Southbank skateboard park - proposed re-location

[shygirl]

Some of you may be aware that the Southbank Centre is proposing to move the skaters from the undercroft, where they have gathered for over 30 years, to a spot under Hungerford bridge. It is still at planning stage and submissions can be made to Lambeth (see link below).

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ail&utm_term=0_89a8f12bef-0ea8108a50-59540617

My son has really good memories of times spent at the undercroft. His friend, Louis Tingle, who passed away in 2004, virtually lived in the place at one point, such was his love for skateboarding and the friends he made there. A couple of days after the funeral, family and friends gathered there to lay flowers and see the tributes to Louis graffed on the walls. For me, its one of very few spaces in London, or anywhere for that matter, where young people can come together, do their thing AND be a source of admiration and interest to the wider community and visitors to the area. Views of a skateboarder:

Finn Andrès, 24, recent graduate
'This place is very well known, nationally and internationally – so when I started skateboarding at 14, you just knew this was the place to go. Almost all of the close friends I have now, I met here. I have friends from very wealthy backgrounds and friends from deprived backgrounds. It’s a really good example of an unprogrammed, uncontrolled space which is left to young people to use for free. None of us are against a redevelopment of the Southbank Centre that improves access to free events. What I’m against is the conversion into retail units. It's ironic that in seeking to redevelop the centre to improve access to culture, the centre is destroying perhaps the most democratic and vibrant example of culture anywhere on the South Bank'. The proposed space under Hungerford Bridge won’t work,' continues Finn Andrès. 'The shape of it is wrong – it’s too square – and it’s much smaller. We’re all just going to be hitting into each other. Also, it doesn’t have the history. The whole importance of the Southbank is that it was organic: skateboarders appropriated a disused space and over the past 40 years an entire community has flourished here. I think places like this are incredibly valuable to cities, especially when the general dynamic is moving more towards the commercialisation of everything'.

If anyone feels strongly about this proposed move, please send your comments to Lambeth.

 

[_pH_]

I was up there yesterday, the skaters have a good campaign going, and they had comment forms to fill in for them to send to Lambeth which I did. It's a special place for me, I used to skate there 25 years ago, too old to do so now, but it's great to see it still being used in the same way and will be a terrible shame if it goes.

edit: just submitted a comment online too. Belt and braces.

 

[ringo]

Spent a lot of time skating there in the 80's and 90's. I've been supporting this, but sadly I'm not convinced we'll win.

 

[Pickman's model]

it's always nice to see the skaters there

 

[Crispy]

I got a response in on this a few weeks ago. It's a proper landmark. Cultural history and all that. Public institution land, too so they really ought to have a bit more consideration for this sort of thing. It's a truly terrible bit of urban design in the first place, but its new use is an excellent re-appropriation and adds life to the area. It should be built around, not on.

 

[editor]

Damn straight. The kids made it theirs and it's now as much a part of the area as whatever's on in the Festival Hall.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I got a response in on this a few weeks ago. It's a proper landmark. Cultural history and all that. Public institution land, too so they really ought to have a bit more consideration for this sort of thing. It's a truly terrible bit of urban design in the first place, but its new use is an excellent re-appropriation and adds life to the area. It should be built around, not on.

This.

I am not, and have never been a skater. In fact I might go as far to say I find the whole skater thing a bit annoying.
But that's my problem.
The skaters have always been a part of the southbank as long I have known it. There seems to be a genuine culture and community around it, and I have never felt any malice or intimidation from the skaters, that have always been quite respectful of the passers by and the area in general (from what I have seen).

 

[Fozzie Bear]

There is a petition here, fwiw (I think responses to the Council are far more imporant and effective at this stage):

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...op-the-relocation-of-the-southbank-skate-park

(50,000 signatures so far).

Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/sosresistance

 

[purves grundy]

It's an incredible place. The buzz I got from the times I went there in the 80s and 90s, seeing the pics in the skate mags of all the famous Yanks that dropped in (and still do)... hard to put into words. Birthplace of UK street skateboarding and still creating and nurturing great skaters today. To destroy it would be, as overused as the phrase is today, cultural vandelism.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

If anything I'd like to see it expanded , it's already been boxed in a bit. A bit of ingenuity could improve it but sadly the £££ income from potential restaurants is too tempting for the Southbank. There's something faintly comical about all the 'Activist' stuff going on in inside with Yoko Ono's Meltdown.

