RIP Stuart Hall

[purves grundy]

I won't sully the thread by saying which Stuart Hall.

A great mind. Who's left of the New Left?

 

[butchersapron]

Was just coming here to post this. Whatever you thought of his later trajectory he was always interesting - and the stuff he did in the late 60s to late 70s on culture formation and media stuff still hasn't been taken on board by much of the left - preferring instead to stick to the one-way media tells people what to think and then they do model.

 

[moon]

Oh no... RIP Stuart Hall
I went to his Digital Diaspora event at the ICA in the mid 90's, was my first introduction to the internet.

 

[ska invita]

Was just coming here to post this. Whatever you thought of his later trajectory he was always interesting - and the stuff he did in the late 60s to late 70s on culture formation and media stuff still hasn't been taken on board by much of the left - preferring instead to stick to the one-way media tells people what to think and then they do model.

what was the later trajectory?

 

[butchersapron]

what was the later trajectory?

Labour insider, the new times euro-communist group he was associated with later being key to new labour (Hall belatedly turning against blairite flash). Argument essentially being that changes capital was trying to impose politically, culturally and economicially - 'new times' - meant the left had to change in order to meet the new popular bloc these changes had constructed. Nothing wrong that argument in itself (even if it's the wrong way round and often is crude question begging). The problem was the changes that Hall and others argued for became kinnock-->john smithism. Less collectivism, less class, more flexibility (i.e attacks on working conditions or entrepeneurism in exchange for an expanded consumerism) etc. Hall wasn't politically sussed enough to know what his ideas would be translated into by politicians. It was all a lot more complicated than that in all honesty, but that's a brief summary of where it went. i expect we'll have some fuller talk about new times and 'authoritarian populism' (that was the new configuration - or thatcherism - that the left had to move beyond its traditions/shibboleths/etc to challenge) later on the thread.

 

[articul8]

He became very critical of Blair/Brown/"blue/one nation Labour trajectory - and remained a critic of neoliberalism, but didn't write off the historical significance of the Labour party. Didn't always like what people did with Cultural Studies - but a really inspiring example of critical intelligence in action:
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/straight-outta-kilburn-a-manifesto-to-challenge-neoliberalism/

 

[danny la rouge]

RIP Stuart Hall. He was an interesting writer in his early days, and at the time I first read him, introduced me to Gramsci (I wasn't an anarchist then).

 

[ska invita]

Labour insider, the new times euro-communist group he was associated with later being key to new labour (Hall belatedly turning against blairite flash). Argument essentially being that changes capital was trying to impose politically, culturally and economicially - 'new times' - meant the left had to change in order to meet the new popular bloc these changes had constructed. Nothing wrong that argument in itself (even if it's the wrong way round and often is crude question begging). The problem was the changes that Hall and others argued for became kinnock-->john smithism. Less collectivism, less class, more flexibility (i.e attacks on working conditions or entrepeneurism in exchange for an expanded consumerism) etc. Hall wasn't politically sussed enough to know what his ideas would be translated into by politicians. It was all a lot more complicated than that in all honesty, but that's a brief summary of where it went. i expect we'll have some fuller talk about new times and 'authoritarian populism' (that was the new configuration - or thatcherism - that the left had to move beyond its traditions/shibboleths/etc to challenge) later on the thread.

thanks for that. He didnt go as far as signing up to Giddens's Third Wayism did he?

Came across Stuart Hall in cultural studies but never read anything first hand, but clearly a serious and influential figure. RIP

 

[Idris2002]

Here he speaks on Obama:

 

[Idris2002]

thanks for that. He didnt go as far as signing up to Giddens's Third Wayism did he?

Came across Stuart Hall in cultural studies but never read anything first hand, but clearly a serious and influential figure. RIP

I remember a piece he did on New Labour on the eve of the 1997 election which said bluntly, look, this project of Blair's breaks decisively and completely with any sort of social-democratic agenda, so don't be fooled.

 

[butchersapron]

He became very critical of Blair/Brown/"blue/one nation Labour trajectory - and remained a critic of neoliberalism, but didn't write off the historical significance of the Labour party. Didn't always like what people did with Cultural Studies - but a really inspiring example of critical intelligence in action:
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/straight-outta-kilburn-a-manifesto-to-challenge-neoliberalism/

4/5 of the people in that room went to oxbridge. Let us talk about culture.

