Olympics 'dominated by privately educated'

[weltweit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19109724

Too many of Britain's top sportsmen and women were educated privately, the country's Olympic chief has said.

Lord Moynihan said it was wholly unacceptable that more than 50% of medallists at the Beijing Olympics came from independent schools.

He described it as one of the "worst statistics in British sport".

I know butcherapron, you posted about this in another thread but as i just found an article about it I thought I would make it a thread on its own.

One of the things I wonder, is if the British experience is mirrored in other countries.

 

[Lo Siento.]

I'd say a pretty sizeable percentage of the sports being played at least imply or require substantial financial backing...

 

[mrs quoad]

One of the things I wonder, is if the British experience is mirrored in other countries.

Direct comparison might be difficult.

IMU, going by Artichoke, 'private schools' on the continent very often mean something different. Like, in France, she claims they're largely poor quality (educationally), and mostly for deranged fringe groups who are intent on (e.g.) securing robust Catholic indoctrination for the fruit of their loins.

She claimed something a bit similar wrt Dutchland (where she grew up) and Germany (next door) but I can't remember on precisely what grounds.

So, like, going to a 'private school' in France might mark you out as a bit of a social / political fringe, whose parents have some money (but not necessarily much) and who're willing to sacrifice virtually every sensible intellectual and sporting element of your education in order to get you confessionals twice a week.

 

[mrs quoad]

I'd say a pretty sizeable percentage of the sports being played at least imply or require substantial financial backing...

Like needing a horse, a rowing boat, a sailing boat, or a shotgun and several acres to shoot shit on (and IIRC the ability to take 2yrs learning shooting with a sheikh in Qatar ).

 

[Lo Siento.]

Like needing a horse, a rowing boat, a sailing boat, or a shotgun and several acres to shoot shit on (and IIRC the ability to take 2yrs learning shooting with a sheikh in Qatar ).

Exactly. Low entry cost would be what... track and field, cycling and swimming

 

[The Boy]

Pro bikes aren't cheap. So unless you have someone to buy one for you...

 

[Pickman's model]

Pro bikes aren't cheap. So unless you have someone to buy one for you...

or nick one

 

[souljacker]

It might have helped if the tories (of which Lord Colin Berkely Moynihan, 4th Baron Moyniham, is one) hadn't sold off 10,000 school sports fields the last time they ran the country.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Pro bikes aren't cheap. So unless you have someone to buy one for you...

Yeah, I was thinking low entry cost, but not sure how often cycling to the shops turns into road racing tbh

 

[The Boy]

Yeah, I was thinking low entry cost, but not sure how often cycling to the shops turns into road racing tbh

I suppose there's no reason a young cyclist can't start out on the cheap. Talent will always show even if you don't have the latest carbon framed fancy steed.

 

[girasol]

Richer countries tend to do better in the olympics, therefore... I am surprised people are surprised about this, funding for sports in schools is being cut even further

In Brazil, for example, apart from football, most people in high level competition come from more privileged backgrounds.

 

[peterkro]

I saw a video some time ago of a race they organised in Kenya (land of Froome) to encourage local talent,there were guys going like the clappers on three speed sit up and begs complete with baskets.If they ever get their hands on decent bikes and trainers the world of cycling will change.

 

[mrs quoad]

I suppose there's no reason a young cyclist can't start out on the cheap. Talent will always show even if you don't have the latest carbon framed fancy steed.

Still, an entry level, slightly respectable road bike would set someone back how much? £4-500, bare minimum, if they're going to have the slightest chance of being talent spotted for greater things?

They were pricing gb track bikes at £20k yesterday, fwiw.

 

[belboid]

Richer countries tend to do better in the olympics, therefore... I am surprised people are surprised about this, funding for sports in schools is being cut even further

In Brazil, for example, apart from football, most people in high level competition come from more privileged backgrounds.

IN some sports - okay, maybe just hockey - the rules were changed explicitly to benefit the richer countries. India (and to a lesser extent Pakistan) dominated Hockey for thirty odd years when it was played on grass. Then they changed it to artifical turf - which the Indians and Pakistanis cant afford - so only the westerners won.

 

[biggus dickus]

One thing to take into consideration is that the sports that Britain wins medals in are usually 'posh' ones. It says more about those sports than the sports system as a whole

The reason that the British team does well in events like rowing and showjumping isn't necessarily related to the reason that they don't get medals in running and weightlifting. If Britain stopped winning the medals where you needed 1000s spent on you when you were 6 to compete it wouldn't mean that they would start winning medals in other events

This is an entirely anecdotal opinion from having known a lot of French people but they do seem to take sports that aren't football or rugby more seriously than the British, but that is another issue altogether....

I think they should make everyone take those deductive reasoning tests up to the level where they can do it with numbers if they want to be journalists

 

[mrs quoad]

I saw a video some time ago of a race they organised in Kenya (land of Froome) to encourage local talent,there were guys going like the clappers on three speed sit up and begs complete with baskets.If they ever get their hands on decent bikes and trainers the world of cycling will change.

I had a disagreement with a bloke during my fieldwork. He was saying that Olympians are the best of the best.

I was arguing that Olympians are the most successful of the small proportion of people who try a given sport.

And that - e.g. - rowing and cycling world record times might be very different (and very much lower) if the sports were universal access in any meaningful sense.

 

[The Boy]

Still, an entry level, slightly respectable road bike would set someone back how much? £4-500, bare minimum, if they're going to have the slightest chance of being talent spotted for greater things?

They were pricing gb track bikes at £20k yesterday, fwiw.

True.

The other thing to mention is access to facilities. Edinburgh only has an uncovered wooden velodrome which can't be used when it rains. So any budding track cyclists will probably be looking at regularly transporting their bike and kit to Glasgow or Manchester.