There's been 3000+ comments on the planning proposal probably mostly objections from the skate community

 

[Crispy]

Having read up a bit, I don't see any chance for it, tbh
The commercial argument is so strong. If the SBC was going to get a larger amount of public funding to run their proposed new facilities, then I suspect some compromise could be reached. But they have to be entirely self-funding. And that means maximising revenue. And that means riverside bars and restaurants. It's inexorable.

At least the skaters are getting a replacement. 20 years ago, they'd have just been told to fuck off. :-/

 

[_pH_]

It's an incredible place. The buzz I got from the times I went there in the 80s and 90s, seeing the pics in the skate mags of all the famous Yanks that dropped in (and still do)... hard to put into words. Birthplace of UK street skateboarding and still creating and nurturing great skaters today. To destroy it would be, as overused as the phrase is today, cultural vandelism.

Too right. When I first started skating it was somewhere to go that was traffic-free and, above all, felt safe. It was a great place to go and watch and learn from older skaters, I remember one of them spending a patient half an hour giving me tips on how to ollie better. I was never a particularly good skater to be honest but there was never any piss taking, everyone just got on and it felt good to belong. I still see that today when I stop to watch if I'm passing, the younger skaters learning from the old hands.

 

[_pH_]

Having read up a bit, I don't see any chance for it, tbh
The commercial argument is so strong. If the SBC was going to get a larger amount of public funding to run their proposed new facilities, then I suspect some compromise could be reached. But they have to be entirely self-funding. And that means maximising revenue. And that means riverside bars and restaurants. It's inexorable.

Fair point, but it still has to get through planning so it's not a fait accompli as yet. Well I hope not.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Having read up a bit, I don't see any chance for it, tbh
The commercial argument is so strong. If the SBC was going to get a larger amount of public funding to run their proposed new facilities, then I suspect some compromise could be reached. But they have to be entirely self-funding. And that means maximising revenue. And that means riverside bars and restaurants. It's inexorable.

At least the skaters are getting a replacement. 20 years ago, they'd have just been told to fuck off. :-/

Just charge all the shops double, simples.

 

[scifisam]

Too right. When I first started skating it was somewhere to go that was traffic-free and, above all, felt safe. It was a great place to go and watch and learn from older skaters, I remember one of them spending a patient half an hour giving me tips on how to ollie better. I was never a particularly good skater to be honest but there was never any piss taking, everyone just got on and it felt good to belong. I still see that today when I stop to watch if I'm passing, the younger skaters learning from the old hands.

Yeah, I never see any piss-taking from anyone when someone falls off or whatever.

The "new" one just wouldn't be the same. This one's developed organically and is really owned by the people who make and use it. And tourists absolutely love it.

 

[Crispy]

Hopefully they can get the new area up and running well in advance, so the culture isn't wiped out.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

It's an interesting issue because the redevelopment is addressing the flaws in the original architecture. Part of the flaw in the design was the under-croft section which became a barren no go zone and then a skate area.

 

[scifisam]

Hopefully they can get the new area up and running well in advance, so the culture isn't wiped out.

That's very unlikely. And it'll be sanitised and organised beyond usefulness.

My daughter and her friends spent lots of time playing in the "woods" behind the city farm, creeping through the branches, making dens to hide in, having weird make-believe games that I didn't understand at all. When the farm noticed this, they trimmed the branches to give more space to play - so no creeping; put in a ready-made den - so no building; and put up signs about woods in fairy stories - so no making up your own. They also put up signs directing visitors to it, so grown-ups go there with their toddlers rather than kids playing on their own with parents nearish.

They meant well but they sucked all the fun out of it. That's what I imagine happening to the new skate park.

 

[g force]

It is a wonderful place simply because it grew completely organically. Even when it became smaller it was still a great venue a place that skaters all over the world came to skate there because it was iconic.

The problem, IMO, seems to be that the decision has already been made with regard to the redevelopment...not sure they can or indeed want to keep the area and develop around it.

 

[shygirl]

My friend had the following letter published in 'Building Design':

Skateboarders are no sideshow
My son (Louis Tingle 1986-2004) spent the best part of his life at the Southbank skateboarders’ undercroft (Debate May 17): perfecting his craft, making friends and participating in the most unique and diverse space in London.

Source: iStock
Wipeout: the Southbank Centre’s plans would involve moving the skate park.

