Lula arrested in Graft Probe

[Idris2002]

Surprised (not majorly, just a bit) that this hasn't had a thread yet.

Lula da Silva detained by Brazilian police in Petrobras probe - FT.com

Just before the weekend, former President of Brazil and long-term leader of the Workers' Party, Luis Da Silva, was arrested in connection with inquiries into corruption around Petrobras, the Brazilian oil company.

I'm not sure it comes across in that FT link, but in the print edition's coverage there was a whiff of "got the bastard".

It seems to be a case of them saying "see, the populist left has got its comeuppance at last". Yet, the New York Times has this at the bottom of its report on the case:

Eduardo Cunha, the conservative speaker of Brazil’s lower house of Congress, is also facing a trial at the Supreme Court on a charge of pocketing millions of dollars of bribes in the Petrobras scheme. He has refused to step down, heightening the sense of gridlock in Brasília as scandals simultaneously shake various governing institutions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/05/world/americas/brazil-raid-luiz-incio-lula-da-silva.html?_r=0

His home was raided by the Brazilian peelers last year, according to the Grunaiad:

Brazilian police raid home of speaker Cunha and other senior politicians

Cunha's the guy behind attempts to impeach Dilma Rousseff over the Petrobras scandal. My guess is they're all at it. . .how this will all pan out in the end is unclear, but I doubt if it will help the people in the shanty towns.

 

[yield]

Don't know why I'm surprised. They're all at it.

Lula seemed better than most though. Bolsa Família was a success?

 

[Virtual Blue]

I read it as Lulu - the singer from the 1960s.

 

[Idris2002]

More Lula controversy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/w...t&contentID=WhatsNext&src=recg&pgtype=article

Over the weekend, I emailed a Brazilian colleague about this, and he told me that as far as he's concerned it's an attempt at a concealed coup d'etat by people who "hate the poor". It's a bold strategy, let's see if it pays off for them.

 

[Idris2002]

I read it as Lulu - the singer from the 1960s.

Tu Stultus Es.

 

[J Ed]

The photo that’s become the emblem of Brazil’s political turmoil

On a day when every Brazilian, or so it seemed, was sharing protest pictures on social media, there was one picture that became the picture, the one everyone was talking about – a sort of Rorschach test for the country.

On Sunday, nearly two million people took to the streets in 121 cities across Brazil to protest government corruption and to demand the impeachment or resignation of President Dilma Rousseff, whose government is enmeshed in a massive graft scandal.

Among the people who went to march were Claudio Pracownik and Carolina Maia Pracownik, a white couple who live on a leafy street in Ipanema. They brought with them their little white dog, on a colour co-ordinated leash, and their two toddler daughters, who rode in a stroller pushed by a black maid wearing the all-white uniform that some wealthy Brazilians prefer their domestic employees to wear.

Joao Valadares, a photographer with the newspaper Correio Braziliense, snapped their picture on the street in Copacabana, and before the protest was even over, it had been shared thousands of times – millions, by nightfall, here in this country that has the second-largest number of daily Facebook users.

Some Brazilians looked at the picture and saw a patriotic family, fed up with a seemingly unending series of revelations about politicians and kickbacks, on their way to make their voices heard – accompanied by a woman who has “an honest job”, as a great many commentators put it, at a time when millions of Brazilians are unemployed.

Others saw the poster-couple for elite Brazil. “I look at this photo and I see primarily the repetition of a scene going back to the time of slavery,” Deborah Thome, a Rio writer and political scientist, wrote on her Facebook page Sunday night. “I am disgusted by the sight of a nanny dressed in a slave-maid’s clothes.”

And that, she said, is emblematic of everything that’s troubling about the current protests.

Polling suggests that Brazilians across all social classes and ethnicities are extremely frustrated with corruption and with the crisis currently paralyzing government. But they differ in where they apportion blame. The half-dozen large anti-corruption demonstrations in the past year have been dominated by white and upper-middle-class protesters, who tend to be supporters of the opposition Brazilian Social Democratic Party (PSDB), and to have little love for Ms. Rousseff’s left-leaning Workers’ Party, which has won four successive elections, the last one with a narrow defeat of the PSDB in 2014. Rousseff supporters say they are using the corruption scandal – in which politicians from virtually every party have been named – to try to unseat a democratically elected government.