And that's before you include basic things like public schools being able to afford better sports facilities. In fact, there have been a couple of cases of public money being spent on sports facilities at public schools in Edinburgh on the grounds that they will be used by the local community outside school hours.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is an entirely anecdotal opinion from having known a lot of French people but they do seem to take sports that aren't football or rugby more seriously than the British, but that is another issue altogether....

 

[mrs quoad]

The other thing to mention is access to facilities. Edinburgh only has an uncovered wooden velodrome which can't be used when it rains. So any budding track cyclists will probably be looking at regularly transporting their bike and kit to Glasgow or Manchester.

Wouldn't track be quite a progression? Like, start out doing road and TT, move on to track after showing some flair?

I'm in Cambridge, hardly unknown for cycling. But our closest velodrome / track is (IIRC) Welwyn City Gardens. 1-1.5hrs away. IIRC.

 

[Pickman's model]

I had a disagreement with a bloke during my fieldwork. He was saying that Olympians are the best of the best.

I was arguing that Olympians are the most successful of the small proportion of people who try a given sport.

And that - e.g. - rowing and cycling world record times might be very different (and very much lower) if the sports were universal access in any meaningful sense.

if fucking ryan giggs is the best the gb has to offer we're doomed to decades of footballing failure

 

[The Boy]

Wouldn't track be quite a progression? Like, start out doing road and TT, move on to track after showing some flair?

I'm in Cambridge, hardly unknown for cycling. But our closest velodrome / track is (IIRC) Welwyn City Gardens. 1-1.5hrs away. IIRC.

I imagine so. Was just trying to take it a bit further and look at what happens after you have got kids interested in the sport and looking to move onto the next level. So you have the expensive kit, plus the costs associated with getting that kit to and from your training venue.

For example, if your nearest velodrome is an hour and half away then that probably means a car.

 

[Pickman's model]

I imagine so. Was just trying to take it a bit further and look at what happens after you have got kids interested in the sport and looking to move onto the next level. So you have the expensive kit, plus the costs associated with getting that kit to and from your training venue.

For example, if your nearest velodrome is an hour and half away then that probably means a car.

an hour and a half how? walking, which would be say 6 miles? if you can't fucking cycle 6 miles then you shouldn't be aiming for olympic glory.

 

[The Boy]

an hour and a half how? walking, which would be say 6 miles? if you can't fucking cycle 6 miles then you shouldn't be aiming for olympic glory.

i was assuming 1.5 hour drive.

 

[biggus dickus]

I had a disagreement with a bloke during my fieldwork. He was saying that Olympians are the best of the best.

I was arguing that Olympians are the most successful of the small proportion of people who try a given sport.

And that - e.g. - rowing and cycling world record times might be very different (and very much lower) if the sports were universal access in any meaningful sense.

But it would be an appalling idea to give access to road bikes and rowing to everyone! Olympic sports would be bigger/better/faster/stronger if they had universal access, but it would be a shocking waste of resources (including people) Imagine how much money it would cost to let everyone in England have a shot at rowing (and England is the world leader in rowing with rowing clubs everywhere and beautiful rivers everywhere) it's quite low down the list

It is always important to remember the one killer argument that the Olympics, like all sport is a load of bollocks based on running and throwing things about like fucking idiots. Noone will give a fuck about the Olympics in 6 weeks if they didn't get a medal

 

[butchersapron]

But it would be an appalling idea to give access to road bikes and rowing to everyone! Olympic sports would be bigger/better/faster/stronger if they had universal access, but it would be a shocking waste of resources (including people) Imagine how much money it would cost to let everyone in England have a shot at rowing (and England is the world leader in rowing with rowing clubs everywhere and beautiful rivers everywhere) it's quite low down the list

It is always important to remember the one killer argument that the Olympics, like all sport is a load of bollocks based on running and throwing things about like fucking idiots. Noone will give a fuck about the Olympics in 6 weeks if they didn't get a medal

Have you ever noticed what a horrible conservative you've become?

 

[mrs quoad]

But it would be an appalling idea to give access to road bikes and rowing to everyone!

Yeah. Wasn't arguing for universal access to road bikes and rowing

Just arguing that the Olympian 'best' is the 'best' of a very limited subgroup of people

 

[mattie]

Still, an entry level, slightly respectable road bike would set someone back how much? £4-500, bare minimum, if they're going to have the slightest chance of being talent spotted for greater things?

They were pricing gb track bikes at £20k yesterday, fwiw.

Cav started on a BMX at his local bike club.

I think the most important factor are clubs and societies, not kit.

In regards limited access to sports, most participation (although not al) tends to be 'grandfathered' in that you play what your parents or siblings play. Whether you stick with it enough to find out if you've any aptitude depends to great extent on how much you enjoy it - which is where clubs and other support networks come in.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19109724


I know butcherapron, you posted about this in another thread but as i just found an article about it I thought I would make it a thread on its own.

One of the things I wonder, is if the British experience is mirrored in other countries.

I suspect that it is less of the case in China or Cuba.

This is a good article about how the Olympics has always been elitist:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/the-olympic-ideal-isnt-so-ideal-after-all/article4415787/

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Didn't we have this discussion the other day and The Telegraph disputed it?

 

[mattie]

As an aside, our uni - which has extensive links to Sport England - keeps running taster days for the more 'esoteric' sports, and actively encourages athletes to up and change sports if they think they have greater natural aptitude or physiology for other sports. Sort of like Rebecca Romero, but before they win Olympic medals in their initial sport!

Of course, this rather implies you need to be 'in the system' first, but I admire the sentiment.