scissor paper stone 50 BNP v. 200 UAF who wins?

[durruti02]

on the other thread the UAF had a victory in blackpool.. they pulled 200 !!!!! anti BNPs WOW!! and the BNP only got 50 !!!! hey that must mean that UAF are bigger than BNP!!! in fact 4X bigger!! BRILLIANT!!!!




er except when they stand .. in west yorkshire or lancs or essex .. somehow the BNP get 100s of times more votes ..

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE WHEN UAF GET MORE ON DEMOS!!!!!

i am SOOO confused ... maybe just maybe, the demos are not important??? but where would we sell our papers???

 

[mk12]

you're as bad as the fascists with your cynical attitude.

 

[audiotech]

I notice that you omitted to mention that the BNP are sadly doing better than Hackney Independent too (in comparison to the BNP's electoral victories in some areas of London).

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I notice that you omitted to mention that the BNP are sadly doing better than Hackney Independent too (in comparison to the BNP's electoral victories in some areas of London).

The point being that Hackney Independent doesn't see any point in picketing BNP conferences in Blackpool

 

[JohnC]

@durruti02. Perhaps the best thing to do is to ignore the fascists completely, huh? Oh, and nobody sold any papers to anyone on Saturday. The whole point of Saturday was to show that there is opposition to the BNP and that worked. We spoke to a lot of people, dished out a lot of leaflets and got a decent response wherever we went. As far as it went, that's that job done. The next stage is to get some more formal - and local - organised opposition, and that's in the process of happening. As far as UAF is concerned, the demonstration was successful if only because it showed people that there was opposition to the BNP out there and that they would not be isolated. What's your problem with that?

 

[joevsimp]

er except when they stand .. in west yorkshire or lancs or essex .. somehow the BNP get 100s of times more votes ..

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE WHEN UAF GET MORE ON DEMOS!!!!!

i am SOOO confused ... maybe just maybe, the demos are not important??? but where would we sell our papers???

because you average white workin class person who feels let down sold out and betrayed by labour cant be bovvered to go on a demo for something they dont really totally agree with but are willing to vote for it to get back at labour

 

[The Black Hand]

because you average white workin class person who feels let down sold out and betrayed by labour cant be bovvered to go on a demo for something they dont really totally agree with but are willing to vote for it to get back at labour

But if its a simple protest vote it doesn't matter then by this logic - cos it will die away when the Tories get in...

 

[The Black Hand]

The point being that Hackney Independent doesn't see any point in picketing BNP conferences in Blackpool

But that's one group, a long long way away, who don't do demos anywhere else anyway (and I lurv duruti), so it doesn't matter...?

 

[joevsimp]

But if its a simple protest vote it doesn't matter then by this logic - cos it will die away when the Tories get in...

if there's a serious change in the labour party then yes

and how is not serious when the only reason that the bnp dont controll Bark n Dag council and have more than one or two in redbrige and havering is cos they dont have enough actual members to put up a full slate

they stood 13 in BnD and won 11, Respec stood a full slate in TH and got the same number of councillers

apathy sort of saves the day

 

[The Black Hand]

if there's a serious change in the labour party then yes

and how is not serious when the only reason that the bnp dont controll Bark n Dag council and have more than one or two in redbrige and havering is cos they dont have enough actual members to put up a full slate

they stood 13 in BnD and won 11, Respec stood a full slate in TH and got the same number of councillers

apathy sort of saves the day

Yes, but there are 20K council seats...

 

[joevsimp]

Yes, but there are 20K council seats...

and the bnp won a massive chunk the ones they stood in


speaking of the uaf, it sort of annoys me while i'm down here at uni, there is a thriving UAF student society but virtually no fashhere in brighton, but the whole situation in west essex/east london is so dire that at a by-election in Rainham in 2004, the only anti fash anything that i saw was a poster i'd made and printed myself, which was, within five minutes personally ripped down by griffin himself.

 

[lostexpectation]

does the uaf stand for election? or put up candiates in other forms directly aginast bnps etc?

 

[joevsimp]

does the uaf stand for election? or put up candiates in other forms directly aginast bnps etc?

no,they usually campaign for people to vote labour* in order to keep the bnp out

*they might back other parties sometimes if theyre more likely to win but that hasn't really come up mutch in my area

 

[JHE]

does the uaf stand for election? or put up candiates in other forms directly aginast bnps etc?

No, of course not. They call for a vote for any party that can beat the BNP - usually, but not always, Labour.

The Social Workers hope that al-Respeq will develop into a successful electoral alternative.

 

[lostexpectation]

no,they usually campaign for people to vote labour* in order to keep the bnp out

*they might back other parties sometimes if theyre more likely to win but that hasn't really come up mutch in my area

ah I see where they are going wrong

 

[The Black Hand]

and the bnp won a massive chunk the ones they stood in


speaking of the uaf, it sort of annoys me while i'm down here at uni, there is a thriving UAF student society but virtually no fashhere in brighton, but the whole situation in west essex/east london is so dire that at a by-election in Rainham in 2004, the only anti fash anything that i saw was a poster i'd made and printed myself, which was, within five minutes personally ripped down by griffin himself.

