How will you vote in the EU Referendum: Post financial waterboarding edition

[redsquirrel]

So back in May 2013 J Ed started this poll on which way people would vote if there was to be an EU referendum in the UK, with U75 voting approximately 2:1 in favour in staying in.

Since that time there's been two very important developments. Firstly we now know that barring something strange there will be a referendum on this issue in 2016 or 2017. Secondly we've just seen the EU impose extreme austerity on Greece. As such I thought it would be worth while to start a new poll and see if anybody has changed their minds.

 

[butchersapron]

Good start to the week, managed to vote YES when i meant NO - as i've argued for near 15 years on here.

 

[redsquirrel]

I've always been opposed to the EU and certainly wouldn't have voted to remain. I was wondering whether I could be bother getting an overseas vote sorted out but since the economic terrorism meted out to Greece I'll definitely be voting NO.

Indeed my current feeling is that if I am back in the UK at the time I'd even considering assisting with some type of left wing anti-EU campaign. Previously, I was of the opinion that any left-wing NO campaign would just be drowned out by right-wing elements and as such it wasn't really worth putting a lot of time and effort into such a campaign.
Now after Greece I think the possibility of a pro-w/c campaign has really been opened up and am more positive about it.

 

[redsquirrel]

Good start to the week, managed to vote YES when i meant NO - as i've argued for near 15 years on here.

You should be able to change your vote.

 

[Orang Utan]

Don't know enough about the issues to vote confidently one way or another. Wasn't even aware there was a referendum pending!

 

[frogwoman]

definitely voting to leave, i've always thought we should leave the EU and this just confirms it.

 

[butchersapron]

You should be able to change your vote.

I've never spotted that button before! Vote duly changed.

 

[Belushi]

Moved from stay to don't know.

If the referendum were last night I'd have voted to leave out of sheer fury

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

In the limited number of euro-elections I've had the misfortune to vote in, I've always gone for that Tony Benn/Bob Crow (bless their souls) outfit No2EU. Given the recent behaviour of our EU overlords, I'm beginning to wonder if there wasn't foul play at foot.

 

[JHE]

In the limited number of euro-elections I've had the misfortune to vote in, I've always gone for that Tony Benn/Bob Crow (bless their souls) outfit No2EU.

Good for you, but of course Tony Benn was not a member of No2EU. He was always opposed to the Common Market, later EEC, later EC and now EU, but he was also always a member of the Labour Party. He said he would die a member of the Labour Party and he did.

 

[Pickman's model]

He said he would die a member of the Labour Party and he did.

always good to achieve an ambition

 

[JTG]

Out

 

[cesare]

I voted out but I remain concerned about employment protection which is driven, for the most part, by Europe. The Coalition has already eroded much and erected barriers to justice such as the ET fees. The Tories would have a field day without Europe.

 

[existentialist]

I've always been very strongly in favour of staying in Europe, primarily because I saw is as a comparatively benign institution which has helped us keep from invading each other for a fairly long time. But, watching the financial equivalent of Blitzkrieg against Greece, I wonder if the European project isn't really just another way of carrying out land grabs (or resource grabs, anyway) by another means.

I'm going to have to do some serious thinking - I've gone from "definite yes" to "hmm, really not sure".

 

[Roadkill]

Probably in, but increasingly reluctantly after the events of the last few weeks. The EU is shit in a great many ways, but there are big risks in coming out. Too big to even consider leaving, I'd have said until recently, but now I'm not so sure...

 

[weltweit]

Think about a Europe where, for the sake of argument, the Euro has failed and the EU has failed and all have retrenched to the status of nation states and you would likely be thinking of a situation in which a major European war could reoccur. I think the EU has contributed significantly to an extended period of peace in Europe and I want that to continue.

The UK has already opted out of the Euro, and it should remain out, but we are in the EU, contribute to its continued development, and gain significant benefits from being in the Single Market. My view is we should stay in, if Cameron can win concessions to the UKs advantage during the referendum period then all well and good but I will be voting to stay in.

 

[frogwoman]

Think about a Europe where, for the sake of argument, the Euro has failed and the EU has failed and all have retrenched to the status of nation states and you would likely be thinking of a situation in which a major European war could reoccur. I think the EU has contributed significantly to an extended period of peace in Europe and I want that to continue.