 

[butchersapron]

thanks for that. He didnt go as far as signing up to Giddens's Third Wayism did he?

Came across Stuart Hall in cultural studies but never read anything first hand, but clearly a serious and influential figure. RIP

Well, Giddens didn't either really. But Hall was heading in that direction then took a personal dislike to Blair - after he had adopted almost all the key points of the New Times Manifesto. I can't seem to find a copy of that on-line btw

 

[ska invita]

Well, Giddens didn't either really.

How do you mean - I thought Giddens literally wrote The Book on the Third Way, and wasnt he on hand advising in the early years? I did look through a copy of his book at one point, but I think Ive tried to blank out everything about that time.
I wont derail any further....

 

[butchersapron]

How do you mean - I thought Giddens literally wrote The Book on the Third Way, and wasnt he on hand advising in the early years? I did look through a copy of his book at one point, but I think Ive tried to blank out everything about that time.
I wont derail any further....

Blair simply used the term - with Giddens agreement - none of the underlying ideas were seriously taken on board or played any real role in new labour thinking. It was simply used as a rhetorical trick to distance the party from old labour and thatcherism in the media and then in the public mind. (An interesting idea given Halls idea on how the media and the public interact).

 

[ska invita]

Blair simply used the term - with Giddens agreement - nine of the underlying ideas were taken on board or played any real role in new labour thinking. It was simply used as a rhetorical trick to distance the party from old labour and thatcherism in the media and then in the public mind. (An interesting idea given Halls idea on how the media and the public interact).

Id like to talk a bit more about it, but I dont want to sully his memory with talk of Blairite privatisation so soon in the thread

 

[butchersapron]

Guardian obit.

 

[butchersapron]

What i took from Stuart Hall was a toolbox - or some tools for my toolbox - that could be used regardless of where he went or how he chose to use them. He wasn't one of those sorts who you had to be either with 100% or reject 100%. He wasn't politician enough for that.

 

[articul8]

4/5 of the people in that room went to oxbridge. Let us talk about culture.

didn't look at it like that - but what do you make of what was said?

 

[butchersapron]

didn't look at it like that - but what do you make of what was said?

I'm not reading that. It's too short.

Here's where Hall coins the term thatcherism and where some of the ideas about the construction of a new popular bloc on authoritian populist lines is outlined quite well. (Pdf)

The great moving right show.

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

Stuart Hall always reminds me of uni as he seemed to be mentioned in almost all my theory modules. Cultural hegemony. Definitely an influence on the way I think about society.

 

[butchersapron]

Stuart Hall always reminds me of uni as he seemed to be mentioned in almost all my theory modules. Cultural hegemony. Definitely an influence on the way I think about society.

And vice-versa.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's a load of his stuff.

 

[articul8]

I'm not reading that. It's too short.

short but nevertheless interesting (I thought).

Gramsci and Us is still very relevant if you have a link to that?

 

[butchersapron]

In the link above.

 

[articul8]

Here's a load of his stuff.

fantastic work, ta

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not reading that. It's too short.

Here's where Hall coins the term thatcherism and where some of the ideas about the construction of a new popular bloc on authoritian populist lines is outlined quite well. (Pdf)

The great moving right show.

I was just coming to post that.

 

[trashpony]

He was a brilliant and lovely man. RIP

 

[revol68]

Here's a load of his stuff.

Butchers what's his best text on how people receive and interact with culture, the incompleteness of ideology? Thinking as an alternative to ideas of "spectacle" and how it suggests too much of all dominating uni directional approach, erasing peoples agency etc Also the whole Dialectic of Enlightenment cultural industry shit.

 

[Kaka Tim]

RIP - One of Britain's few great post war intellectuals.

 

[butchersapron]

Butchers what's his best text on how people receive and interact with culture, the incompleteness of ideology? Been thinking about the "spectacle" and how it suggests too much of all dominating uni directional approach, erasing peoples agency etc Also the whole Dialectic of Enlightenment cultural industry shit.

I really can't recalloff the top my head - i'll need to refamiliarise myself. I do know that it would be expressed in a very different way than Debord! Most likely with horrible 70s sociologist models very prominent. Long time since i read his best stuff.