mate dropped right in it (ATOS appeal)

[Pingu]

am trying to find out more and suspect there may be more to this than I am currently being told but:

mate who has 1 lung, half a heart, various other bits and bobs going on was found fit by atos about 12 months ago. lodged an appeal but it still hasn't been heard.

last week on any form of benefits was last week so now has no income at all and had letter today from advocacy that was representing him that they can no longer continue as funding has been cut. their advice was to contact his MP

has partner who works 2 days a week as a care assistant (2x 12 hour shifts on minimum wage)

above is my current understanding of situation

is there any help he can get from either state bodies or voluntary orgs? lives in nW of England btw.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

That sounds just awful.

In a country with such high unemployment and more people losing jobs because of austerity cuts in business every day, what are the government seriously thinking the weak and vulnerable going to do?

 

[Pingu]

I will see him right as best I can so he wont starve etc but obviously situation needs to be sorted properly.

 

[cesare]

I will see him right as best I can so he wont starve etc but obviously situation needs to be sorted properly.

Could try posting this on the ATOS thread?

 

[Pingu]

thought of that but his situation is fairly specific to him and didn't want it to get lost in amongst all the other atos fuckups

and tbh this is about how I can get him help (his head is in no state to do this himself right now) rather than a general atos slagging

 

[Frankie Jack]

I'm not sure if he can go back to his doc and get signed sick again. If t's been at least 6 months since he was passed fit then as far as I know he can start the cycle again and hope for a better result next Atos assessment.

 

[RedDragon]

There's something more going on ...

Do you know what benefits he was on?

 

[equationgirl]

Contact the tribunal service (you or him) and ask when his case will likely be heard. The system is overwhelmed at the moment due to ATOS screwing up but 12 months sounds longer than usual on the ATOS thread (I post on it).

Look into benevolent funds - the armed forces has one, as do many professional institutions, transport workers, police etc - so he may be eligible for those depending on his circumstances. Also, if he has been a union member there may be avenues open to him for assistance there.

Best of luck.

 

[Pingu]

There's something more going on ...

Do you know what benefits he was on?

probably right hes not the most organised person in the world and has a bit of a temper so may have pissed someone off at some point.

however I have seen the letter from the advocacy and that bit is definitely true and I helped him file his original appeal so know the timing in that is right too. he has served but hasn't served in theatre so the likes of combat stress etc cant help as the psych side isn't down to any forces involvement. will look at union side though and see if that leads anywhwre.

end of the day though if his appeal date comes through next week he is going to be well fucked as he is in no fit state to represent himself and I don't know enough about the system to represent him.

 

[Bakunin]

I think you might well be right that there's more to this than what you've been told. I don't know what, but I'm inclined to think that there's more going on behind the scenes, as it were. If it were me then I'd try and find out, gently if you can, whether or not there's anything you don't already know.

 

[hattie]

if he's been in the forces he could contact SSAFA. our local branch is incredibly helpful with financial support, debt support and i believe they may be able to help with benefit issues too. worth a try.

 

[WouldBe]

I'm not sure if he can go back to his doc and get signed sick again. If t's been at least 6 months since he was passed fit then as far as I know he can start the cycle again and hope for a better result next Atos assessment.

^^^^This.

DWP shouldn't stop his ESA until the appeal (tribunal) has been held. Has he got his dates mixed up?

Contact the DWP to find out what is happening. Wether his appeal has been held.

Was it an appeal or a tribunal? With an appeal a DWP official just relooks at the claim. If they upheld this decision your mate would have been notified. You then have so long in whick to request a tribunal. Is this what has happened and the DWP letter has got lost?

 

[WouldBe]

if he's been in the forces he could contact SSAFA. our local branch is incredibly helpful with financial support, debt support and i believe they may be able to help with benefit issues too. worth a try.

Royal British legion also help financially and can give benefit advice.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Others here are far better informed than me to comment on how to deal with the ATOS angles of it, but in terms of the situation now -

what benefit was he getting (until it stopped)?

and why has it stopped? is it because DWP say his circumstances have changed, or because he came to the end of the (National Insurance) contributions based benefit period or what?

Most of the contributions based benefits have an income related equivalent that you can go on to as soon as the contriutions based period ends - this equates to income support.

If DWP say he's completely fit, then 24 hours at minimum wage per week is more than the income support level for a couple (£ 112.55 a week)

I also suspect (although may be worth further research) that if he's not getting any sick / disabled benefits, then she couldn't claim any sort of carer's allowance (not that the latter is very much at all) and i don't think she's working enough hours to claim working tax credits. (this may be worth exploring further, as I'm a bit fuzzy on tax credits.)

If he's considered sick / disabled, then there are 'premiums' that are added to the income support 'applicable amount' so they (and the claim would need to be in his name not hers, as she's working too many hours to claim IS) would get more.

