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Pubs we've lost 2014-2015: The Grosvenor, Stockwell and the Canterbury Arms, Brixton

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Mr Retro said:
That's fucking brilliant! Will it reopen now as it was?
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Nope -the leaseholder sold the remaining years on the lease back to Golfrate. They won't want to run a pub so it will now sit empty until some kind of planning goes through. The licence will also have reverted to Golfrate so they will be able to amend it to a regular pub use with regular hours making it easier to argue that regular pub use will not be a nuisance to neighbours.

Crispy - would the big room be any use as a temporary site for Makerspace or would that be too noisy?
 
Rushy said:
They won't want to run a pub so it will now sit empty until some kind of planning goes through. ?
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I'm not sure why you're so confident given that they already own at least one working pub in the area. Surely there's a possibility that may change if a financially agreeable proposal comes their way (given the rather emphatic nature of Lambeth's refusal)?
 
editor said:
I'm not sure why you're so confident given that they already own at least one working pub in the area. Surely there's a possibility that may change if a financially agreeable proposal comes their way (given the rather emphatic nature of Lambeth's refusal)?
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I doubt they see the recent refusal as anything more than a short term obstacle so probably won't be looking to get a new pub tenant in until they have planning and have refurbed the building. A short term tenant will probably be more hassle that it is worth to them.

I'm not sure which one is operating but I guess it is not them operating it? I guess it still has a long term leaseholder in it and is not part of a development scheme?
 
editor said:
They almost always win in the end, but I am slightly heartened by the contents of Lambeth's planning refusal.
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Point number 1 is easy to get around - advertise it at the top end of the going rate, make it look totally bad value for money - no-one will want it.

The developers will have a row of suited booted men when it comes to the appeal who will have an answer for everything.
 
boohoo said:
Point number 1 is easy to get around - advertise it at the top end of the going rate, make it look totally bad value for money - no-one will want it.

The developers will have a row of suited booted men when it comes to the appeal who will have an answer for everything.
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I think the argument for 1 is more likely to be that pubs don't generally have the owners or staff living on top any more. The landlord didn't live there I don't think and someone mentioned that the rooms were let out anyway.
 
Rushy said:
I think the argument for 1 is more likely to be that pubs don't generally have the owners or staff living on top any more. The landlord didn't live there I don't think and someone mentioned that the rooms were let out anyway.
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He did live there, as did some of his staff.
 
Rushy said:
Crispy - would the big room be any use as a temporary site for Makerspace or would that be too noisy?
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Certainly not any more so than live music. We're negotiating for a permanent space at the moment though, so hopefully won't have to bother. Also, I very much doubt golfrate would be up for it.
 
Crispy said:
Certainly not any more so than live music. We're negotiating for a permanent space at the moment though, so hopefully won't have to bother. Also, I very much doubt golfrate would be up for it.
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They haven't exactly got a reputation as being the most community minded of developers.
 
Crispy said:
Certainly not any more so than live music. We're negotiating for a permanent space at the moment though, so hopefully won't have to bother. Also, I very much doubt golfrate would be up for it.
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Good luck. I look forward to hearing more!
 
Wasn't the pub inevitably going to shut down anyway when the luxury flats opposite are built and the residents starting moaning? Or is that another pub?
 
I phoned up Golfrate today because I'm still looking for a venue for the NYE party we've held at the Grosvenor for the last three years - any suggestions very welcome! - and the guy there told me that they would be putting in a new application to Lambeth. I asked when he thought the pub would reopen, and he said they weren't planning to reopen as a pub - that the building would be "put to retail". I think that's the phrase he used. I assume he means sold to another developer.

So if you have any suggestions for venues for our NYE party, please say!
 
clandestino said:
I phoned up Golfrate today because I'm still looking for a venue for the NYE party we've held at the Grosvenor for the last three years - any suggestions very welcome! - and the guy there told me that they would be putting in a new application to Lambeth. I asked when he thought the pub would reopen, and he said they weren't planning to reopen as a pub - that the building would be "put to retail". I think that's the phrase he used. I assume he means sold to another developer.

So if you have any suggestions for venues for our NYE party, please say!
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What about that Brixton East place?
 
Rushy said:
The "Agent of Change" principle sounds broadly sensible - though quite difficult to prove in practice, for instance, e.g. if a sound system were beefed up / respositioned / turned up.
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Yes I think it sounds sensible too. It'll be interesting to see how it works out in Melbourne.
 
clandestino said:
I phoned up Golfrate today because I'm still looking for a venue for the NYE party we've held at the Grosvenor for the last three years - any suggestions very welcome! - and the guy there told me that they would be putting in a new application to Lambeth. I asked when he thought the pub would reopen, and he said they weren't planning to reopen as a pub - that the building would be "put to retail". I think that's the phrase he used. I assume he means sold to another developer.

So if you have any suggestions for venues for our NYE party, please say!
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This was posted on B Buzz by a reader on the 19th Aug:
Golfrate have already sent a surveyor in to measure the Grosvenor ground floor for “retail”.

If they get planning permission for the flats it’ll be a Tesco Metro in no time.
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Way over a 1,000 people have looked at the Grosvenor story on B Buzz in the last four hours.

With that level of interest you'd really think there'd be a way to save the pub - except this is Golfrate we're dealing with and they're only interested in lining their own pockets.

Elderly publican forced to squat in his own home
Property developers' ‘ruthless’ rent rise forces pub landlord to take early retirement
Lewisham's only gay pub Two8Six closed down by Mendoza and Golfrate property companies
Greater powers are desperately needed to stop a "ruthless" developer letting several of Merton’s sites go to ruin, it was argued in Parliament this week.

And:
Asif Aziz, the property magnate who owns the Trocadero, is being sued for $20m over claims that he defrauded a Lebanese businessman once alleged to be involved with the trade in African "blood diamonds".

Aziz is accused of illegally ramping the price of Golfrate Africa and Ovlas Trading, two Angolan food manufacturing businesses he sold in 2005, just before he bought the Trocadero, a vast building on London's Piccadilly Circus that houses shops, restaurants, a cinema and Funland, an indoor fairground.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/.../Trocadero-owner-sued-for-20m-over-fraud.html
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The Wikipedia page of Gofrate owner Asif Aziz seems to paint a very different picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asif_Aziz
 
So what would the upstairs be used for if the pub was retained? I assume it would have to be commercially advantageous for the owners to consider it?

[EDIT] or was it always going to remain a pub downstairs?
 
editor said:
I'm not sure why you're so confident given that they already own at least one working pub in the area. Surely there's a possibility that may change if a financially agreeable proposal comes their way (given the rather emphatic nature of Lambeth's refusal)?
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just wondered whether this might be of any use to interested parties?...The Ivy House in Nunhead was the first pub to be listed as a community asset, and a listing as such means that the community gets first shout at making an offer to own the asset.

http://www.ivyhousenunhead.com

a possibility for The Grosvenor? I guess it could be too late.
 
mikerobe said:
just wondered whether this might be of any use to interested parties?...The Ivy House in Nunhead was the first pub to be listed as a community asset, and a listing as such means that the community gets first shout at making an offer to own the asset.

http://www.ivyhousenunhead.com

a possibility for The Grosvenor? I guess it could be too late.
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With the landlord already gone, it's far too late, I fear.
 
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