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Uganda anti-gay law

frogwoman

No amount of cajolery...
No thread on this? I know it's been discussed on here before how evangelical groups had a hand in these policies as well as individuals like Scott Lively (who wrote 'the pink swastika'.) Given all the discussion on Russia etc it would be useful to take a look at the motivations and forces behind this too - in addition are there any ways we can offer solidarity?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014
 
Who brought the current ugandan government to power? Who are they allied with? USA or China?
 
Who brought the current ugandan government to power? Who are they allied with? USA or China?

They brought themselves to power in 1986.The US is closely involved in "poverty reduction" initiatives, and there is an intelligence presence (involved in Kony/LRA stuff and Rwanda/Great Lakes region. Probably Southern Sudan, too).

China's involvement is overwhelmingly commercial: businesses, debt relief and infrastructural development.
 
i notice that both my local CofE schools are affiliated/twinned/whatever with Ugandan schools, and that the Diocese of Worcester seems very 'Uganda heavy' with regards to development work/twinning/whatever - is there some jiggery-pokery going on with Ugandan churches looking to stifle criticism in the CofE by getting all touchy-feely with CofE people with a guilt complex?

the Mrs's School has got the Uganda bug recently - exchange trips for teachers, fund raising etc... it used to be Ghana. is there some kind of plan being enacted here - whether Uganda looking to influence CofE, or CofE trying to influence Uganda?
 
i notice that both my local CofE schools are affiliated/twinned/whatever with Ugandan schools, and that the Diocese of Worcester seems very 'Uganda heavy' with regards to development work/twinning/whatever - is there some jiggery-pokery going on with Ugandan churches looking to stifle criticism in the CofE by getting all touchy-feely with CofE people with a guilt complex?

the Mrs's School has got the Uganda bug recently - exchange trips for teachers, fund raising etc... it used to be Ghana. is there some kind of plan being enacted here - whether Uganda looking to influence CofE, or CofE trying to influence Uganda?

The CofE has, historically, been very prevalent in Uganda. Pre-independence, the Catholic/CofE split got so bad in some villages that it led to sectarian violence. I have no idea whether there is a recent agenda for influence as such, that sounds too dogmatic and assertive for the C of E... ;)
 
i notice that both my local CofE schools are affiliated/twinned/whatever with Ugandan schools, and that the Diocese of Worcester seems very 'Uganda heavy' with regards to development work/twinning/whatever - is there some jiggery-pokery going on with Ugandan churches looking to stifle criticism in the CofE by getting all touchy-feely with CofE people with a guilt complex?

the Mrs's School has got the Uganda bug recently - exchange trips for teachers, fund raising etc... it used to be Ghana. is there some kind of plan being enacted here - whether Uganda looking to influence CofE, or CofE trying to influence Uganda?

Isn't the Archbishop of York from Uganda? I think he is from somewhere like that, and had to flee many years ago for some reason I can't remember now.
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.

if Uganda is a sovereign state with the absolute right to do and say as they please, then so are we, with the absolute right to give money, or not give money, to whoever the fuck we please.

being old fashioned, i choose not to give my money, and the implied political legitimacy that goes with it, to a bunch of book-burning, gay hating morons.
 
Whilst I deplore the anti-gay law in Uganda, I think this piece by Jeremy Seabrook, written in 2004, gives us some understanding of the part played by English colonisers in embedding anti-gay laws in the countries they invaded. Museveni is a tyrant and a dictator, under his rule thousands upon thousands of people have been murdered, yet he has, up until relatively recently, been very much in favour by the British government.

Comment
It's not natural
The developing world's homophobia is a legacy of colonial rule
The cancellation of Jamaican reggae artist Beenie Man's concert at east London's Ocean Club because of "concerns for public safety", in view of lyrics inciting attacks on gay men, raises once more the tangled relationship between homophobia and the legacy of colonialism.
In Jamaica, the offences of buggery and gross indecency were framed in the Offences Against the Person Act of 1864, derived from the English Act of 1861. The wording is chilling: "Whoever shall be convicted of the abominable crime of buggery, committed either with mankind or an animal, shall be liable to be imprisoned and kept to hard labour for a term not exceeding 10 years."

When the constitution for the newly independent territories of Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago and Barbados was drawn up in 1962, its architects honoured their former rulers by preserving colonial values which would themselves be abolished in Britain within five years. These laws had their roots in Victorian morality, but they were embraced enthusiastically by the black nationalist middle class; and, like many illiberal attitudes in the world, these filtered through society, and were transmuted into a virulent machismo among the poor; a consequence, perhaps, of people having been stripped of everything else, including the promises of a better life after independence. It is out of this culture, fortified by contemporary evangelical Christianity, that the culture of music-driven homophobia has grown.