A few weeks ago I was invited to the first meeting on the future of the skateboarders and it seemed to me to be a fait accompli. The discussion was about the details of the new skateboarding area being submitted for planning. How ironic that a “heritage space” is proposed to document the history of the skateboarders after killing them off! OK, they are to be moved around the corner to their “purpose-built” space — an anathema for skateboarders if ever there was one — and maybe they will move on, but to where in this increasingly privatised, theme-parked London? If the restaurants have to happen, why not think a bit more creatively? Build around the spectacle. Not in a zoo-like way, but perhaps diners could catch glimpses of feet through the air and fast-moving shadows. Make the skateboarders part of the experience of being at the South Bank, part of the continuation of history rather than the end of a story pinned on a wall.

Sarah Boyd
London SE15

 

[clicker]

Will be a real shame if it goes. Who doesn't stop and have a gander - appeals to all, young and old. Gets kids interested in discovering the SouthBank. Other kids get exercise in a relatively safe environment. It's free to all. Been there forever and doesnt disturb anyone. Enhances an otherwise dank spot. Allows creative flair on the walls. Photo op for tourists .So successful it polices itself with no interference from 'grown ups'. the kids have made something to be proud of out of nothing. Hhhmm maybe too many positives - it's bound to go.

 

[skyscraper101]

...infilling of ground floor undercrofts. Providing an increase of circa 9,200sqm arts/cultural/leisure use

Bollocks. They'll turn it into a wanky cafe or art space. The South Bank does not need any more "arts/culture/leisure" at the expense of this. There isn't even a specific proposal on what to do with it. It's just a generic 'turn it into an arts space' idea. Fuck that.

If the skate area isn't an amazing example of arts/culture/leisure already then what is? Is destroying history. You can't just build new spaces elsewhere. FFS, for all the reasons above, it'll remove the historical ties and suck the fun out of it.

Leave them kids alone.

 

[g force]

shygirl - you've nailed it with that. A lot of the initial work has been around trying to 'save' the current area and mobilise a campaign around that. Sadly, I don't think there is any chance of it being saved, the decision has been made.

Indeed, there have been some articles within the skate circles suggesting that it would be better use of time and energy to engage with the developers now over the new space - that the decision has been made and there's no way in hell they'll accommodate the current space within the new development of retail/restaurant units.

This seems to have been the most balanced so far: http://www.huckmagazine.com/features/farewell-southbank/

 

[TopCat]

I was skating there is the mid seventies and loved it. I think we should get all the old skool out with our boards and arthritis and have another go.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I visited London with my parents in about 1988 when I was about ten. I can't really remember what we did but I clearly remember seeing the skaters there. It's a real shame they want to get rid of it and I completely agree that the idea it needs to be replaced by something 'cultural' is complete nonsense - it's absolutely a cultural thing as much as the NT is.

 

[Manter]

I've never skated in my life, but I think it's important to keep things like that and the book market as they are what make the south bank what it is- its more than another stretch of manicured retail space, with identikit rows of the usual suspects, its an unexpected place, a mix of people and uses, you go there because you don't know what you'll see, who you'll meet. It'll be a real shame if it becomes yet another public art space that is completely manicured and controlled, wittering about inclusion but not actually including anyone outside their core ABC1 demographic.

 

[ska invita]

isnt the building listed? wont building shops there significantly change the original design?

 

[ska invita]

OK, they are to be moved around the corner to their “purpose-built” space — an anathema for skateboarders if ever there was one

not necessarily an anathema - purpose built skate parks give a better skate and would quite easily be preferable on those terms - i tend to agree with g forces link http://www.huckmagazine.com/features/farewell-southbank/
whats sad is that people walk up and down southbank and get to stop and watch - is the new proposed spot still visible from the thames path? if so then its not that bad really and might even be an improvement?

 

[g force]

Under the bridge, so presumably open on one side for people to stop and watch, or even a dedicated 'viewing' area...though who knows what that would turn into. Most skate parks are pretty vanilla...lips, a few humps, some rails/elevated area. That's about it.

Southbank and the ledges, the slope, the flat ground. The thrust of the Huck piece is really not "give up" but more "put energy into making the replacement spot as good as it can be". Lets face it a loose group (albeit one that is increasingly organised around this cause) of people versus a developer and local council will only go one way.

They talk about cultural diversity but only on their specific, and often quite narrow terms.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

I visited London with my parents in about 1988 when I was about ten. I can't really remember what we did but I clearly remember seeing the skaters there. It's a real shame they want to get rid of it and I completely agree that the idea it needs to be replaced by something 'cultural' is complete nonsense - it's absolutely a cultural thing as much as the NT is.

It's not even going to be a 'cultural' space, it will be MORE riverfront retail and coffee shops, all of the proposed cultural investment is around the back of the building on Upper Ground.