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Trans Day Of Visibility

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have you ever explored your dark side?
Wasn't sure where to post this but as its an international event and its topical I put it here.

International Transgender Day of Visibility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

International Transgender Day of Visibility is an annual holiday occurring on March 31[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Transgender_Day_of_Visibility#cite_note-1'][1]
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[2] dedicated to celebrating transgender people and raising awareness of discrimination faced by transgender people worldwide. The holiday was founded by Michigan-based transgender activist[3] Rachel Crandall in 2009[4] as a reaction to the lack of LGBT holidays celebrating transgender people, citing the frustration that the only well-known transgender-centered holiday was the Transgender Day of Remembrance which mourned the loss of transgender people to hate crimes, but did not acknowledge and celebrate living members of the transgender community.

In 2014, the holiday was observed by activists across the world — including in Ireland[5] and in Scotland.[6]
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[/URL]

I'm visible enough but I'm lucky in that I tend to look fairly cis anyway, many of us don't. For that reason this day exists to challenge the discrimination we face and to be a time for us to celebrate who we are. I'll be posting stuff at work and on Social media about this tomorrow using the hashtag #TDOV.

What would be great if as many people who identify as trans or as trans allies also posted about this tomorrow, using the hashtag and trans people - we want to see your selfies!
 
Please forgive my alternative take, I don't want to have a pop at you but some of your wording got on my goat.

This day exists because some people can't pass as a straightforward gender and so its harder for them to be visible, and they are unlucky compared to you?

I'm really not sure thats what you meant to suggest, or that you meant to latch onto an extremely narrow idea of what visibility is.

Trans people - I don't care if you post selfies or not. Be visible whatever way you feel you can.
 
elbows said:
Please forgive my alternative take, I don't want to have a pop at you but some of your wording got on my goat.

This day exists because some people can't pass as a straightforward gender and so its harder for them to be visible, and they are unlucky compared to you?

I'm really not sure thats what you meant to suggest, or that you meant to latch onto an extremely narrow idea of what visibility is.

Trans people - I don't care if you post selfies or not. Be visible whatever way you feel you can.
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I have no idea what your problem is.
 
I was talking about transphobia, and the way you accidentally reinforced it with your misguided suggestion that visibility is all about whether you pass or not. I can see that I'm wasting my time.
 
I would like to apologise for offending AuntiStella. However if they can't see why it might offend people with more complicated gender issues to have all this shit about easily passing as cis thrown around in a thread thats supposed to be encouraging visibility across the whole trans spectrum, then I still think I'm wasting my time.
 
Epona said:
It's from Latin, loosely translated, it means "the same as". Trans means "opposite" or "across from". So in terms of gender identity, cis (loosely) means "identifying as the same gender you are born in".
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StoneRoad said:
tonysingh - cis refers to people that identify as their birth gender ie not trans

e2a snap Epona beat me by milliseconds, but gives a fuller explanation
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Thank you for the explanations!

:)
 
elbows said:
I would like to apologise for offending AuntiStella. However if they can't see why it might offend people with more complicated gender issues to have all this shit about easily passing as cis thrown around in a thread thats supposed to be encouraging visibility across the whole trans spectrum, then I still think I'm wasting my time.
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I don't think she meant it in the way you think, more of a 'I don't have to deal with as much shit as other trans people'??
There are similarities with race, ie a very light skinned black person who can 'pass' as white doesn't have to deal with as much racism.
 
moon said:
I don't think she meant it in the way you think, more of a 'I don't have to deal with as much shit as other trans people'??
There are similarities with race, ie a very light skinned black person who can 'pass' as white doesn't have to deal with as much racism.
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I'll happily concede that a misunderstanding may have occurred along this dimension of the issue.

I don't know, I think I will make it worse if I try to pick apart what I thought they meant or what I'm getting at (possibly far more similar than I first thought) as I expect it will just go wrong.
Instead, here is an article I just read which gets into this dimension in a number of interesting ways and probably has much we can ponder and agree on.

The Power of Our Trans Visibility

Cheers.
 
