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Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

rioted said:
People have pointed guns at me, yes. The cops here have waded in a few times with batons and shields, yes. I have friends who have faced down the IDF and been severely beaten for it. Your experience?
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Same as yours really (except I'd class the people that I know who've faced-off with the IDF as acquaintences rather than friends).

So, where do you live? Let's see if we can't find you a target for this evening, Rambo.
 
rioted said:
Where do you live?
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London, near Baker Street. You?

I could demonstrate against the local M&S or bomb a local synagogue, would that help you?
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Well no, actually I'd advise against it.

It just wanted to check whether or not this:

rioted said:
Name me an Israeli target closer than a hundred miles to where I live and I'll be there this evening.
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.... was a stinking pile of bollocksy bravado from an internet bullshitter.

Thanks for letting us know.

:)
 
rioted said:
Can you name me a legitimate Israeli target more than 100 miles away from London on the British mainland?
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I'm not sure I could name you a "legitimate Israeli target" anywhere on the planet if we're talking about the legitimacy for you to attack them.

But I'll play you're delusional game for a bit.

Come on then Red Rambo, what's a "legitimate Israeli target" and how would you 'take it out', maaan?
 
sorry to butt in, just received this from israel

someone in tel aviv said:
Some info

There are daily demos in Israel protesting against the attack on the
“Free Gaza” flotilla (BTW Some of the organizers – and participants – of the flottila are Israelis). Most demos are in Palestinian towns but some are in Tel-Aviv, Jerusalem and Beer-Sheva, attended by many Israelis.

The entire Israeli press criticizes the Government for its clumsy handling of this case. Some journalists openly say the best policy was to let the ships reach Gaza.

But the present government consists of people who care about their career far more than about the country. Their main effort is to curry favours with Israeli public opinion, most of which is nationalistic. They are influenced more by their PR advisors than by their political ones.

In Israel the flottila is described as an attempt by Turkish Islamic
supporters of HAMAS to break the Israeli siege on Gaza thus enabling Hamas to get rockets via the sea and use them against Israel. The fact that Hamas has stopped all attempts to fire rockets into Israel from Gaza carries no weight with most Israeli, and is silenced in Israel.

For those Israelis who see the flotilla as a forerunner of rocket
imports into Gaza an attack in international waters is legitimate action. They follow the ancient Hebrew saying: “Anyone coming to kill you – rise early to kill him”

In other words, international law notwithstanding, most Israelis accept
that HAMAS wants to destroy Israel (as Hamas openly states) and therefore “preventive” action against Hamas is justified even if it violates international law.

However, the government will have to consider the immense damage to
Israel’s image which will – in due course – have economic and political consequences. Israel sells Turkey arms worth about US$2 Billion, per year. The termination of this trade will be very painful to the Israeli arms industry.

In the last decade on average 1 million Israelis spent their annual
holidays in Turkey. This is over now.

Most Israelis are very depressed about this turn of events but I doubt
whether it will change their politics. They want a change of leaders, not of policies.
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Spymaster said:
I'm not sure I could name you a "legitimate" Israeli target anywhere in the world. But I'll play you're delusionary game for a bit.

Come on then Rambo, what's a "legitimate" target and how would you take it out, maaan?
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Take a deep breath.


You suggested I should be manning the barricades.

Stupidly I used the word "targets" to ask where you thought I could demonstrate my displeasure to the Israeli state.

At the first opportunity I will be demonstrating at the Israeli embassy. I don't know of any nearer places where I can directly address Israel. In the meantime I have made do with leafletting in the local town square. There are plenty of Jewish establishments here but they are not the enemy. Where do I protest against Israel? I will not go tooled up in any way whatsoever. But I reserve the right to defend myself.
 
Spymaster is just drawing you all into nonsense arguments because you're upset at current events and outraged at the fuckwits running (and agreeing with) israel.
 
The entire Israeli press criticizes the Government for its clumsy handling of this case. Some journalists openly say the best policy was to let the ships reach Gaza.
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Sorry but I just don't believe that. I have been reading the English language Israeli press all day and I see nothing but frothing mouthed jingoistic hysteria.