The research institute Datafolha said that 77 per cent of participants at the demonstration in Sao Paulo, which was the largest in the country, were university graduates, versus the overall rate of 28 per cent in the city. Half of participants said they earned “between five and 20 times minimum wage,” versus 23 per cent of people in the overall population who earn in this range; 77 per cent self-identify as white although the last census showed just 45 per cent of Brazilians are white.

It’s a troubling moment for the country, Ms. Thome said. “The debate now –nothing will convince me otherwise – is between different and conflicting political visions. I don’t support the protests, but like many friends who went to the street, I want a better country. But the paths we want to take to get there are very different. And, in most cases, those paths will not meet.”

 

[Idris2002]

Damn you J Ed, I was going to post that. Before I get beaten a second time, here's a good piece of work:

Dilma Rouseff’s Impeachment Would Not Clean Up Corruption in Brazil

 

[LiamO]

The photo that’s become the emblem of Brazil’s political turmoil

Some people! What exactly is your problem with this pic?

Lady Liamo and I often take our considerable entourage of domestic staff to demonstrations*. Doesn't everyone? Who alse would mind the kids while we parade with our trophy pampered-pooch?

And btw Idris2002 , you need to up your game on thread-ownership here.

*Indeed we also send them alone (if we think there may be trouble, or if the weather is a trifle inclement).

 

[Idris2002]

Some people! What exactly is your problem with this pic?

Lady Liamo and I often take our considerable entourage of domestic staff to demonstrations*. Doesn't everyone? Who alse would mind the kids while we parade with our trophy, pampered pooch?

*Indeed we also send them alone (if we think there may be trouble, or if the weather is a trifle inclement).

"That was no lady, that was my wife".

Does anyone remember that show Isuara the Slave Girl that Channel 4 used to show? I was reminded of it by thon pic. Could it have been an attempt to prettify and glamourise Brazilian slavery?

 

[Idris2002]

Now there's uproar over leaked transcripts of a phone call between Dilma and Lula, apparently showing that his appointment to her cabinet is intended to help him dodge his pursuers:

Release of tapped phone calls between Lula and Rousseff sparks mass protests in Brazil

Two relevant comments on that thread:

Here are a few points that the Guardian forgot to cover:
- Moro's wiretaps were unsanctioned;
- The list of people he was listening to included the former president, as well as the head of the Federal Justice System;
- If and when Lula joined Dilma's administration, all of the findings against him would be sent to Federal Court, including the illegal wiretaps on the former president and on the head of the institution which would preside the investigation;
- Moro released the transcripts of the conversation straight to the most biased and highest rated news show in the country;
- The head of the nacional bar claims that it was not only criminal, but also a national security breach;
- President Rousseff is also taking legal action against the judge;
- Moro headed the "Carwash" operation, but only prosecuted one political party. The former right wing presidential candidate, Aécio Neves, was accused five times during the investigation. There are no law suits against him and no wiretaps on his phones.

Which is interesting, but there is also this, which is damning:

Before Lula was president he and his family were working class people. After his presidency he and his family are now millionaires with huge houses et etc. How??? The salary is not that high and certainly doesn´t account for his new found wealth. His sons are also rich - how???

 

[Idris2002]

Like my contact says, it does look like a (semi) legal coup by people who hate the poor - but the govt are giving them an open goal to kick their way into.

 

[1%er]

Over the weekend, I emailed a Brazilian colleague about this, and he told me that as far as he's concerned it's an attempt at a concealed coup d'etat by people who "hate the poor". It's a bold strategy, let's see if it pays off for them.

This sums it up really, the press (mostly owned by people who want rid the the PT) made a big deal about 2 million people demonstrating against the PT government, but in a country of over 200 million people it is just a small amount. It is also a response to the fact that a number of right-wing politicians have been caught up in the corruption, many with millions of US$ in Swiss bank accounts.

This all stems from Petrobras, which was one of the ten biggest companies in the world and for sure the biggest in the Southern hemisphere, it has been funding politicians from all parties to ensure that whoever get into government doesn't look to closely at what they are doing. Corruption is widespread throughout Brazil and is seen by many as "that's just the way things are done", the people all complain but don't really make any real effort to change it.

