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Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

Johnny Canuck3 said:
I can hear them talking now.

"Well, it might get pretty tense, but the Israelis are usually pretty well behaved, so there's no fucking way that they'd murder us in international waters.

I mean, they're bad guys, but not that bad, shurely? Nah, let's just put it out of our minds!"
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What is your point here? That it's somehow the Freedom flotilla's fault?
 
editor said:
Not even Turkey - up until now, Israel's sole Muslim ally in the area - expected them to illegally attack an unarmed ship in international waters and start murdering people on-board, Johnny.

I know one of the women in the convey - a respected activist and journalist - and I'm pretty damn sure she wasn't expecting to be met by murdering Israeli soldiers in open waters.
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'twas always thus with him though.

On a boat headed for Gaza? Dont be surprised when the Israelis shoot you. Stood on a street corner in Baghdad? Dont be surprised when an Apache blows you to bits with 30mm cannon fire.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
I can hear them talking now.

"Well, it might get pretty tense, but the Israelis are usually pretty well behaved, so there's no fucking way that they'd murder us in international waters.

I mean, they're bad guys, but not that bad, shurely? Nah, let's just put it out of our minds!"
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Herer's a thought, why not get yourself over there and ask them yourself? Be careful now, we wouldn't want you to get hurt....
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
That they might be killed by the israelis.
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Internationals go to palestine and defy Israel all the time. Rachel Corrie* incidents are very very rare. She's the only one I can think of offhand.

These were not Palestinians. This incident today was unprecedented so why would they think that they were actually risking their lives.


*killed by a Caterpillar thingy.
 
quimcunx said:
Not going on the American's reaction at the UN today.

Perhaps the UN should suggest my plan to the US government.
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:(...

well, i hope there won't be retaliatory palestinian strikes

and i hope those israelis who believe that occupation needs to come to an end will now feel more compelled to put pressure on their government.

and it seems inevitable that turkey will end diplomatic relations with israel
 
Fedayn said:
I think they expected it to get very tense in Israeli waters yes, sounds reasonable to me. But to be murdered in international waters? Well given no-one else the US/UK and especially the Turkish govt who sponsored it expected it, then no.
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And this is after some of the greatest minds in Israel had spend days looking at how to address this situation, and they can up with this.
 
I mean, the fact that Congresswoman McKinney's boat was attacked outside Israeli waters shouldn't have served as a warning to anyone!

Nearly a day after the detention of former US lawmaker Cynthia McKinney by Israeli forces, Washington has yet to make a reaction.

Israeli Navy detained former US congresswoman and Nobel Prize laureate Cynthia McKinney and twenty other human rights activists on board a relief boat outside Israel's territorial waters on Tuesday as they were heading to Gaza on a humanitarian mission.

Tel Aviv claims the boat was trying to break Israel's two-year siege on Gaza.

Ms McKinney -- the 2008 Green Party nominee for President of the United States-- has accused Tel Aviv of violating the international law by seizing an aid vessel in international waters.

"This is an outrageous violation of international law against us. Our boat was not in Israeli waters, and we were on a human rights mission to the Gaza Strip," McKinney said in a statement.
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http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=99532&sectionid=351020202
 
quimcunx said:
Internationals go to palestine and defy Israel all the time. Rachel Corrie* incidents are very very rare. She's the only one I can think of offhand.

These were not Palestinians. This incident today was unprecedented so why would they think that they were actually risking their lives.


*killed by a Caterpillar thingy.
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Obviously she and James Miller should have expected to be killed by the IDF and stay away if JC3 is to be believed
 
...or the fact that in 2008, they rammed and shot at another aid ship in international waters.

A boat delivering 3.5 tonnes of Cypriot medical aid to the Gaza Strip has been rammed by Israeli naval vessels in international waters, activists say.

The Free Gaza campaign group, which operates the Dignity, also claimed shots were fired towards the crew.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7805075.stm


In spite of all that, an attack by israel in international waters is an obvious impossibility outside of the realm of consideration.
 
Oh my heart bleeds. Please think of the poor soldiers.

