I was at the STUC annual demo against racism and fascism in Glasgow on saturday and the SSP,SWP platform/Glasgow Committee To Welcome Refugees contingent were chanting "No borders, No nations, stop the deportations !". When I went to the pub afterwards, a good few of the local punters who had seen the demo passing were under the impression that the demo was about unrestricted immigration and were none too pleased. From my perspective, a slogan along the lines of "No deportations, Amnesty now" would have been more sensible given the high degree of disquiet up here about the deportation of failed asylum seekers, it doesnt seem to me that raising a maximum demand of the type that the SWIPES seem to be doing is very helpful in building a broad campaign against deportations. What do others think.
SWP slogan.
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Phototropic
Active Member
Yeah but it doesn't have that simple in the head cheer leader quality 
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
It's fucking typical really - an approach aimed at the already convinced rather than at winning people over. The only surprising thing is that even the SWP seemed to have realised that "no borders" isn't a useful way to approach things when they started opposing that position within Respect.
Its bizarre really, in that the swipes have undoubtedly been the backbone of much of the very active campaign in these parts in defence of refugees and it is a campaign that has gained a higher degree of support then might be expected in some of the deprived WC communities in Glasgow, so they then initiate tactics that not only alienate the unconverted but also allow LP and its press allies to portray the campaign as barmey whenever they feel loike it. press and
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i remember being on a number of demonstrations where the trots have been ruthlessly baited when they started that stupid "what do we want..." fuckwittery - when the anarchists joined in with "decent chant ... now!" 
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
in future i'll direct all lost looking foreigners to the ruc offices, where they're sure to find a ready welcome from the swappies working there.hibee said:
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Nigel Irritable said:
And people wonder why when ordinary people of a left of centre persuasion like myself get pissed off with the SWP as everything they do seems calculated to build support for fascists and undermine any genuine efforts to build bridges betweendifferent communities.
darren redparty
a very bad man
The demand for open borders is the right one, only if it is accompanied with serious work within the impoverished communities where asylum seekers are dumped, providing support to those communities and preventing the yellow press and the fascist leaches from seeking to blame the refugees for the plight of those areas.
This of course is exactly what the swp won't do as it jumps frantically from one front group to another in its insatiable hunger for fresh student blood to replenish its depleted ranks.
I was suprised that nobody has pointed out the RANK HYPOCRaCY of the SWaP arguing against and voting against open borders in RE'PEC' whilst their clones on the street continue to repeat the same slogans on the street
This of course is exactly what the swp won't do as it jumps frantically from one front group to another in its insatiable hunger for fresh student blood to replenish its depleted ranks.
I was suprised that nobody has pointed out the RANK HYPOCRaCY of the SWaP arguing against and voting against open borders in RE'PEC' whilst their clones on the street continue to repeat the same slogans on the street
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
darren redparty said:
Actually this thread highlights almost exactly the opposite, in quite an enlightening fashion.
On the one hand, the SWP is criticised by ultra leftists for not fighting for Respect to take a position saying 'No Borders'. The insinuation here is that the SWP is abandoning basic socialist principles to get more votes - when in fact the Socialist Party have not got a position on No Borders and yet do not get the same abuse that Respect get for this. Anarchists on here proudly declare themselves somehow better fighters for immigrants than the SWP and hold up their 'No Borders' position to prove this, at times like this.
On the otherhand, the SWP is criticised by reformists and Rightwingers on here for defending the slogan 'asylum seekers are welcome here' or as on this thread, when SWP members chant 'No Borders' (which is the SWP position of course). What is odd here is that anarchists who usually talk about how committed they are to 'No Borders' join in the chorus attacking the SWP here even though say, 'Glasgow Campaign to Welcome Asylum Seekers' as has already been mentioned on this thread is a serious campaign with local support.
The fact that the SWP is attacked from both the Right and 'Ultra Left' here suggests to me that the SWP has probably got it about right. SWP members who chant 'No Borders' on a demo defending asylum seekers after working in local campaigns to stop deportations are not 'hypocrits'. The real hypocrits are those who try to make out the SWP is both 'giving into racism' by not upholding 'No Borders' in Respect, while also attacking the SWP for 'stirring up racism' when they raise that slogan in the anti-racist movement.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
the point is rather that the SWP are being hypocritical substitutionists. having slagged the SP off for years for opposing the call for 'No Borders' (esp at that SA conference), they then do exactly the same thing, using the same rationale in RESPECT!!rebel warrior said:
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
belboid said:
Does the Socialist Party itself as a Party have a No Borders position - like the SWP?
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
belboid said:
Or that the SWP are happy for Respect to evolve as a centrist organisation as opposed to a revolutionary organisation in the hope that Respect will then be more attractive for reformists...
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
belboid said:
Temporarily substitutionalist - I'll concede that - until Respect is a mass centrist party.
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
articul8 said:
No Respect is currently centrist, because of the organisational backbone of it is still the SWP (a revolutionary organisation).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
could you please identify the poster who yr quoting here?rebel warrior said:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so, the ruc is currently centrist because it's spineless?rebel warrior said:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
rebel warrior said:Temporarily substitutionalist - I'll concede that - until Respect is a mass centrist party.
so the ruc's a temporarily substitutionalist centrist party?rebel warrior said:
rebel warrior said:
I take it I'm one of your reformists and rightwingers. The reason the slogan "refugees are welcome here" (which I waved a lollipop under in my SWP days) was so toilet was that it was incredibly patronising for middle class outsiders to swan into an area and declare whether or not the residents were welcoming anyone or not. Hadn't asked them first, had they? I actually think its teacher like do-as-I-say tone was one of the most damaging shots in the foot by the left in the past two decades. In my own case it started me asking questions about the SWP's attitude to working class communities.
KeyboardJockey said:
I had a friend in the SWP {he's since left} he told me the bigger the bnp can get, the bigger the swp can get.So in a way they need each other to grow. Because the bnp is gaining alot of support ,The SWP have the potential to become very big.
darren redparty
a very bad man
this is horrendous- a straight copy of the german cp 'after hitler, us' slogan of the 1930s, a compacency that led straight to the concentation camp
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