See, I read what Stella wrote as acknowledging that some trans people will experience more discrimination because they don't pass easily, with the implication being that society is more willing to accept people who fit into the narrow gender binary, and that's a problem - and we should be supporting all trans people, whether they want to pass as male/female or not, and supporting those who would like to pass but can't for whatever reason.

I didn't read it as reinforcing the idea that the goal should be to pass, or to reinforce a binary.

Of course being able to pass shouldn't be the primary goal, or the only goal available to people. The reality is that society is easier to navigate if you do pass, which is something that 1) makes it difficult for those who don't conform to the binary; and 2) makes it difficult for those who want to but can't.

Life is still difficult for those trans people who do pass, because there are instances where it may be necessary to still identify publicly as trans (particularly when it comes to official circumstances, legal, medical, etc.). Arguably life is even more difficult for those who don't pass, whether because they can't or because they don't want to. Nothing in what Stella wrote appears to go against that in any way.
 
It was almost spooky timing there moon, no sooner had I read that article than I read your post and you were hitting the very same nail on the head!
 
I have some understanding of these issues as a colleague is currently transitioning from female to male, and I have family members who are black and identify as black but look European white..
 
Personally I'd like to see more emphasis in the future in highlighting and bigging up trans people who don't pass. We have a decent amount of high profile trans people now (well, I say decent amount, I mean relatively speaking), but they are the likes of Janet Mock, Caitlyn Jenner, Lavern Cox... they pass. I saw a feature in Buzzfeed yesterday about young trans people who were showing pictures from their transition, and all of them looked cute and lovely before they transitioned and cute and lovely after they transitioned. And that's fine. The more positive representation and visibility for trans people the better. But where are the trans celebrities who don't pass (either by choice or because they simply aren't able for one reason or another)? Where are the features on young trans people who don't pass? Where are the features on older trans people, who didn't begin transitioning until later in life, with a focus on how it offers a whole different set of problems and obstacles and issues to those who can begin their journey early on?

I think that's going to be a problem in years to come, as the loneliness and fear and anxiety many ordinary trans people feel is exacerbated by seeing society embrace the people they can never hope to be. And society in general will become more accepting of trans people who can pass, but remain wary and often hostile to those who don't.
 
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Thinking about this, over the last 10 to 15 years; I have had, as either and both, a number of colleagues or friends that identify as trans. Going back as far as 15 years, I must know at least a dozen individuals, probably more. Some of whom pass and others don't, but that's not a priority for me - the friendship is.
 
Vintage Paw said:
And society in general will become more accepting of trans people who can pass, but remain wary and often hostile to those who don't.
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To quote myself, we're seeing this as a by-product of the bathroom legislation in the US.

Trans people who pass will continue to be able to use the bathroom that matches their gender. Unless someone is inspecting chromosomes or insisting on medical histories and in some cases strip searches, no one will know that they are trans.

Trans people who don't pass are the ones who will feel the brunt of these laws. They're the ones who will likely be assaulted. They're the ones who will be accosted regardless of which bathroom they use.

This isn't to blame in any way people who do pass. Rather it's to argue that we need to broaden our understanding of what acceptable representations of gender are, and to go to bat for and support those who don't fit into the easy boxes.
 
Vintage Paw said:
Personally I'd like to see more emphasis in the future in highlighting and bigging up trans people who don't pass.
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That entire post of yours does a great job of highlighting one of the things that powered my ill-conceived ranting earlier in this thread. I'm probably oversensitive about stuff that treads into this area in a manner I took the wrong way.

Anyway the day looks to have been a success on twitter at least - took me half an hour even just to skim through the last 3 hours posts that have the hashtag. And I hardly saw any idiots misusing it.
 
Vintage Paw said:
Personally I'd like to see more emphasis in the future in highlighting and bigging up trans people who don't pass. We have a decent amount of high profile trans people now (well, I say decent amount, I mean relatively speaking), but they are the likes of Janet Mock, Caitlyn Jenner, Lavern Cox... they pass. I saw a feature in Buzzfeed yesterday about young trans people who were showing pictures from their transition, and all of them looked cute and lovely before they transitioned and cute and lovely after they transitioned. And that's fine. The more positive representation and visibility for trans people the better. But where are the trans celebrities who don't pass (either by choice or because they simply aren't able for one reason or another)? Where are the features on young trans people who don't pass? Where are the features on older trans people, who didn't begin transitioning until later in life, with a focus on how it offers a whole different set of problems and obstacles and issues to those who can begin their journey early on?

