Unite against Fascism (UAF) has failed (?)

[sihhi]

That's the conclusion from this piece from Permanent Rev (split from Workers Power).

http://www.permanentrevolution.net/entry/3007

People should build demo's [sic] locally, involve their trade unions, and when in the town centres try to be peaceful and co-operate with the police. If you want to confront fascists physically, do it in small groups, away from the peaceful protests, or even better do it before they even get into town. Small autonomous and mobile groups that have no names, no banners, no PA and no way of being kettled. That's the way forward.

The conclusion seems to be "wind up the UAF". So do you agree? Should the UAF be wound up and people active in it go back to what they where doing before it was set up - trade union work, geographical work, student work or SWP work or whatever.

Would it be a gain or a plus to the wider movement if UAF anti-fascism was simply withdrawn, not assuming X or Y in its place, just withdrawn?

 

[butchersapron]

Their anti-fascism means demos, it means the EDL. It doesn't mean the BNP. It's hyper-breathy. There's an argument to be made, that one is not it. (and it's fantasy of teenage trot attack squadrons is laughable).

 

[sihhi]

Their anti-fascism means demos, it means the EDL. It doesn't mean the BNP. It's hyper-breathy. There's an argument to be made, that one is not it. (and it's fantasy of teenage trot attack squadrons is laughable).

I didn't say it was a thoughtful piece.

 

[butchersapron]

Don't worry - never for a second thought you believed it was!

 

[ajdown]

Small autonomous and mobile groups that have no names, no banners, no PA and no way of being kettled

Sounds like they're trying to emulate that group that have been protesting Scientology for 2 years.

 

[butchersapron]

If you want to confront fascists physically, do it in small groups, away from the peaceful protests, or even better do it before they even get into town.

This is just words. Who are they going confront? Where? With who? How will they identify their targets? What info gathering ops have they got? What backup when it goes very wrong very quickly? This bollocks works on muppets like the BPP, not stuff like this with more than a handful of goons. Childish and dangerous apolitical posturing. What do they think would be the wider result of some muppets attacking a few isolated edl at a station miles away?

 

[sihhi]

Leaving aside whether the EDL are the main enemy - I agree they're not.

On the basis of demos alone (given that university student unions and socialist parties will not be able to stand still when an EDL gathering is called) it does highlight the failure of UAF demos.

 

[past caring]

Is this cockers' lot?

 

[sihhi]

This is just words. Who are they going confront? Where? With who? How will they identify their targets? What info gathering ops have they got? What backup when it goes very wrong very quickly? This bollocks works on muppets like the BPP, not stuff like this with more than a handful of goons. Childish and dangerous apolitical posturing. What do they think would be the wider result of some muppets attacking a few isolated edl at a station miles away?

As you know, their whole term of reference is the "revolutionary left". It will give their group a solid image for the rest of the left - it doesn't have to be acted out. The excuse will be but we're too small we're trying to persuade others to our cause so we can't do it yet.

 

[butchersapron]

Is this cockers' lot?

It is, though he seems to have 'gone missing'? Whither the workers defence squad and the combat organsiation now?

Re: UAF Tactics bolton: can we summarise them - from the point at which they agreed with the OB to have a counter-demo sharing a square with the EDL (is that what happened? Is that accurate?)

 

[butchersapron]

As you know, their whole term of reference is the "revolutionary left". It will give their group a solid image for the rest of the left - it doesn't have to be acted out. The excuse will be but we're too small we're trying to persuade others to our cause so we can't do it yet.

Yep, spot on. Revolutionary branding. Lot of it about.

 

[Fedayn]

Is this cockers' lot?

Well i'll be....

 

[past caring]

Re: UAF Tactics bolton: can we summarise them - from the point at which they agreed with the OB to have a counter-demo sharing a square with the EDL (is that what happened? Is that accurate?)

I haven't been following developments (the term is used very loosely - their biggest problem is there have been no developments at all in their thinking) but I take the view that you're being overly generous - there are no tactics worthy of the name; nothing beyond doing what they've always done, and the main imperative to be seen to be doing something......