I also may be stating what's already known here, but they should also claim housing benefit (if they are renting) and whatever the local council's equivalent of council tax benefit is - these are not 'all or nothing' benefits, and can be claimed where someone in the household is working. (a lot of people assume that it's an all or nothing thing and that you have to be "on benefits" to get HB)

while a household with an income higher than the income support level would not get their full rent / council tax, they can still get something. As things currently stand, there's no need to jump through the "available for and actively seeking work" hoops for housing benefit. (This may change with universal credit.)

best of luck

 

[Pingu]

sorry been traveling with little net access.

spoke to the tirbunals service this morning and his tribunal hearing for his appeal against ESA decision made by ATOS on 27 July 2012 is in 6 weeks time. when I asked why it had taken so long to come to appeal it looks like the advocacy had taken all his papers, records etc (now returned - big pile), files an appeal and then pretty much done fuck all else apart from the odd phone call every 3 months or so asking if an appeal date had been set. I pressed a bit more and said that it seems an unusually long time for someone to wait and that he had now had his benefits stopped due to the time that has elapsed. got the telephone equivalent of a Gaelic shrug in response

so it looks like I am going to have to represent him at the tribunal hearing if we cant get anyone else to do so.

what sort of stuff should I be aware off (will obviously google etc). have written letter to his doctor this morning asking for opinion etc on his medical conditions and doctors opinion on capability to work but any advice very very welcome

to answer some of the questions posed:

benefit was ESA
there was an IS based element as well but that stopped when hi moved in with partner as her earnings wiped out that element. had been on incapacity benefit prior to that for many years.

I still need to look into some aspects of the things he was actually claiming for (or could claim for) so I can understand the rules surrounding them. so my picture of the landscape will inevitably change as my understanding of his situation improves.

have also approached local branch welfare at the RBL and made some initial enquires with the other forces charities I am involved with. even if they cant help they should be able to make suggestions

 

[Pickman's model]

That sounds just awful.

In a country with such high unemployment and more people losing jobs because of austerity cuts in business every day, what are the government seriously thinking the weak and vulnerable going to do?

die

next

 

[purenarcotic]

You could look into whether your council offers local welfare provision. This is what has now replaced crisis loans. It's a one off payment that you don't need to pay back. Here in brum it is a 50 quid Asda card with a fiver extra per child.

Frankly it is a joke but I see no reason why he would not be entitled to it and you might as well get all you can. My advice would be to Google it or pm me your council and I will get the info for you.

One word of warning: if it says you can apply yourself DON'T. You will be refused because they're twats. Go via a charity or cab or whoever, it looks better.

 

[WouldBe]

spoke to the tirbunals service this morning and his tribunal hearing for his appeal against ESA decision made by ATOS on 27 July 2012 is in 6 weeks time.

DWP are supposed to pay ESA until the tribunals decision. Or have the twats put a time limit on it?

I would query that with the DWP. It might be that as the DWP haven't heard anything from the tribunals service that they assume you mate has dropped his appeal.

 

[SpookyFrank]

In a country with such high unemployment and more people losing jobs because of austerity cuts in business every day, what are the government seriously thinking the weak and vulnerable going to do?

Die. They expect people to curl up and die.

 

[Pingu]

it could be. tbh I am still piecing things together but my understanding is currently thus:

was on incapacity benefit and got transferred to ESA (initially plus IS but hen just contribution based)
had appointment with ATOS who said that despite having 1 lung, half a functioning heart, recovering from strokes plus mental health issues was fit for work
disputed ATOS thing on basis that has to take a fuckton of meds just to be able to go to the shops etc etc but still deemed fit for work
contribution based element now run out (29th August) so no further benefit entitlement due to partner working
appeal against dwp/atos decision set for 6 weeks time

now it looks like the advocacy org that were acting for him didn't submit any further information when they disputed the ATOS ruling, no doctors statements etc (am getting this from going through the pile of paperwork they have returned to him) so that's probably why that appeal failed. also appears to have been little action on theor part in preparing for this tribunal hearing (i.e. no medical statements or even statements taken from him about his health conditions)

my understanding could very wel change as result of understanding benefits system better/advice received/stuff uncovered.

he is actually prepared to work, and wants to, but tbh he is in no condition physically or mentally at the moment to do so. if he can find a job that allows him to be sitting down, start at middayish (morning meds mean he cant do anything for a couple of hours after he has taken them) and not be subjected to stress or have to do anything requiring psychical effort then he would probably take it. worked all his life up until a couple of years back

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

he is actually prepared to work, and wants to, but tbh he is in no condition physically or mentally at the moment to do so. if he can find a job that allows him to be sitting down, start at middayish (morning meds mean he cant do anything for a couple of hours after he has taken them) and not be subjected to stress or have to do anything requiring psychical effort then he would probably take it. worked all his life up until a couple of years back

has he thought of becoming a MP?

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

sorry missed the bit where you said he is prepared to work.

 

[Pingu]

ahh ok 29th July date wasn't making sense to me but now does

this was the date the advocacy sent letter saying they were no longer able to represent. so looks like DWP may have taken this as "no longer wishes to appeal" and ceased benefits from that date

eta

date should have been 29th July, not august

 

[friedaweed]

Where abouts in the NW mate?