They have 50 seats - its irrelevant really. At this rate they won't get into power in your lifetime... I am just saying proportion... Chasing fash is defensive unless you can mobilise beyond the little hit squad, in some sort of popular front that mobilises those affected by racism... Is our politics self and class liberation, or is it some sort of voluntary service which prioritises 'our' unique pov?

 

[joevsimp]

i agree that they wont get anywhere near government, but there is a very real danger that they will gain a majority on barking council and/or one of their northen strongholds and build up national momentum and gain seats in parliament, building more of a base

people are starting to treat them like any other party, if the lib dems can go from 10% to 40% in brent east, what is there to stop the BNP doing the same in Barking or Keighly?



jeez, 20 to one, bloody nazis making me stay up half the night moanin bout them

 

[JohnC]

'Yes, but there are 20K council seats...'

'and the bnp won a massive chunk the ones they stood in'

I don't think an additional 32 seats on top of the 20-odd they already had qualifies as winning a massive chunk of anything. It's worth remembering that while the BNP won 12 seats on election night in Barking and Dagenham, Respect was busy winning 11 or 12 over in Tower Hamlets. While we're right to worry about the BNP, we should also be careful to keep them in perspective.

 

[mutley]

also they are not on an inexorable upward trend, in a Walsall by-election last week, their vote went down loads in absolute terms, and quite a chunk as a fraction. This in one of the areas where they have the best profile.

joevsimp I understand ur frustration at the brighton/essex thing, but don't see the student group as the problem, see it as a resource - what can the students do to help further afield?

 

[joevsimp]

short of bussing them in to key areas i'm not ssure, the bnp are critisied for that ofetn enough

 

[audiotech]

The point being that Hackney Independent doesn't see any point in picketing BNP conferences in Blackpool

Ahh, but what if was held in Hackney?

 

[The Black Hand]

Ahh, but what if was held in Hackney?

Now that would be funny....

 

[JoePolitix]

I notice that you omitted to mention that the BNP are sadly doing better than Hackney Independent

But they're no way near as successful as the mk12 lead unreconstructed Marxists. If the BNP so much as look at them funny they're slaughtered like mangy dogs.

 

[mk12]

I have no idea why you're obsessed with me. But it is amusing. Shouldn't you be writing an article for Workers Hammer or something?

 

[JoePolitix]

I have no idea why you're obsessed with me.

I think its the sheer force of your arguments, particularly the way you brilliantly expose the various forces of revisionism, centrism and other deviationist trends in the workers movement.

I left the Sparts to dedicate myself full time to the purer ideology of Marxist-Mk12ist thought

 

[mk12]

It costs £30 to join. I'll PM you the details.

 

[JimPage]

'Yes, but there are 20K council seats...'

'and the bnp won a massive chunk the ones they stood in'

I don't think an additional 32 seats on top of the 20-odd they already had qualifies as winning a massive chunk of anything. It's worth remembering that while the BNP won 12 seats on election night in Barking and Dagenham, Respect was busy winning 11 or 12 over in Tower Hamlets. While we're right to worry about the BNP, we should also be careful to keep them in perspective.

But from a starting point in 2000 where they could only muster 13 candidates nationwide they have come a long way- their memebrship is on the up- but more importntly so is their branch network

Searchlight reported that a swing to the BNP of just 2.7% would have brought them another 25 wards- and that is the sort of swing they have generally been receiving in by elections recently- in wards they have stood in before

As an aside, it seems that so feared are Lancaster BNP of Lancaster UAF- they are standing in another by election in town

 

[JimPage]

as to the numbers on the demo i wasnt there so cant comment- but SWP/UAF have a historical habit of downplaying fash numbers and building up their own

its the same every time. the bnp election result in always poor. they are always outnumbered- always humilated. they are always on the run. to recognise the bnp are doing well at the polls and are growing nationwide is regarded as some sort of weakness- but nothing is gained in conning yourself that, in the words of the prophet weyman bennet from 1999 on the BNP- "the war has been won and it`s us that won it"

 

[durruti02]

you're as bad as the fascists with your cynical attitude.

sorry mk .. i'm .. well just you know sort of cynical of swp fronts .. not sure why ..

i just always get this feeling they stop peopleoing real activity and get them at irrelevent events to engender group mentality.to try to get recruits who will last for ooooh at least a year but they'll get some subs off of them for
that period and they can always say " 200 PAPERS SOLD ON DEMO .. 15 PEOPLE JOINED AT A MEETING IN MANCHESTER THIS WEEK" ETC ETC ..


to those who are not aware .. they have had the very same column in SW since the seventies .. they just swop the place names around!

 

[durruti02]

I notice that you omitted to mention that the BNP are sadly doing better than Hackney Independent too (in comparison to the BNP's electoral victories in some areas of London).

sorry???? you are surpassing yourself here .. BNP have never stood against HI so there is no direct comparison ..

what is true is that we and IWCA in Islington stand candidates in an arch of 4 wards .. haggerston/hoxton/bunhill/clerkenwell .. which the fasc used to regard as their own ... it is inconceivable if we both were not active in these wards that they or another fasc variant , would be active in these wards ..

this is the way you defeat the BNP .. not just by exposing them locally but far more important, providing a real opposition to new labour