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Greece: Euro crisis

likesfish

likesfish

You can't park here sir
:(
broke about to get another tranche of bailout money.
but at the cost of thousands of civil service jobs.
massive property taxes all round.
tax collection seen as a shambles.
modern states can't function without taxes and corruption endemic. get enough tax revenue in a state can function with a small % of corruption but if everyone's at it the lights go out.
 
As I understand it, the Germans wanted their euro at an artificially low rate so Germany could export to the world at an artificially low rate - so they turned a blind eye to what Greece and others did. The Germans now continue to demand interest from Greece on the money Greece borrowed from Germany to keep the German euro stable. I think if I werer Greek I'd know exactly how I'd feel about this.
 
London_Calling said:
As I understand it, the Germans wanted their euro at an artificially low rate so Germany could export to the world at an artificially low rate - so they turned a blind eye to what Greece and others did. The Germans now continue to demand interest from Greece on the money Greece borrowed from Germany to keep the German euro stable. I think if I werer Greek I'd know exactly how I'd feel about this.
Click to expand...
The rest of the world is up for Europe being a closer union, and this is a definite hiccup - but Greece needs to work it out - they cannot even collect tax properly there so it is not surprising that changes are required.
 
I'm rather more interested in monetary imperialism, as well as the effect on the *average* Greek of continued German intervention.
 
The Greek people are expected to suffer a level of austerity not seen in Europe (apart from former Eastern Bloc) not seen since before WWII. How far away are they from revolution / civil war? There must be a lot of young people in Greece who have now come to the conclusion that matters are never going to improve - this is the same thought process which has lead to revolutions in the middle east
 
Well, the Germans will keep taking and taking until someone says enough.

The response of the Icelandic people to the appeasement initially accepted by their national politicians is some kind of model - although I doubt they're reading too much about that in their papers in Athens.
 
Gmart said:
I'll lay a bet that Greece and the Euro will still be intact this time next year.
Click to expand...
It's gotta find EUR8.1bn to repay four of it's bonds that are maturing between 19th-30th Dec this year.
IF you could get someone to make you a price, it would be in the region of 80-90cents on the 1EUR.
6M CDS rates are in the region of 9500bps (ie 9.5%).

While I agree with you, it's prolly the least-good option imo. Better to come out of the Euro asap. Wear the pain, start issueing drachma's and devalue itself out of trouble.
 
London_Calling said:
You're saying Greece should default now?
Click to expand...

Many governments on behalf of the banks push the line "default = the end of the word as we know it" but would it really be that bad?

Ecuador defaulted in 2008 without any serious effects to either the country or to the international banking system
 
Yup, default at Christmas. It's the least-worst thing the Greek Govt could do imo and they get a "first-mover" advantage.
 
Argentina wasn't a bed of roses to people with jobs they lost everything in the banks overnight
middle class on the streets protesting .
rich did OK had most of their cash overseas in dollars :(
 
likesfish said:
:(
broke about to get another tranche of bailout money.
but at the cost of thousands of civil service jobs.
massive property taxes all round.
tax collection seen as a shambles.
modern states can't function without taxes and corruption endemic. get enough tax revenue in a state can function with a small % of corruption but if everyone's at it the lights go out.
Click to expand...

I disagree that Greece's problems are down to tax collection and corruption.
 
likesfish said:
Argentina wasn't a bed of roses to people with jobs they lost everything in the banks overnight
middle class on the streets protesting .
rich did OK had most of their cash overseas in dollars :(
Click to expand...

Argentina also devalued the peso at the same time as their default; an option that wouldn't, initially at least, be open to the Greeks.
 
tfb, Greece didn't meet the EU criteria for membership in the first place, whether on a fiscal basis or on the strength of its institutions. Later, Germany (and France) needed weaker currencies to be part of the great euro project so everyone turned a blind eye again. Now it's the Greeks fault.... or rather the Greeks who will bear the brunt of this i.e. working class and public sector employed Greeks...
 
I'd like to say that still makes it Greece fault for joining in the first place, but given how low transparency and accountability are on EU agenda actually hard to say.
 
And today on madasaboxoffrogs.com

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14999363

Greece bailout: Cabinet meets to discuss faster cuts
The Greek cabinet will meet later to discuss accelerating austerity measures aimed at securing further bailout funds to help ease the country's debt crisis.
An announcement on the measures agreed will be made this afternoon, a government spokesperson said.
Click to expand...
 
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