There are daily demos in Israel protesting against the attack on the
“Free Gaza” flotilla (BTW Some of the organizers – and participants – of the flottila are Israelis). Most demos are in Palestinian towns but some are in Tel-Aviv, Jerusalem and Beer-Sheva, attended by many Israelis.
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Yes there are. Unfortunately they are drowned out by enormous pro Israel pro IDF anti Turkey demonstrations all across the country. The opposition is small and isolated and increasingly under physical attack.

Sorry to piss on the bonfire but there is a wave of patriotic hysteria sweeping Israel right now, and we shouldn't delude ourselelves that it is otherwise.
(and before you ask i am also in touch with friends in Tel Aviv)
 
Do we know who died yet?

Any more about the paintball guns?

Pressure on Israel to end the blockade has reached a level I have not seen before:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10218450.stm

Mr Cameron told the Commons: "We should do everything we can to make sure this doesn't happen again.

"Friends of Israel - and I count myself a friend of Israel - should be saying to the Israelis that the blockade actually strengthens Hamas's grip on the economy and on Gaza.
"And it's in their own interests to lift it and allow these vital supplies to get through."

He added: "We should do everything we can through the UN, where resolution 1860 is absolutely clear about the need to end the blockade and to open up Gaza."
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Earlier Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg questioned whether it was in Israel's interest to "confine" so many people.

He said the blockade was a "humanitarian catastrophe" and neither sustainable nor tenable "in its present form".
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And whilst the USA has been taking a fairly predictable stance in terms of trying to water things down, the language seems a little stronger to me, at least in terms of the blockade:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_and_canada/10211034.stm

Clinton also said that the situation in Gaza is "unsustainable and unacceptable."
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Good article on the Israeli public and press by Ray HaCohen

The Flotilla in the Israeli Press

In any normal place, you would expect masses to take to the streets and protest. Indeed, precisely this happened all over the globe. Not in Israel. A few hundred people did demonstrate in Tel Aviv and in several other towns, but then again a few hundred gathered to throw eggs at the Turkish embassy. ...

How is this consensus achieved? How can you turn millions of fairly educated citizens into silent lambs, or worse, into supporters of their own state’s terrorism?...
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More than anything else, this crazy operation is evidence for the place that Israel has reached. There is no point in elaborating. Whoever has eyes in his head sees and feels it. No doubt, within hours some swift minds would find a way to turn the (natural, justified) feelings of guilt of many Israelis into a vociferous accusation against the entire world. The shame, however, would be more difficult to come to terms with.”
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http://original.antiwar.com/hacohen/2010/06/01/the-flotilla-in-the-israeli-press/
 
Spymaster said:
I agree. But can you appreciate my reluctance to accept that the 'defence' of this ship was necessary, useful or sensible?
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Would you be reluctant to accept that defence of your car or home against invasion would be necessary, useful or sensible?

If so, what's your address, and where do you keep the spare set of car keys?
 
Mooncat said:
It does seem a little odd that a supposedly elite force would do such a thing. None of my squaddie mates can understand it. Its almost like they were asking for it. :hmm:
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Well, to be fair, the British army doesn't really go in for provocation operations in a big way (Ulster excepted), especially not when they're combined with publicity stunts.
 
elbows said:
Do we know who died yet?

Any more about the paintball guns?

Pressure on Israel to end the blockade has reached a level I have not seen before:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10218450.stm
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Whilst Hague's words were welcome at first, as the statement and questions went on they became less and less impressive, finally ending up with the admission that all we are looking for is the status quo to be maintained - ie the Quartet conditions for talks remain in force, we will ask the Israelis nicely to drop the blockade, Blair keeps his sinecure.

What should happen is, of course, that at the minimum there is a credible, independent (this means non-Israeli) and effective investigation into these events; a serious and powerful (ie: able to stop it) enquiry into the legality of the blockade must take place as soon as possible; and finally the Quartet should take notice of reality and start to openly speak to and deal with Hamas, given that they are in control of Gaza (and should, due to the election, be in government in the West Bank as well).
 
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