I think that's going to be a problem in years to come, as the loneliness and fear and anxiety many ordinary trans people feel is exacerbated by seeing society embrace the people they can never hope to be. And society in general will become more accepting of trans people who can pass, but remain wary and often hostile to those who don't.
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We live in a culture that is so geared around how people (especially women, cis or trans) look, that unless something changes in terms of general outlook wrt a person's worth as something other than appearance - it's going to be a problem for people who don't 'pass', living in that milieux. It's not due to trans-hate as much as it is to do with an idealised (and often unobtainable) notion of what is beautiful.
 
Incidentally, I meant to write almost precisely what I've written today last night, before anyone else had replied to the thread. But I was tired so didn't :D

It's just interesting the thread went in that direction anyway. I think it shows that while there has been some good progress made in some areas, there's still so much work to do, and what has been done already is imperfect - as with everything that must progress in increments.
 
Epona said:
We live in a culture that is so geared around how people (especially women, cis or trans) look, that unless something changes in terms of general outlook wrt a person's worth as something other than appearance - it's always going to be a problem for people who don't 'pass', living in that milieux.
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It's probably going to become even more obvious, at least for a while, because in countries such as the USA the mainstream media has embraced at least certain aspects of trans stuff, and some media aren't afraid to be awfully superficial. I think I saw a headline about Vogue having its first trans model feature today or this week, which I'm sure has some positive aspects but can also I'm sure bring us all the downsides of the fashion bubble etc.
 
Vintage Paw said:
See, I read what Stella wrote as acknowledging that some trans people will experience more discrimination because they don't pass easily, with the implication being that society is more willing to accept people who fit into the narrow gender binary, and that's a problem - and we should be supporting all trans people, whether they want to pass as male/female or not, and supporting those who would like to pass but can't for whatever reason.

I didn't read it as reinforcing the idea that the goal should be to pass, or to reinforce a binary.

Of course being able to pass shouldn't be the primary goal, or the only goal available to people. The reality is that society is easier to navigate if you do pass, which is something that 1) makes it difficult for those who don't conform to the binary; and 2) makes it difficult for those who want to but can't.

Life is still difficult for those trans people who do pass, because there are instances where it may be necessary to still identify publicly as trans (particularly when it comes to official circumstances, legal, medical, etc.). Arguably life is even more difficult for those who don't pass, whether because they can't or because they don't want to. Nothing in what Stella wrote appears to go against that in any way.
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Bingo! In my own clumsy way this is the point I was trying to make.
I spent about 18 months not passing and I appreciate how hard it is. Luckily my hell ended. But i talk to trans people (mostly women) who don't pass and probably never will. So I accept I have a level of privilege, even though I don't pass 100%, I no longer get that much abuse. I'm more likely to be harrased by men that can't seem to control themselves or take no for an answer.
 
Epona said:
We live in a culture that is so geared around how people (especially women, cis or trans) look, that unless something changes in terms of general outlook wrt a person's worth as something other than appearance - it's always going to be a problem for people who don't 'pass', living in that milieux.
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I agree.

Some people try to describe gender as a spectrum, with cis at one end and trans at the other, but I don't think that's useful at all.

In fact, any kind of spectrum isn't useful, because it's far more complex than a sliding scale.

That being said, if we're going to try to use a spectrum, something like this would be better than having cis and trans at opposite ends:

gender.jpg

(It's not ideal... nor precise... just throwing ideas out there)

Surely the goal should be that we understand and accept that people of all genders may outwardly and inwardly express at points on the spectrum between what we've traditionally understood to be feminine and masculine, and that none of those points in relation to that person's gender are any more ideal or 'normal' than any of the others.

There has been plenty of discussion and argument around the fear that trans people reinforce the gender binary that many feminists have worked so hard to dismantle for so long. Obviously that's codswallop, not least because many cis feminists could be said to reinforce that binary themselves whenever they present and/or feel to be near the 'trad. feminine' end of that utterly non-representative and daft scale I made up there.