Jamaica, of course, is far from the only country coming to terms with the imperial bequest of hatred of same-sex relationships. The Naz Foundation, which works on Aids prevention in India, recently challenged the constitutionality of Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code. This forbids "sexual acts against the order of nature". The response of the central government was that homosexuality cannot be legalised in India as the society disapproves of such behaviour. "The purpose of Section 377 is to provide a healthy environment in the society by criminalising unnatural sexual activities against the order of nature."

In fact, such laws were often inspired by imperial anxieties about homosocial cultures among their subordinate peoples. Even today, it is common for westerners, observing young men holding hands, and mistaking the meaning of this non-sexualised touching, to marvel at the "openness" of gay relationships in India.

Colonial laws still stand in many other countries, too. Indeed, it is clear the British had an off-the-peg penal code, since in Malaysia the same law is also called Section 377. The only difference is that in India it is almost never used, whereas in Malaysia it was employed recently, and to great effect, against the former deputy premier, Anwar Ibrahim.

In Africa, the number of the article varies, but the wording of the offence is virtually identical. In Zambia "carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature" is punishable; in Uganda "any person who has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature is guilty of an offence and is liable to life imprisonment". The Nigerian Penal Code states that "any person who has carnal knowledge of any person against the order of nature ... is liable to imprisonment for 14 years". So, too, in Botswana, in Zimbabwe, in Tanzania; but not in South Africa, which has one of the most progressive records in the world in legitimating homosexual relationships.

"Carnal knowledge" evokes missionaries shocked by bare breasts as they strove to bring decency to the wayward children of empire. The colonial legislation first named something which, although familiar in all societies, had not previously been cast in the terms in which the Victorians framed their own experience. "Carnal knowledge" sounds so much more portentous than the enjoyment of sexual relations.

Swahili has no equivalent for "homosexual" - although a word for feminised man exists, and the word basha indicates a male penetrative partner. Boy-wives were recognised in Zande, Arab/Bantu and Siwi cultures, often with family approval. The boy would later be married to a woman, the former "husband" paying the bride price. The anthropologist EE Evans-Pritchard's informants among the Zande of central Africa in the 1930s stated that men had sex with boys "because they liked them". Sometimes such relationships were said to occur "by accident", when people were sleeping; but as long as social fictions and propriety were maintained, these remained unspoken. "Carnal knowledge" and "the order of nature" sharply redefined customary, unnamed or marginal behaviours, and brought to bear upon them the blinding knowledge of their inherent sinfulness.

Same-sex love has had a highly significant place in Indian tradition, too. In most Indian languages there are words for feminised men ( kothis ) and for their partners ( giriyas or panthis ); they describe behaviour, not identity - what people do, not who they are. To label customary and complex relationships as "homosexuality", as colonial officials did, was the work of characteristic and arrogant reductionism; while the subsequent essentialising of identity by their enlightened descendants in the form of lesbian or gay man strikes even more violently against the multiple competing aspects of the human person in traditional societies.

The violent homophobia in Jamaica, which saw 16 men killed in prison in August 1997, because it was believed they were homosexual, the murder of the gay activist Brian Williamson last month, and the emergence of a popular culture whose principal characteristic seems to be to rid the world of "battyboys", is simply a more extreme example of a familiar cultural oddity, whereby colonised peoples often internalise and perpetuate values which pass away in the countries which originally imposed them; just as mid-Victorian leg-of-mutton sleeves still cover the bare shoulders of many African women, and as red tape is still used to bind up documents in Indian government offices. When the west revisits Africa or India, declaring that gays - not homosexuals - raise questions of human rights, who is to wonder if what they hear is the fundamentalist preachings from the mouths of local bishops fulminating in the frozen blood-curdling rhetoric of the early missionaries, or the urge, through pop culture, of distorted - and largely powerless - masculinity to kill "chi-chi men"?

The penitent imperialists have, by and large, revised their earlier repressive sexual attitudes. (Not exclusively so, as the case this week shows, of the guest house in Scotland which refused a double bed to two gay men.) We are confronted by voices from the grave, the far from still tongues of our long-deceased predecessors. And we do not know how to respond to them.

Work against oppression and violence has to rely to some degree on notions of "universal human rights", although these are as much a matter of faith to this age as the divine prohibitions on illicit carnal knowledge were to the age of empire. But even more important than this, there has to be a collaborative and equal labour between activists of both north and south. Since both our past colonialism and our present globalisation are inextricably bound up together, so the work of emancipation can only be achieved jointly.

