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Man In The High Castle (tv show)

DotCommunist

So many particulars. So many questions.
could be interesting It aired last night as a pilot on amazon prime, I'll post a link to direct stream as soon as I dig out a decent one
http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/amazons-new-series-the-man-in-the-high-castle-is-amazin-1679714503


one thing that does worry me is lots of fantasy/comic/sf IP is being made into pilots and series at the moment, largely thanks to hollywood succeses- but in the case of TV some people are doing it cheap and poorly- Constatine, the Flash, Arrow all very poor

but high hopes for this
 
That was my very first Dick novel when I was about 14 so it's a very very long time since I've read it but this does indeed look like it might be good. As for production values, Amazon's previous sci-fi effort Extant may have been a big stinking pile of poo plotwise but it was quite nice to look at.
 
That was my very first Dick novel when I was about 14 so it's a very very long time since I've read it but this does indeed look like it might be good. As for production values, Amazon's previous sci-fi effort Extant may have been a big stinking pile of poo plotwise but it was quite nice to look at.
This is the most fantastic book I have ever read. I even style myself, living on the 4th floor of a council block in Elephant & Castle as the hero of this book. These days rather than play out alternatives to WW2, I play out my bipolar illness mapping out an alternative WW3 across Europe and S. Africa. PhilipK Dick was a genius, married 5 times and possibly schitzophrenic. His books were 50 years ahead of his time. He kept an open house in California in the 60's and like most urbanites he was completely fucked on drugs and had a warped sense of anarchy. I t is no surprise most of his books have been made into films, ( Bladerunner and Minority Report being the most famous ). To truly understand his work a healthy dose of psychadelic drugs are needed. Like I said, 'The Man in the high Castle' is the best book I have ever read and I am glad it is being attempted as a Film. (I even gave my support worker a copy!). This alternative America is anarchist thought in the truly warped sense. Total legend geezer. :)
 
its quite telling that in 'three stigmata of palmer k eldritch' the initial version of the chew z drug was used by colonists to inhabit an entirely orthodox fantasy perfect barbie and ken world
 
one thing that does worry me is lots of fantasy/comic/sf IP is being made into pilots and series at the moment, largely thanks to hollywood succeses- but in the case of TV some people are doing it cheap and poorly- Constatine, the Flash, Arrow all very poor

I wasted 45 minutes watching the pilot episode of The Flash based on the recommendation of one D. Communist on these very boards :hmm:
 
blimey, that wasn't bad at all. A bit clunky in places, and cheesy in others, but a damned good start. I'll be watching
 
its a shame the peddler of fake americana has been left out of this, I thought his was one of the more interesting characters in the novel- but otherwise a good start

Times Square emblazoned with swastikas was proper dissonance moment
 
On a related note... I'm reading The House of Rumour by Jake Arnott at the moment - it's all about the 40's - 80's sci-fi scene and it gives a massive nod to Dick's Man in the High Castle. It really is very good and I reckon if you like Dick's stuff you'll get into this.
 
It was ok. I loved that book when I was young.

Weirdly, I'm an amazon member, I went to the site and searched for this and got no results....clicked DC's link and it took me straight there. I'm an idiot, obviously.
 
its quite telling that in 'three stigmata of palmer k eldritch' the initial version of the chew z drug was used by colonists to inhabit an entirely orthodox fantasy perfect barbie and ken world
If you'd signed up for a one-way ticket to Mars and had to spend the rest of your days in some corrugated, crumbling settler's shack beset by sandstorms and radioactive winds where even the hardiest vegs refused to grow because of the infertile martian soil however much you tried to make things work, and your only remaining joy would be to hold increasingly boring cocktail/bridge parties or get pissed on front of the TV trying to fend off cabin fever and avoid the intense urge to smash your husband or neighbours to death, then I guess getting jacked up into a shiny virtual reality flesh suit body becoming a fantasy barbie or ken doll doing everyday things in a on the surface 'perfect' computer game world wouldn't seem like such a bad idea compared to the intolerable, mindnumbing monotony of the rest of your life... Pure escapism.

The sinister thing about the Perky Pat virtual world was that you could never actually know for sure who the other person inhabiting the other virtual body were, so if you for instance had arranged for your neighbours wife to 'meet' up with you in the virtual world for a little bit of fooling around then for all you knew it could be the husband there in the other body instead, deciding to mess with your head... you could never really know... More than one person could inhabit the virtual body/mind at a time, too... Like you'd suddenly realise the prescence of another mind, trying to fend off an invader from entering your brain... Typical Philip K Dick paranoia, very effective.

