cesare
shady's dreams ♥
You have not addressed the issue of physical reaction.
Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
You have not addressed the issue of physical reaction.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You're right. I know little of the above.
What I do know is that fighting armed commandos on a boat (thus precluding the 'flight' option) with sticks and spoons is probably the most fucking stupid course of action available.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Of course it does.
IDF uses an Israel-produced version of the US M84 stun grenade which, although "non-lethal", does indeed disorient, partially through overwhelming the balance mechanism that resides in the inner ear. Not an appropriate device to use on a crowded ship, IMHO.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if you're on a ship in the middle of the mediterranean, i would submit the flight 'option' is already precluded.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if i'd known it would be that easy, i'd have done it dome time ago.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
And if they choose to do that anyway?
Given that there was no way for the resisters to know whether that was indeed the case, then there wasn't much of a motive to, was there?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Yes I have.
Until further information is available to the contray I believe that there is a case to criticise the defence action as unhelpful, and that it's possible that the situation was further inflamed intentionally by some of those aboard, a la Black Bloc.
Spion
I hear ya
Here we have the very definition of prejudice
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
In the face of a reflexive response to being assaulted, resistance is the most likely outcome. The commander of the assault operation would have known this and should have planned accordingly if he wished to minimise harm to both sides. That he didn't is significant.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
At least you tried.
Attacking an armed Israeli commando with a stick is far more likely to result in death or serious injury than attempting to surrender, imo.
Given that attacking armed Israeli commandos with sticks is virtually certain to end in death or paraplegia for you and others around you, I'd say that there was every motive.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Where's that brick wall smiley?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Thing is, if you're an officer with a passing familiarity with "policing actions" (as the IDF are), then you'll deliberately (unless, of course, your desire is to provoke an aggressive reaction) "manage" the situation to avoid provoking that physical reaction, and you'll use troops hardened to such actions who won't have the same "fight or flight" reaction burning through them. This didn't happen, so provocation through attempting to manipulate that "physical reaction" becomes a distinct possibility, IMO.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
As was the initial use of paintball guns.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
= it was their fault. Not the IDF's.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
That relates to another key issue about all this. We still have only very patchy accounts from the surviving passengers due to the Israelis still holding most of them incommunicado, but several of them claim that the Israelis were shooting before they tried to land commandos on board the ship.
The IDF account which dominates the media right now may not truthfully describe what preceded the fight in the image-enhanced footage from the IDF. As a result, discussions about the resistance of the passengers may be framed in deliberately misleading terms due to the IDF's account being virtually unchallenged.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Depends. The consequences of not resisting on the boat was likely to be deportation. Those who chose not to resist presumably knew this. The consequences of not resisting the holocaust was almost certain death for you and your people.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
'Intentionally', or 'stupidly'? You're all over on this. Either you're hiding some other motive, or you really don't know what you're trying to say.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Anyway, the issue now, and where our energies might want to be focused is on a) ending the blockade, b) an independent inquiry into the assault on the aid convoy.
Clegg is an obvious lever point in the UK government, given his stated beliefs before coming into government. We should remind him and his party that they used to believe that words hedged with conditions weren't enough, and that action by the UK government to end the blockade was necessary.
They may turn out to have no shame, but that isn't a reason for us to sit back.
Clegg is an obvious lever point in the UK government, given his stated beliefs before coming into government. We should remind him and his party that they used to believe that words hedged with conditions weren't enough, and that action by the UK government to end the blockade was necessary.
They may turn out to have no shame, but that isn't a reason for us to sit back.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
I'd say a more useful aim would be making the next wave of blockade-busting ships even bigger and better.
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