol.indymedia.org/newswire/display/23330/index.php
Anyway how about reading the original article? Just to get some perspective...
http://bristol.indymedia.org/newswire/display/23330/index.php
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Serotonin said:
regardless of the rights and wrongs in this particular situation, yes, btp do act in liaison with sb and other agencies. i'm surprised you think otherwise. it may not be their primary function, but they do do it.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
Serotonin said:
1) I have been on football trains where they've done this.
2) They do very clearly work with SB--as shown by the documentary series on Euro 96 I think it was.
3) Given the 200 mile exclusion zones applied in the 84-5 miners strike to prevent flying pickets, I wouldn't really be surprised.
Once a plod, always a plod. ACAB.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
IPRN said:
Fuck! Now I see the article I see the problem - I wouldn;t rule out a deliberate posting of this to see what reaction it creates among activists.
I think Z's behaviour is wrong, either morally or tactically, and I would be wary of becoming involved with him, however more than ever now I think that it is the article that is the problem.
No - you are right. But there is a difference between gathering information and being complicit in unacceptable things. I would not want to be part of a movement which turned a blind eye to public safety.
You can always argue, as the government do that public safety is at risk merely by gathering - as they have tried to by banning the G8Alt march but ultimately the public safety is put at risk only by aggressive police tactics.
But this article suggests actions which are likely to do harm to people as and of themselves. This is simply unacceptable.
I think this is a setup which Zasker has either innocently fallen for, or has been involved in, and I think that BIM needs to be careful about provocative postings and ensure that it acts responsibly. Imagine for example if this found its way into the Sun. "Throw Rocks on Trains to Gleneagles cry Crazed Activist Loons" . That does the credit of neither BIM nor the movement as a whole any good whatsoever.
q_w_e_r_t_y said:
Unfortunately, most Indymedia collectives are small and overworked. In recent months local fascists have exploited this situation to post all sorts of rubbish on Leeds Indymedia. I think Z has misrepresented the article, and I'm glad to have had the opportunity to have actually read it. Personally, I get the impression that he's exploited this situation to cause problems for BIM.
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