(I don't really get all the enthusiasm for The Man In The High Castle, btw- it's the least interesting of his novels IMO, both Ubik and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch and even many of his pulpier novels pisses all over it, it hasn't got as many ideas and the one central plot idea isn't even developed that well and almost nothing happens... I miss the ingenious conceptual ideas and imaginative twists and turns of his other books. I guess it's got a certain mood and the idea- on paper- is sort of interesting, but the book in itself isn't that interesting and he could've done so much more with it. High Castle is my least favourite Dick book for those reasons. No offense and of course people's opinion/personal tastes differ. But I just don't think it's a very good book, compared to his other and better/more engaging novels.)

The series could be interesting though.
 
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(I don't really get all the enthusiasm for The Man In The High Castle, btw- it's the least interesting of his novels IMO, both Ubik and The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch and even many of his pulpier novels pisses all over it, it hasn't got as many ideas and the one central plot idea isn't even developed that well and almost nothing happens... I miss the ingenious conceptual ideas and imaginative twists and turns of his other books. I guess it's got a certain mood and the idea- on paper- is sort of interesting, but the book in itself isn't that interesting and he could've done so much more with it. High Castle is my least favourite Dick book for those reasons. No offense and of course people's opinion/personal tastes differ. But I just don't think it's a very good book, compared to his other and better/more engaging novels.)
Agree with this 100%. Book was shit and nothing happened. And the ending was garbage.
 
Agree with this 100%. Book was shit and nothing happened. And the ending was garbage.
Yeah... and unlike his other novels it's not really science fiction at all IMO, more of the fantastic/speculative fiction tradition- with an alternative history theme... Nothing science fiction-y happens in it, the blending of two alterative realities/parallel worlds is of course not strictly realism but it doesn't automatically make it science fiction either... IIRC 'High Castle' got marketed as a mainstream type novel and wasn't necessarily associated with/mentioned in the same breath as science fiction, just like Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five isn't thought of as science fiction (no comparision intended)
 
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Yeah... and unlike his other novels it's not really science fiction at all IMO, more of the fantastic/speculative fiction tradition- with an alternative history theme... Nothing science fiction-y happens in it, the blending of two alterative realities/parallel worlds is of course not strictly realism but it doesn't automatically make it science fiction either...
Yep, and if you want to read that sort of thing, I'd recommend Fatherland by Robert Harris. It's not a great book, but at least it's got a plot.

Slaughterhouse-22
Two of my favourite books in one ;) Could be amazing :D
 
When recommending Dick(fnar) to first-time readers, I always tell them not to start with High Castle... His other books were so groundbreaking, so full of mindboggling concepts and engaging narratives that if they thought they'd 'got' Dick from that one book and woved never to read him again, it'd be a pity because they would never get to know that brilliance... So I give them the best books first, then his short stories. (It has to be said though that some of the earliest pulp novels of his wot he just churned out in the early fifties to pay the rent are even worse than High Castle, but even paint-by-numbers pulpy Dick have its charms... HC just bored me.)

(BTW, i don't mean to offend the ones who loved HC or regard it as important in their lives, just to state my opinion that his other books are so much better i think it'd be a shame if people think it's the 'best' example of his brilliance... because it isn't.)
 
Two of my favourite books in one ;) Could be amazing :D
God, apologies I'm so tired today I'm messing up book titles... i like that typo though :D

(i edited it to the correct title now, sorry Fez :oops: )

Fatherland was a great intense pageturner about 2/3 in, then sort of lost it a little towards the ending but it was still a nice thriller... The film version with Rutger Hauer was sort of a disappointment as I really fancied him after Blade Runner and it was such a letdown that he wasn't as brilliant in it because I wanted him to be...)
 
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(Hope we haven't scared off people from the thread with our negativity btw- it's all my fault and I'm sorry... people have different opinions, is all...)

will have to check out the series anyway, it could be better than the novel (which would be a good thing)
 
I know, but it was funny wasn't it? ;)
It was ;)

And yeah, we've taken over this thread with our negativity. However, I'm still prepared to give the TV show a go. TV can't have no plot - viewers wouldn't stand for it.

Actually, has there been a plotless TV show yet? Plenty of films have no plot, and of course books. But TV?
 
Actually, has their been a plotless TV show yet? Plenty of films have no plot, and of course books. But TV?
I'm racking my brain to see if I can remember one, but... not sure? Even reality shows are carefully edited and have some sort of intended structure and showcasing heavily edited 'personalities' we're manipulated into loving/hating etc...

Seinfeld was supposed to be about nothing, but they definitely had a strong plot every episode so they're out...

(Fez, think of something more interesting than me, i'm becoming boring so i think i'll have to leave soon because i'm ruining the thread...)

Will report back if i think of something... ahem *dignified exit*
 
This io9 piece states that the TV series will be very different from the novel:

http://io9.com/man-in-the-high-castle-is-wildly-different-from-the-boo-1679953073

(BTW the opening titles shows Isa Dick Hackett- Dick's daughter- as one of the executive producers, as well as Ridley Scott... the latter prob means the visuals will be nice, not sure if his family's involvement will make any difference but they really care about his legacy afaik...

and I think probably because all the films from the 1980s based on his books turned out so incredibly awful- more Hollywood's fault than that of the original works, though- they're very keen to avoid that now...