The UK has already opted out of the Euro, and it should remain out, but we are in the EU, contribute to its continued development, and gain significant benefits from being in the Single Market. My view is we should stay in, if Cameron can win concessions to the UKs advantage during the referendum period then all well and good but I will be voting to stay in.

The EU is failing right now. You were arguing that you thought war was unlikely on the other thread.

 

[weltweit]

The EU is failing right now. You were arguing that you thought war was unlikely on the other thread.

Because of the EU, yes.

 

[DotCommunist]

if you can watch a democraticaly elected government bullied into compliance with a 50bn euros worth of state assets being directly tranfered to an org chaired by the german finance minister and still vote yes, fill your boots

 

[frogwoman]

Because of the EU, yes.

OK so how is it not failing?

 

[bi0boy]

Will vote to stay. I regard membership of the EU as a very different thing to membership of the Euro, which I would certainly vote against.

 

[Roadkill]

if you can watch a democraticaly elected government bullied into compliance with a 50bn euros worth of state assets being directly tranfered to an org chaired by the german finance minister and still vote yes, fill your boots

There are at least two important infrastructure projects taking place within a mile of where I'm sitting, both part-funded directly by the EU, and I'm pretty sure the other big investments in offshore wind power around the Humber - mainly by German and Danish firms - wouldn't have happened were Britain not in the EU. Plus, although the proportion of trade the UK does is declining, collectively it's still our largest trading partner, and in eastern Britain that means a lot of jobs. The EU's shite in a lot of ways and we've seen the very worst of it in the last few weeks, but if coming out means losing investment and jobs then I'll hold my nose and vote to stay. Fool be anyone who doesn't weigh up the risks and benefits before deciding which way to jump.

 

[Teaboy]

This war thing is a massive red herring, if the EU fell apart tomorrow the tanks would not start rolling. So much has changed since the last European implosion that it would have to take an extraordinary set of events for a 1940's re-run, its just not going to happen.

 

[flypanam]

I'm still of the same mind set, I'd vote out. That might mean difficulties for my wife and I but the EU has dropped it mask.

I think if we voted out it will completely disorientate the tories and labour. It could be chance for the pro working class side to gain momentum.

 

[weltweit]

OK so how is it not failing?

I don't have time to construct a detailed response but:
500 million citizens
GDP of 18.495 trillion US dollars, the largest economy in the world.

 

[Roadkill]

It could be chance for the pro working class side to gain momentum.

Perhaps, but I've yet to hear anyone explain how, and tbh it feels to me like a hangover from the arguments advanced by the Labour left in the 80s. It is possible that leaving the EU could open up space for more progressive politics, but equally possible it could go the other way. More so, IMHO, given the motives of some of the most vociferous 'outers.'

 

[frogwoman]

This war thing is a massive red herring, if the EU fell apart tomorrow the tanks would not start rolling. So much has changed since the last European implosion that it would have to take an extraordinary set of events for a 1940's re-run, its just not going to happen.

Exactly, I don't think war is any more likely outside the EU than inside.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I voted out but I remain concerned about employment protection which is driven, for the most part, by Europe. The Coalition has already eroded much and erected barriers to justice such as the ET fees. The Tories would have a field day without Europe.

Yep. I'm disgusted by the EU but all my previous reasons for fearing what the Tories would do with no EU brake on them still stand.

 

[Teaboy]

I'm still of the same mind set, I'd vote out. That might mean difficulties for my wife and I but the EU has dropped it mask.

Yeah this is it for me, I always knew it my heart that something very wrong was happening but recently, as you say, the mask has dropped and we've seen what's really going on and it's laid bare in all it's vulgarity.

I can understand why anyone would be worried about leaving, fear of the unknown etc, but whichever way you paint it the whole EU project is deeply undemocratic and I cannot square that circle.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't have time to construct a detailed response but:
500 million citizens
GDP of 18.495 trillion US dollars, the largest economy in the world.

umm so?

the eu is trying to think of ways to exclude several million of those 500 million citizens (croatians, bulgarians and romanians) from having full rights in EU countries, in terms of preventing war on its periphery and authoritarian governments at home (think hungary and spain) it's failed abysmally, it's failed in terms of providing "solidarity" - look at greece. even the much vaunted "social europe" provisions are either ignored, or negotiated out of

it's been a failure by any stretch of the imagination