 

[ViolentPanda]

sorry been traveling with little net access.

spoke to the tirbunals service this morning and his tribunal hearing for his appeal against ESA decision made by ATOS on 27 July 2012 is in 6 weeks time. when I asked why it had taken so long to come to appeal it looks like the advocacy had taken all his papers, records etc (now returned - big pile), files an appeal and then pretty much done fuck all else apart from the odd phone call every 3 months or so asking if an appeal date had been set. I pressed a bit more and said that it seems an unusually long time for someone to wait and that he had now had his benefits stopped due to the time that has elapsed. got the telephone equivalent of a Gaelic shrug in response

so it looks like I am going to have to represent him at the tribunal hearing if we cant get anyone else to do so.

what sort of stuff should I be aware off (will obviously google etc). have written letter to his doctor this morning asking for opinion etc on his medical conditions and doctors opinion on capability to work but any advice very very welcome

to answer some of the questions posed:

benefit was ESA
there was an IS based element as well but that stopped when hi moved in with partner as her earnings wiped out that element. had been on incapacity benefit prior to that for many years.

I still need to look into some aspects of the things he was actually claiming for (or could claim for) so I can understand the rules surrounding them. so my picture of the landscape will inevitably change as my understanding of his situation improves.

have also approached local branch welfare at the RBL and made some initial enquires with the other forces charities I am involved with. even if they cant help they should be able to make suggestions

One thing, mate. When writing to his GP and/or consultant(s) for him, you need to attach a pro forma signed by him saying something along the lines of "XXXXX XXXXX is authorised by me to act for me on my behalf in this matter", as they can cut up rough about giving any info to a third party, otherwise.

E2A:
When soliciting medical information from doctors, especially consultants, if possible solicit their opinion of the efgects of the health issue(s) on your mate, not just the diagnosis he's been given.

 

[Greebo]

ahh ok 29th July date wasn't making sense to me but now does

this was the date the advocacy sent letter saying they were no longer able to represent. so looks like DWP may have taken this as "no longer wishes to appeal" and ceased benefits from that date<snip>

John 11:35! (Jesus wept)

 

[Pingu]

One thing, mate. When writing to his GP and/or consultant(s) for him, you need to attach a pro forma signed by him saying something along the lines of "XXXXX XXXXX is authorised by me to act for me on my behalf in this matter", as they can cut up rough about giving any info to a third party, otherwise.

E2A:
When soliciting medical information from doctors, especially consultants, if possible solicit their opinion of the efgects of the health issue(s) on your mate, not just the diagnosis he's been given.

cheers. yeah did that. also know t focus on what he cant do as opposed to what he can do. e.g. unable to undertake xxxxx without consuming vast quantities of pharmaceuticals rather than can do xxxxx provided various drugs taken...

 

[cesare]

cheers. yeah did that. also know t focus on what he cant do as opposed to what he can do. e.g. unable to undertake xxxxx without assistance rather than can do limited xxxxx and then will need assistance

I've only been to one benefits tribunal, so I don't have much experience in this. But it was *far* less formal and contentious than (for example) an employment tribunal. The other side don't tend to turn up at all, they just rely on the findings of the tribunal. The tribunal consists of a legally qualified chair plus a medical expert. Submitting medical evidence in advance to support the appeal helps - and if the medical evidence can deal with the main reasons that the decision went against your friend in the first place, that's even more helpful.

They also especially liked a document that we submitted in advance, that basically took the assessment form with the scores awarded by ATOS and added an extra two columns. One with the score we thought it should have been/where we were disputing the ATOS score and the other with an explanation why and cross referencing with medical evidence. The medical expert had that document in front of him and took some of those scores and asked the claimant more about them. They thanked us for doing it and said that it made everything more structured and easy to refer to. That's just one tribunal though, but might be helpful.

There's just one waiting area rather than it being split into claimants and respondents (possibly because the other side never/rarely turn up). The support staff are geared up to being friendly and helpful, especially because they are dealing with people who are disabled and unwell.

They'll let a friend in for support so there isn't a need to formally go on record as a representative in order to go along and help.

 

[Pingu]

They also especially liked a document that we submitted in advance, that basically took the assessment form with the scores awarded by ATOS and added an extra two columns. One with the score we thought it should have been/where we were disputing the ATOS score and the other with an explanation why and cross referencing with medical evidence. The medical expert had that document in front of him and took some of those scores and asked the claimant more about them. They thanked us for doing it and said that it made everything more structured and easy to refer to. That's just one tribunal though, but might be helpful.

that's a good idea. my major fear is that the time we have wont be enough to gather the medical reports but we can give our own views and say why there is no supporting medical evidence if needs be or seek an adornment to allow us time to gather

 

[cesare]

that's a good idea. my major fear is that the time we have wont be enough to gather the medical reports but we can give our own views and say why there is no supporting medical evidence if needs be or seek an adornment to allow us time to gather

There's no medical evidence at all in the big file that the ex-representatives handed over? Edit: sorry, didn't read your post about that file properly, you don't think there is.

In addition to trying to get a medical consultant's opinion, he can get a copy of his patient notes from his GP quite quickly which might even be sufficient but would certainly give you grounds for an adjournment.