The first successful film adaptation of his work of was probably Minority Report, although it's got that godawful cnut Cruise in it, it's a decent film and it got a lot of the mood and details right... )

Re: High Castle, it's interesting how people used to think Japan would grow to be this huge superpower, when in reality it turned out to be China...

A lot of the- especially 1950s- era science fiction authors were shaped by Cold War paranoia, what's so interesting with Dick though is the way he takes that one step further and merges it with personal fears and identity issues and creates all these confusing paranoid realities, shapeshifting worlds-within-worlds where you don't know what's real and what's just delusions in the main character's head...

(but there's always an urgency to find out what's real, you identify with the main character and want him to be able to shake off the delusions and see what his world is really like, of course that always comes at a price- because in these worlds delusion and deception is always used as a form of control- to lull the people into complacency, if you by some personal epiphany suddenly become able to see through the lies you also become an enemy to the powers who use this control...)

So many of his obsessive fears/worries for the future have actually materialised themselves eerily close to how he imagined it... how the increased technologisation(is that a word?) would also imply increased monitoring and mapping of the individual, and the near cryptofascist dangers of corporate control...

The book version of Blade Runner (Does Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?) show a real worry about environmental destruction (in the novel all real animals are extinct and there's a high demand for expensive fake animal robot pets)

I don't remember anymore whether the orientalist future cityscape of Blade Runner did feature in the book, or whether it was mostly the creation of set designers Syd Mead and Moebius, but on the first test screening Dick was overjoyed and said they'd made it exactly like he'd imagined it in his head when he wrote it... he was overjoyed and moved and impressed... Sadly he died shortly after that, but good for him that he actually got to see it. I reckon it must've felt like a small victory too, for the way he'd suffered financially throughout most of his career and the condescending way he'd been treated for being 'only' an SF writer.

What's always great about a PKD novel is the way he makes you sympathise with the main character, we see things from his point of view and he's always struggling, always an outsider, always trapped in a system which is confusing and depressing and where he can't really breathe... So much american SF (both then and now) is disappointingly apolitical, but although he's not overtly political he still is because of the dystopian nature of the worlds/societies he portrays and the way 'the little man' suffers from the control systems/structures of that world.

- Did any SF films feature an orientalist high tech future before Blade Runner came along, or was this the first time it'd been shown on the big screen? So many have mimicked/copied the visuals and art design of BR that for films set in the future it's almost a cliché now, but it was a groundbreaking thing when it first came along...

(just noticed Johnny Mnemonic would fit as inspired by the Dick canon aswell, it's got a high-tech future, asian corporations dominating things, a digitally enhanced human courier 'plugging in' to the internet matrix, lots of paranoia and so on... not a good film, but definitely belong to that whole SF subgenre, or maybe it owes more to cyberpunk?)

Just remembered Dick wrote the Man In the High Castle using the I Ching, which means he let the random results of the oracle decide which direction he'd take... which is interesting. Unlike Burrough's cut-up technique it still gave him some control over what he wrote, but to give up the narrative structure to chance was a pretty daring thing to do, as that didn't guarantee him a logical progression or a readable result...

I'd be interested to see whether the (quality) visual direction of the series matches the performance of the actors, and to what degree they'd altered the script compared to the book version.
 
On a related note... I'm reading The House of Rumour by Jake Arnott at the moment - it's all about the 40's - 80's sci-fi scene and it gives a massive nod to Dick's Man in the High Castle. It really is very good and I reckon if you like Dick's stuff you'll get into this.

That's a fantastic book, really clever, funny and singular.

I really like a lot of Dick's stuff, but House of Rumour is better than most of it.
 
I quite enjoyed the visual feel of Man In The High Castle (tv show) not so engaged by script. I do wonder where its going though and would watch more if it is available.
 
Yeah... and unlike his other novels it's not really science fiction at all IMO, more of the fantastic/speculative fiction tradition- with an alternative history theme... Nothing science fiction-y happens in it, the blending of two alterative realities/parallel worlds is of course not strictly realism but it doesn't automatically make it science fiction either... IIRC 'High Castle' got marketed as a mainstream type novel and wasn't necessarily associated with/mentioned in the same breath as science fiction, just like Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five isn't thought of as science fiction (no comparision intended)
best alt history authors for me: harry tutledove and robert silverburg


slaughtehouse 5 has time travel so by anones yardstick is SF
 
slaughtehouse 5 has time travel so by anones yardstick is SF
Hmm, yeah what I meant IIRC was probably that since it's afterwards been accepted into the mainstream literary canon of best 20th century novels etc. and is no longer mentioned as being SF, it's now regarded as 'just' a novel with some fantastical elements even though in the original context it was SF... if you know what i mean.
 
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