Lula is not rich (depending on how you define rich) he does make around $100,000 (US) for speeches, but that is in line with other ex-presidents. As Forbes put it "There has been a lot of rumors about the wealth of Lula’s family but nothing based on any real facts". With regards to him owning loads of property "Instituto Lula" has answered the allegations against him in this regard (link) and produced documentation.

 

[Idris2002]

This sums it up really, the press (mostly owned by people who want rid the the PT) made a big deal about 2 million people demonstrating against the PT government, but in a country of over 200 million people it is just a small amount. It is also a response to the fact that a number of right-wing politicians have been caught up in the corruption, many with millions of US$ in Swiss bank accounts.

This all stems from Petrobras, which was one of the ten biggest companies in the world and for sure the biggest in the Southern hemisphere, it has been funding politicians from all parties to ensure that whoever get into government doesn't look to closely at what they are doing. Corruption is widespread throughout Brazil and is seen by many as "that's just the way things are done", the people all complain but don't really make any real effort to change it.

Lula is not rich (depending on how you define rich) he does make around $100,000 (US) for speeches, but that is in line with other ex-presidents. As Forbes put it "There has been a lot of rumors about the wealth of Lula’s family but nothing based on any real facts". With regards to him owning loads of property "Instituto Lula" has answered the allegations against him in this regard (link) and produced documentation.

Many thanks for this. I was thinking that even if he is bent, he is to be preferred to the local Tories. It looks like the local Tories (including the one I quoted above) have been playing fast and loose with the truth.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

Many thanks for this. I was thinking that even if he is bent, he is to be preferred to the local Tories. It looks like the local Tories (including the one I quoted above) have been playing fast and loose with the truth.

I think it's wrong to think of it as a simple good/bad right/left choice. As 1%er says there is a lot of corruption in Brazil. The smaller corruption is perhaps reducing as attitudes are changing, but the deep, entrenched corruption is endemic. In the 70's and 80's government ministers would always fly in the private jets of one of the big construction firms, the very firms that benefited from the Petrobras "commissions". PT were a little later to the table (at the Federal level) as Lula was the first PT president, so they are probably less dirty.
There is still massive corruption at the state level and the other parties, some with PT in government, and some against, and some with different state level alliances are dirty.
Brazil is a big place with a very expensive bureaucracy. It runs on party lists, so there is little personal accountability. The cost per vote to campaign for president is greater than in the USA. Tiny municipalities have loads of very expensive "vereadors" who all want a car and a driver and to be able to push contracts to friends...all need to fund their campaigns.

Impeachment of Dilma is a diversion for a screwed up congress trying to divert eyes from their corruption. It is also preventing them dealing with the serious stuff, like the budget.

I suspect Lula isn't as clean as I hoped he was. I was working in the North East over Christmas dealing with a very large number of cows from his son's ranch (allegedly). It's hard to be a "self-made" rancher in a country where land is generally inherited.

Dilma screwed up. She failed to make any structural changes in the good times. She is now talking about pension reform, but the labour law, tax system and education need huge reform. I suppose she's like Gordon Brown, not a bad person, just no where near as competent as people had assumed.

The good news
(1) is the "establishment" have noticed that the poor exist and that they have votes. Chaves was successful on this basis, mobilizing the rural poor. Lula did the same but was a good, competent, president and probably less corrupt than he predecessors. His successors will need to be mindful of the poor.
(2) people are actually fighting against corruption now, including the judiciary. If you are in your 20s in Brazil and have a mind to enter politics I think you would be much more careful than the current generation of politicians in their 50s to 70s.
(3) Gabeira for president!

 

[Idris2002]

The good news
(1) is the "establishment" have noticed that the poor exist and that they have votes. Chaves was successful on this basis, mobilizing the rural poor. Lula did the same but was a good, competent, president and probably less corrupt than he predecessors. His successors will need to be mindful of the poor.
(2) people are actually fighting against corruption now, including the judiciary. If you are in your 20s in Brazil and have a mind to enter politics I think you would be much more careful than the current generation of politicians in their 50s to 70s.
(3) Gabeira for president!

1. How are people who hate the poor going to be "mindful of the poor" in future?

2. Remember the early '90s, when there was an active layer of lawyers and judges fighting corruption in Italy? Who did the Italians end up with in the end? Ranking mafia don, Silvio Berlusconi, that's who.