But understanding that a person of any gender, be they cis or trans or otherwise non-binary, can express and identify with a gender expression at any point along that scale and be accepted, is surely how we both undermine the idea of anyone needing to conform to a binary, and help support trans people against the discrimination they face.

My example here is very lacking, I'm sure someone could do far better, this isn't really my area. My goal really was to try to show that the purported goals of some feminists to 'smash gender' isn't anathema to the goals of trans and non-binary people who simply want to be accepted as who they are. And we should highlight and support those who don't fall at the very ends of the scale, because it serves us all well in the long run.
 
Vintage Paw said:
Personally I'd like to see more emphasis in the future in highlighting and bigging up trans people who don't pass. We have a decent amount of high profile trans people now (well, I say decent amount, I mean relatively speaking), but they are the likes of Janet Mock, Caitlyn Jenner, Lavern Cox... they pass. I saw a feature in Buzzfeed yesterday about young trans people who were showing pictures from their transition, and all of them looked cute and lovely before they transitioned and cute and lovely after they transitioned. And that's fine. The more positive representation and visibility for trans people the better. But where are the trans celebrities who don't pass (either by choice or because they simply aren't able for one reason or another)? Where are the features on young trans people who don't pass? Where are the features on older trans people, who didn't begin transitioning until later in life, with a focus on how it offers a whole different set of problems and obstacles and issues to those who can begin their journey early on?

I think that's going to be a problem in years to come, as the loneliness and fear and anxiety many ordinary trans people feel is exacerbated by seeing society embrace the people they can never hope to be. And society in general will become more accepting of trans people who can pass, but remain wary and often hostile to those who don't.
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Again. I entirely agree. That's why as a trans woman who passes I feel an obligation to stand up with those who don't pass. Forgive me for not writing more but I'm on a crowded train and have to get off soon.
 
Indeed, further to my post about the scale, by suggesting that trans people are upholding the gender binary, some feminists are actually reinforcing it themselves.

They're assuming and suggesting that all trans people are binary and/or aim to present as traditionally masculine or feminine, but that's absolutely not true.

There are as many trans women who wear jeans and shave their heads as there are cis women. Likewise, there are as many trans men who hate football and moisturise their face as there are cis men. There are trans men who still wear make up. There are trans women who have facial hair. There are trans women who will never undergo surgery. There are trans men who will carry babies. And there are non-binary people who don't classify themselves as men or women or sometimes one or the other or both, who might be traditionally masculine or feminine or neither. There are as many trans women who rankle at traditional gender roles and sexism as there are cis women. (I'm talking proportionally here, since obviously there are fewer trans people in general than cis.)

Suggesting that a trans woman presenting as traditionally feminine and saying she feels like a woman will somehow uphold the gender binary 1) assumes all trans women are the same, 1.1) ignores the countless trans and non-binary people who don't observe the binary, and 2) ignores the fact that endless cis women (including feminists) present as traditionally feminine and say they feel like a woman.

Trans-ness by its very nature disrupts the idea of the gender binary and of gender role conformity. It should be celebrated by feminists as a way to join together many different types of people in undermining one of the ways patriarchy seeks to divide, categorise and control us.

And part of that means - to bring it back to my original points and indeed I guess the point of this thread - being aware of and accepting of those cis and trans people who fall in the middle, because they're the ones - cis and trans alike - who face the most discrimination, either from patriarchy in general or more specifically by transphobes.
 
elbows said:
Will you accept my apology AuntiStella?

As for me, I wish I could cast a bit more personal light on matters but I don't know what I am, to be honest I may as well have been a brain in a jar for the vast bulk of this century.
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As someone who has met you and knows others who have met you too, who have at various times agreed on how amazing you are.
I think you would be surprised at how many fans you have in the world. :)
 
elbows said:
Will you accept my apology AuntiStella?

As for me, I wish I could cast a bit more personal light on matters but I don't know what I am, to be honest I may as well have been a brain in a jar for the vast bulk of this century.
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Of course. Sorry I didn't understand your objection or i would have explained, but I can see what you thought I meant now.
 
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