A soldier identified only as a sergeant told reporters at a military briefing that the activists on board "were armed with knives, scissors, pepper spray and guns." He said he was armed only with a paintball rifle. "It was a civilian paintball gun that any 12-year-old can play with," he said. "I saw my friends on the deck spitting blood."
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It gets better. Those poor defenceless crack special forces troops, were totally unprepared for the vicious assault by poets and artists

The high-seas confrontation was a nightmare scenario for Israel, which insisted its soldiers were simply unprepared for what awaited them on the Mavi Marmara, the ship carrying 600 of the 700 activists headed for Gaza. Instead of carrying their regular automatic rifles, the Israelis said they went in with non-lethal paintball guns and pistols they never expected to use.
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They have got to be kidding. Do they really expect anyone to buy this utter shit?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians
 
1%er said:
And this is after some of the greatest minds in Israel had spend days looking at how to address this situation, and they can up with this.
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That does tend to give credence to the view that, when you look at this, at the Dubai assassination, at Cast Lead and at the Second Lebanon War, its not that the Israelis have become nastier (after all they have done much worse in the past), its that they have become shit at being nasty.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
The problem with coming late to these kinds of threads, is it's like being that skinny guy out of Super Bad, walking into the locker room of an american college football team, pre game.

You've seen it in films. They've got paint smeared on their faces, and they're roaring and yelling at each other, and slamming each other on their shoulder pads. They've got their testosterone worked up for the big game.

So I walk in and say something at odds with the prevailing mood, and all I get is the testosterone, in the form of smilies, personal remarks, low blows etc. Because the team is too pumped up at this point to do much more than incoherent vocalizing.
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The answer to this is to read the thread first and, if you are completely clueless about the topic on hand, either read up on it first or keep your trap shit. That would ensure you avoid the embarrassment of defending the indefensible simply because you fancy being contrary and daring or whatever.

Any other contrary positions you;d like to adopt today? Perhaps you could argue that rape is sometimes justified or that Mandela was a terrorist, just for the lolz. You bellend.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
I don't know enough about it to say with certainty one way or another.
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Well let's take a couple of steps back.

Do you know that the Israeli occupation of Palestine is illegal?

Do you think the Israeli illegal occupation of Palestine is justified?


Do you know that the Israeli blockade of humanitarian aid to the Palestinians is illegal?

Do you think the Israeli illegal blockade of humanitarian aid to the Palestinians is justified?

Now if you think they are justified then it would be logical to think that you might find yesterday's actions justified.

If, if, you think these illegal actions are not justified in what way do you think their action yesterday might be justified?
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
...or the fact that in 2008, they rammed and shot at another aid ship in international waters.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7805075.stm


In spite of all that, an attack by israel in international waters is an obvious impossibility outside of the realm of consideration.
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You are so blatantly blaming the victims.

"Well, you know Israel are prepared to commit state sponsored acts of terror in neutral waters"

"Well, what do you expect when you go out dressed like that?"
 
Interesting take on the situation here:

ANALYSIS / Israel has forgotten the lessons of the Exodus
Israel played into Hamas' hands by storming the boats of the 'Freedom Flotilla.'

Despite having its eyes wide open, Israel fell into a trap. Israel knew that the organizers of the flotilla wanted to present the Israel Defense Forces to the world as an army that does not hesitate to use force. The flotilla organizers wanted deaths, casualties, blood and billows of smoke. And this is exactly what Israel gave them.

Every child knows that the conflict here is one of consciousness,images, emotion and gut-feelings; not one of justice or logic. Therefore, Israel should have acted differently.

Israel's decision-makers should have revived memories of Israel's own history. It shows just how short a historical memory the prime minister, defense minister, chief of staff, and Navy commander all have. They don't remember the story of the Exodus ship in 1947.

The British Mandate authorities imposed a blockade on the shores ofthe land of Israel and Jewish leaders believed it was their right and their duty to break it. The Jewish immigrants on the Exodus decided to forcefully oppose every attempt to stop them. The Jewish leadership wanted to arouse the world's conscience and gain a victory in the battle for international sympathy.

more
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