3. Who the fuck is Gabeira?

 

[pseudonarcissus]

1. How are people who hate the poor going to be "mindful of the poor" in future?

2. Remember the early '90s, when there was an active layer of lawyers and judges fighting corruption in Italy? Who did the Italians end up with in the end? Ranking mafia don, Silvio Berlusconi, that's who.

3. Who the fuck is Gabeira?

1. the "poor", those traditionally ignored by the political establishment, are a significant and fairly cohesive political block
2. mafia don, or media don? are are they the same thing?
3. Fernando Gabeira

 

[Idris2002]

1. the "poor", those traditionally ignored by the political establishment, are a significant and fairly cohesive political block
2. mafia don, or media don? are are they the same thing?
3. Fernando Gabeira

1. It's "bloc", not "block", and if the goal is to sustain elite hegemony then the drive will be to exclude the poor and return Brazil to the status quo ante.

2. Berlusconi's mafia links are well established, as is the fact that he was up to his eyeballs in corruption - his political career demonstrates the naiviete of believing that a few good men and true can root out corruption from any body politic.

3. Never heard of this Gabeira guy before - has he even expressed any interest in the Brazilian presidency?

 

[1%er]

The sad thing is that Brazil could be one of the best countries in the world for free education, free healthcare and a good standard of living for all, if the tens of billions that disappears into the pockets of the corrupt went into public spending.

Dilma has been a big disappointment, instead of continuing the work started by Lula she has allowed herself and the government to become distracted, she should have pushed on with the reforms in healthcare, education and welfare. The situation with Petrobras hasn't helped and this has had a massive effect in many other areas of the Brazilian economy.

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better, unemployment is growing very fast and that will lead to more crime and less money for public services. What Brazil needs is a popular uprising by the workingclass and poor, the problem with that is the army could take control again and things would really go to shit.

Brazil perpetually the country of the future

 

[grubby local]

Glenn Greenwald interviews Lula (45m)



gx

 

[J Ed]

Greenwald speaks an impressively fluent Portuguese

 

[elbows]

Oh blimey:

Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff has denounced a "coup" plot against her, suggesting that Vice President Michel Temer is one of the "conspirators".

The president - who is facing impeachment in the national Congress - hinted that he was one of the ringleaders of a plot to overthrow her.

She said an audio message released on Monday by Mr Temer, who she did not name, was evidence of the conspiracy.

The message by Mr Temer called for a government of national unity.

Correspondents say that it implied that Ms Rousseff's impeachment had already happened. Mr Temer says the message was released by accident.

"They now are conspiring openly, in the light of day, to destabilise a legitimately elected president," the president said.

Brazil's Dilma Rousseff accuses VP Temer of part in 'coup' - BBC News

Released by accident, oh my!

 

[trabuquera]

Greenwald speaks an impressively fluent Portuguese

He should do - he's been living in Brazil for years and his partner is Brazilian ... and GG won't want to be the worse off in ANY verbal exchange so his motivation is high

 

[Sirena]

Greenwald speaks an impressively fluent Portuguese

With a good Brazilian accent...

 

[1%er]

What a fucking mess, it's like a cross between a Brazilian version of House of Cards and a Telenovela.

Dilma Rousseff is being threatened with impeachment because she fiddled some figures around the size of the deficit just prior to the last election, it is claimed that the accounts that were signed off by her (and Michel Temer the vice president) had deliberate inaccurate deficit figures, it is being argued that the numbers were far higher than those in the accounts, this has not yet been shown neither has it been proved that she was aware of this when she signed off the accounts.

If she is guilty, then so is Michel Temer her vice president, as he also signed off the accounts. If Dilma is impeached the next inline to take over as President is Michel Temer, but he is open to the very same accusations, so what then, a move against him?

Well then, the biggest bandido of them all and the one who has personally benefited financially from corruption Eduardo Cunha gets the top job. So the two politicians who are accused of massaging figures for political gain (common practice by politicians across the globe) get kicked out and the thieving bastard who has spent years stuffing his pockets with billions of B$ get to play at being president.

Currently around 70 politicians are being investigated for corruption many of them are on the committee that voted to impeach Rousseff, clearly they have a vested interest in removing both Rousseff and Temer and having one of their own in charge to put a stop to the current corruption investigations and stop the gravy train from being derailed.