 

[kavenism]

I haven't been following developments (the term is used very loosely - their biggest problem is there have been no developments at all in their thinking) but I take the view that you're being overly generous - there are no tactics worthy of the name; nothing beyond doing what they've always done, and the main imperative to be seen to be doing something......

This^
The emphasis on the unconditional imperative to act, and the resultant circus that's been travelling round the UK this summer is only more evidence that they are incapable of thinking a politics that directly challenges the mainstream neo-liberalism that leaves the space for goons like the EDL to exist in the first place. All UAF have is a reactionary response to a reactionary group, a spectacle in the absence of any alternative.

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting that for once criticisms this type appear to be surfacing from within the UAF milieu - and by that i don't just mean SWP members/fellow travellers - i mean those who've been broadly supportive of the turn up make a racket, leave approach. That's not a direct ref to you kavenism, don't know your politics, but there's been a definite breaking of ranks all across the various discussions of this for the last 3 or 4 days.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Not voted. Mixed feelings. UAF have achieved certain things and fail to achieve others. They will carry on anyway, but there needs to be something else. In my locale that may well start to happen. We shall see. Easier said than done.

 

[butchersapron]

They've certainly achieved all the EDL could have hoped for.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

They've certainly achieved all the EDL could have hoped for.

In some ways cleary, but without large counter-demos the EDL would be able to do alot more swaggering and parading round the streets, intimidating people as they went. People at the counter-demo (certainly round where I live) are more likely to be not really UAF affilated, but they do provide a certain amount of publicitiy and organisation which contributes to a size of demo that is comparable to, or in excess of the nazi-front. It is certainly better that people are part of a counter demo than not, and UAF organises a fair amount of them.
This is complex stuff as I'm sure is obvious.

 

[butchersapron]

No they wouldn't, the UAF stopped nothing and no -one - every counter-demo was policed in (except maybe brum) - they didn't actually stop the EDL walking around being all white and w/c and uncouth at all. The police did that.

It is certainly better that people are part of a counter demo than not, and UAF organises a fair amount of them

Why? If it doesn't do what it's billed as doing? They sure do.

 

[butchersapron]

What are these UAF successes you mentioned then?

 

[butchersapron]

Oh wow, i've just read the article:

The EDL had been sneaking people into our crowd through these exit points the police had set up, so early on I stood on one of the exits with a few people, trying to spot potential EDL and point them out. I feel the Police allowed people who were clearly EDL into our section of the crowd and put a lot of innocent people in danger by doing so.

Between about 10-12 the police gradually became more and more hostile, refusing to allow groups of protestors from getting into the kettle to protest, resuting in chants of "Let them in" from the UAF PA system.

The local Asian youth were up for it this time, although they didn't come 'til later, they seemed much smarter and better organized than the UAF. They didn't get kettled, and they didn't spend 4 hours in the rain being battered by the police

actually, it might be cockers with the mic.

 

[ernestolynch]

'potential EDL' lol. I can well imagine the criteria used to determine this...

 

[ymu]

It is, though he seems to have 'gone missing'?

He's alive and well. Don't know why he's not been on Urban much.

 

[past caring]

Probably too busy organising an international brigade to somewhere. Hope he remembers the jam buttys this time.....

 

[trevhagl]

i think the media will always be closer to the fascists than the extreme left. Fascists don't strike, don't beleieve in a welfare state etc so yer bound to get the media attacking UAF etc at least as much as the nazis

 

[past caring]

 

[The Black Hand]

i think the media will always be closer to the fascists than the extreme left. Fascists don't strike, don't beleieve in a welfare state etc so yer bound to get the media attacking UAF etc at least as much as the nazis

I can go with this. The way the fascists get cozy with the police is a disgusting sight.

 

[treelover]

Originally Posted by trevhagl

i think the media will always be closer to the fascists than the extreme left. Fascists don't strike, don't beleieve in a welfare state etc so yer bound to get the media attacking UAF etc at least as much as the nazis

Eh,the EDL are not all fascists and as yet, they are a single issue group and have no made no pronouncements on the economy,etc.

 

[The Black Hand]

Eh,the EDL are not all fascists and as yet, they are a single issue group and have no made no pronouncements on the economy,etc.

Trevs talking about fascists Treelover.

 

[ernestolynch]

so yer bound to get the media

Cor blimey.