UK man sentenced for having manga images of children

[sim667]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/10/uk-convicts-man-over-manga-sex-images-of-children/

I couldn't see another thread about this, so thought I'd start one.

A 39-year-old UK man has been convicted of possessing illegal cartoon drawings of young girls exposing themselves in school uniforms and engaging in sex acts. The case is believed to be the UK's first prosecution of illegal manga and anime images.

So I understand having images of children engaged in sexual activity is totally abhorrent and horrible in every way. But it seems we've now had a prosecution of simulated images, to me this smacks a little bit of prosecuting someone for a thought crime, and really does set quite a scary precedent.

 

[butchersapron]

Fuck him for the market creating paedo he is. This is the second time he's been convicted for this sort of offence btw.

 

[Spymaster]

It's not a thought crime. It's someone wanking over images of little girls being sexually abused. Be they real or simulated the cunt's a wrongun.

Fuck him.

 

[sim667]

I hadn't noticed it's the second time.

It's a bit too far as far as I'm concerned. I don't have any and have never been interested in manga at all, but having watched bits and pieces with freinds a common theme is that female characters are presented as of questionable age and designed often to be very innocent. So who then decides what age the character depicted is for a prosecution, and how can they be sure of their decisions?

 

[butchersapron]

I hadn't noticed it's the second time.

It's a bit too far as far as I'm concerned. I don't have any and have never been interested in manga at all, but having watched bits and pieces with freinds a common theme is that female characters are presented as of questionable age and designed often to be very innocent. So who then decides what age the character depicted is for a prosecution, and how can they be sure of their decisions?

Don't confuse manga as such with this paedo shit. That's a start point - blurring this line is also the start point for the paedo-defence.

Who decides? Legally - the law and juries.

 

[Spymaster]

Loads of manga is dodgy as fuck as well.

 

[Idaho]

Is the appropriate response to distasteful or objectionable things always prosecution?

 

[butchersapron]

This is the 2nd time this bloke has been a test case - the first one in 2008 (which in itself suggests an ongoing active interest in encouraging the production of images of sexual abuse of children) involved him manufacturing images of incest and sexual abuse of children that was so realistic the jury decided it might as well have been photographs.

 

[killer b]

I think encouranging the pleasure in and normalisation of the rape of children is something that should be discouraged vigorously, so I'm pretty relaxed with this kind of thought crime being prosecuted.

 

[butchersapron]

Is the appropriate response to distasteful or objectionable things always prosecution?

Yes of course, every time. That's clearly the position of those who think this prosecution was justified. Does that make it easier for you? Does that make it black and white enough for you?

 

[butchersapron]

Hey, we're all consumers in our own way right? Who is the real nazi here?

 

[frogwoman]

fuck him tbh.

 

[Spymaster]

Is the appropriate response to distasteful or objectionable things always prosecution?

In this case of course it fucking is.

Christ almighty.

 

[killer b]

First they came for the child pornographers...

 

[sim667]

When we're having discussions about treating actual paedophiles as a mental health issue and the police are saying they will not prosecute or chase users of low level child pornography images, is an appropriate response then to go and prosecute someone who has simulated images of children, get the ones who are actually causing real child abuse. Personally I don't think so at this moment.

 

[butchersapron]

When we're having discussions about treating actual paedophiles as a mental health issue and the police are saying they will not prosecute or chase users of low level child pornography images, is an appropriate response then to go and prosecute someone who has simulated images of children, get the ones who are actually causing real child abuse. Personally I don't so.

Have the police said that?

And to argue as you do is to endorse that logic.

 

[likesfish]

Very little sympathy if he's been caught a 2nd time.

But theres a big diffrence between fake and comics and real,images of real children being abused now theres manga that skirts the line and them theirs blatant padeo shit.

Black lagoon for instance has hansel and gretal 12 year old assasins who are into torture because they survived years of being used in snuff movies very grim and horrible and in not portrayed as sexy in anyway but horrible and tragic. Disturbing and justifiable in the story and very grim.

 

[sim667]

Have the police said that?

And to argue as you do is to endorse that logic.

They have said they are unable to prosecute all people investigated

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29692685

So basically they're saying out of investigation indentifying 20,000-30,000 people with images or real children they prosecuted 660.

So to me it really does seem like a total waste of time to prosecute someone over simulated images until they can actually deal with the demand for images of real child abuse.

 

[butchersapron]

They have said they are unable to prosecute all people investigated

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29692685

So basically they're saying out of investigation indentifying 20,000-30,000 people with images or real children they prosecuted 660.

So to me it really does seem like a total waste of time to prosecute someone over simulated images until they can actually deal with the demand for images of real child abuse.

So they didn't really say "they will not prosecute or chase users of low level child pornography images" - they said they'd like to but don't have the resources to do so. That's a huge difference.

Frankly, if, in their investigations they do come across this sort of thing then crack on with prosecution. That's different again from using all your resources to uncover this sort of stuff. Prosecution is not the same as investigation.

 

[Idaho]

Yes of course, every time. That's clearly the position of those who think this prosecution was justified. Does that make it easier for you? Does that make it black and white enough for you?

Whoa. You are the one going black and white on this. I thought there might be a discussion, but apparently that isn't possible.

 

[butchersapron]

Whoa. You are the one going black and white on this. I thought there might be a discussion, but apparently that isn't possible.

Oh god. Agree with idaho or burn books.

 

[Idaho]

You are mental. Where have I been even vaguely dogmatic?

 

[Spymaster]

Whoa. You are the one going black and white on this. I thought there might be a discussion, but apparently that isn't possible.

I think it is pretty black and white.

If you get off on images of children being sexually abused you face prosecution if you are caught.

Good.

 

[butchersapron]

You are mental. Where have I been even vaguely dogmatic?

Take that book burners!

Is the appropriate response to distasteful or objectionable things always prosecution?

 

[Idaho]

Black lagoon for instance has hansel and gretal 12 year old assasins who are into torture because they survived years of being used in snuff movies very grim and horrible and in not portrayed as sexy in anyway but horrible and tragic. Disturbing and justifiable in the story and very grim.

This artistic/value judgement is the tricky thing when it comes to the law. The original aim of the law can be made with a set of beliefs and expectations which change in time.

 

[Idaho]

Take that book burners!

Yeah just look at my shrill strident opinion crushing all debate.

 

[Idaho]

I think it is pretty black and white.

If you get off on images of children being sexually abused you face prosecution if you are caught.

Good.

I understand the sentiment and the intention. I'm just questioning whether it's possible and if there are unintended consequences.

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah just look at my shrill strident opinion crushing all debate.

There's quite clearly an implication in the question of yours that those who think this prosecution is justified are being crude book-burners unable to deal with the nuances and subtleties that you so easily mange to divine in the case.

 

[Ax^]

No one better not have that manga







Saying that it was not really pictures that got him in trouble it was creating interactive 3d models of children that can be used in those odd sex simulators. Well that's what I took from tomb raider style bit in the article.


Now that a little bit more dodgy than manga

 

[Idaho]

There's quite clearly an implication in the question of yours that those who think this prosecution is justified are being crude book-burners unable to deal with the nuances and subtleties that you so easily mange to divine in the case.

Yes clearly. If you are mental.