The most interesting thing for me in all this is how the Brazilian people will react to what is in effect a coup by the corrupt to protect themselves.

 

[Idris2002]

Going down to the wire:

Tension high in Brazil as impeachment vote looms

 

[1%er]

So it looks like Dilma will be impeached, Congress (the lower house) voted to impeach by the 2/3 majority they needed and now it will go to the Senate, where a simple majority is needed for the process to move forward and they are currently likely to get that, as the evidence hasn't yet been looked at.

This process is a master class in Turkeys voting for Christmas, the PMDB (Brazilian Democratic Movement Party) who were in coalition with the PT (Workers Party) voted for impeachment, their leader is the Vice-President Michel Temer, he will also be very likely to face charges of impeachment if the special committee of the Senate investigation that will follow their vote to impeach, finds Dilma guilty, as he also counter-signed all the same documents that she signed.

This is all likely to take a few months, the Senate vote will be next month and if they vote for impeachment (which they are likely to do), it all goes back to the special committee for the investigation, this committee will then look at all the documents and evidence presented by both sides (this has no time limit), the Senate will then vote again to decide if the evidence has changed their view, if not, there will then be another vote in the Senate chaired by the president of the Supreme Court, this final vote will again need a 2/3 majority (this vote is not as clear cut, by then Senators will have seen the evidence and it needs 2/3 not a simply majority).

What is really going on here is that politicians want to stop the corruption investigations (started by Dilma) as so many of them will be shown to have received corrupt payments. I should make a correction to my post two above where I say "70 politicians are being investigated for corruption" that should read 70 politicians currently have cases open against them, the figure of those being investigated (but yet to have cases opened) is 50% of the members of the Congress.

I am sure you will by now be asking yourself, why the fuck do they go through all the processes above before anyone "examines the evidence", well that is the same question millions of Brazilians are also asking themselves

 

[1%er]

They have again laid charges against Lula for corruption, now it is claimed he is the head of the Lava Jato (car wash) corruption scheme and owns properties that were funded by his corruption. these are the same claims that were looked into by a Judge only last month. Judge Sergio Moro (no friend of Lula) who is overseeing the Lava Jato investigation, acknowledge only in August that Lula does not own the apartment in Guaruja or the farm in Atibaia. He released documents that showed that the farm is owned by someone called Fernando Bittar a businessman who has owned the farm for many years and also documents from Nelco Warken who owns the complex of apartments in Guaruja showing that Lula doesn't own that either.

When one of the Federal Prosecutors was asked live on TV "what evidence do you have against Lula" he responded "we don't have any evidence but we know he is guilty". A judge will rule in the next week or so if the charges will go forward or not.

Interestingly none of the politicians or Petrobras executives who have been convicted in this corruption investigation have named Lula as being part of it, they have named a number of other politicians and executives in an effort to reduce their jail sentences.

Meanwhile back in the real world, Lula has indicated he will stand again for the PT in the 2018 presidential elections, polls show he is the most likely winner, but as no-one knows who else will be standing it doesn't mean much. His lawyers are now going to the U.N. Human Rights Committee in Geneva claiming that he is facing politically motivated charges in an effort to stop him standing in the 2018 elections.

BBC report here

I have no idea if Lula is corrupt or not, what I do know for sure is that a majority of members from both the Federal Senate (the upper house) and the Chamber of Deputies (the lower house) are being investigation for corruption and that the current president (Michel Temer) has been convicted and barred from standing for office for the next 8 years

 

[yield]

Brazil’s Lula says no decision yet on 2022 presidential run
10 Mar 2021

Former Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on Wednesday said he still has not made a definitive decision on whether he will run for president in next year’s presidential election, after a court moved to clear him of criminal charges.

Lula’s corruption convictions were quashed by a Supreme Court judge on Monday allowing him to try again for political office. On Wednesday, he made a lengthy speech that had the feel of a campaign event.

 

[Riklet]

Haha yeah but the guy is a canny operator. Savvy enough to know not to stick your neck out too early, especially while Bolsanaro is hanging himself.

He is definitely considering something in some form. Did anyone see his gym "get buff" video he posted at some point - getting back to work.

 

[Riklet]

O grande Rocky! Puts our wimpy lefty politicians to shame This was before the trumped up charges to get rid of him in 2018.



Does not look like a man who's going away (in Spanish but it´s the body language really)