· Jeremy Seabrook is working on a book about cross-cultural dialogue between Indian and western gay men.

comment@guardian.co.uk
 
BBC news at 10 is covering this now. The newsreader said that gay relationships were illegal before this new piece of disgraceful legislation, however, there was, surprise surprise, no reference to the fact that it was the English who introduced such laws in the first place.

An friend of mine from uni, Kalundi, was kidnapped by government agents a few years back, for voicing opposition to the government in his radio shows. To get a better understanding of some of these regimes, its worth reading Ngugi wa thiong'o 's Petals of Blood set in post/neo colonial Kenya.
 
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President Museveni just signed the anti-gay law in Uganda.
It means LIFE IMPRISONMENT for gays and lesbians, and SEVEN YEARS IN JAIL for anyone helping them.

Our friends in Uganda are ready to fight back. To do it, they want support and voices raised across the world.

We won’t stop fighting these laws in Uganda and around the world – whether it’s in court, in the streets, or in the media, but we need so many more people to join in – and start by signing the petition.

We got 100,000 signatures in a few hours - can we get 1 million this week?Please click the buttons below to share on Facebook or Twitter:


Or just hit forward on this email and ask people to sign the petition here:
https://www.allout.org/kill-the-bill


Thanks for going All Out,

Andre, Jeremy, and the rest of the All Out team
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.


Do you have any views on the rights of Ugandan homosexuals to take their own decisions and conduct their own affairs, and their right to self-determination?
Do you feel the same about those who campaign against FGM are interfering in things that don't concern them? Personally, I don't accept that we are the chattels of the rulers of the states we happen to live in.
 
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theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.
Why for you does the "right" of a sovereign state trump an individual's "human rights"? And where do these "rights" come from anyway?

Why not rephrase what you wrote as: "a person is sovereign over their own body and they'll conduct their affairs according to their own decisions and not those made for them by the Ugandan church or government etc. Respect for human rights entails respect for a person's sovereignty, respect for their self determination. Respect for the rights of a person to order their own life and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities."
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.
Look at these imperialist bastards:

Demonstrators-outside-Sou-008.jpg


You prat.
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.

Excuse me, but what is this utterly incoherent crap?

Solidarity with all LGBT people in Uganda.
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.
Fuck that Mr. Two Wrongs!
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.

Is Uganda a true democracy?
(Hint: Very few states are true democracies, even when their politics are "democratic" - The UK certainly isn't).
If Uganda isn't a true democracy, then Uganda's PEOPLE are not having affairs conducted based on their own opinions, but by those of their socio-political elite (as is almost always the case everywhere).

My concern is that what we have in Uganda is a reproduction of laws that serve the interests of those seeking a convenient social scapegoat, and who wish to deploy colonial-era attitudes as (as elucidated earlier in the thread) a method of constructing that convenient scapegoat. At another juncture this might be based on Uganda's inter-ethnic rivalries, or on the friction between Uganda's Muslim and Christian cultures. Right now it's being based on whether people like to have relationships with people of their own biological sex.
 
theyre a sovereign state and theyll conduct their affairs according to their own peoples decisions and not those made for them by the EU, United states , Stephen fry, Peter Tatchell or the Guardian. Internationalism also entails respect for peoples sovereignty, respect for their self determination . Respect for the rights of peoples to order their own societies and not have them ordered for them by hostile and belligerent foreign entities.
Oh, that's ok then. :D
 
When I was in Ghana in 2011, I picked up one of the local papers, and the front page story was about clergy saying they would oppose the govt if it was 'soft on gays'. And who decides what counts as being 'soft on gays'? The clergy themselves no doubt.

The background to all this is ultimately the changes that Africa has been seeing since structural adjustment days - high growth rates, emergence of small but growing 'middle classes' (but of course what does 'middle class' even mean in this context?) and persistent, deep poverty, and exploitation of the working class. And then there's the entry of China to keep things interesting.

Put all that together, and you've got a wave of social change, and social disruption, which might well lead established social groups (e.g. old school clergy who are being pressured by the emergence of American-backed 'prosperity gospel' churches) to secure their position by picking a fight on turf they think they can dominate.

So that's why I'd agree with ViolentPanda's point about scapegoating above - at least up to a point. The interesting thing is why this isn't being expressed in a wave of witch-hunting (which would also be endorsed by the mad evangelicals) or ethnic violence, but is focussing on smashing the gays.
 
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