EU referendum for dummies?

[Thora]

I'm aware there is a referendum coming up, but I don't know anything about it (don't watch the news or read papers) and don't really have an opinion yet beyond liking being able to go and live in another country if I want to.

Can anyone summarise the arguments for and against leaving? Especially non-UKIP arguments for leaving.

 

[weltweit]

Are you registered to vote Thora ?

 

[goldenecitrone]

Vote Remain for things to say more or less as they are.
Vote Leave for fire, flood and pestilence.

 

[Thora]

Are you registered to vote Thora ?

I think so

 

[weltweit]

What is complicated about this referendum is that on the right of politics there are people voting to leave and to remain, and on the left of politics there are also people voting to leave and to remain. So it isn't split neatly on party lines, although the official Labour and Government positions are to remain in the EU.

 

[brogdale]

Can anyone summarise the arguments for and against leaving?

They're predictions.

 

[gosub]

I think so

Have you recieved a polling card?

 

[Thora]

Have you recieved a polling card?

Quite possibly. Lets assume I am able to vote for this thread though.

 

[Thora]

They're predictions.

Can you summarise the predictions then?

 

[brogdale]

Can you summarise the predictions then?

They're predictions of how bad it'll be if we don't support the delivery of neoliberalism advocated by the respective campaigns.

 

[Thora]

They're predictions of how bad it'll be if we don't support the delivery of neoliberalism advocated by the respective campaigns.

So, not worth voting either way? That will save me a walk to the polling station

 

[brogdale]

So, not worth voting either way? That will save me a walk to the polling station

In one.

 

[gosub]

So, not worth voting either way? That will save me a walk to the polling station

I think if your attitude is come on Mr Internet forum condense your thinking into something simple that relieves me of effort. Yep I agree avoid the walk.

 

[redsquirrel]

There are (more than) two current threads on this. OK one of them is a bit of a marathon, but the Brexit or Bremain thread is only 34 pages. If you're looking for something shorter still then this one is 11 pages.

EDIT: If my postal vote had arrived I would have voted out because
- while not going to issue the socialist revolution it nevertheless damages capital (otherwise why capital is overwhelming backing Remain), and opens up new possibilities for labour
- despite the narrowing of the polls, my prediction is still for Remain to win, but the narrower that win the more divisions in the Tories and the more room it gives to attacks on liberals
- I want to make liberal wankers cry

 

[Skyfallsz]

The left wing argument for leaving is that the EU is rubbish. The left wing argument for remain is that the alternative is rubbish

 

[pengaleng]

I cant be arsed voting.

have checked out.

tl;dv.

 

[Yossarian]

Boils down to Daily Mail cunts versus Eurocunts.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Choice of shot or hung but out might eventually produce better conditions for a socialist revolution whereas in won't.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

The left wing argument for leaving is that the EU is rubbish. The left wing argument for remain is that the alternative is rubbish

So the left wing out argument wins by a small margin, yes?

 

[Skyfallsz]

So the left wing out argument wins by a small margin, yes?

I think the only information we can glean from it is that the left wing isnt really taking itself seriously

'Does anyone know how to fly a plane'
'We shouldn't even be in a plane'

 

[SaskiaJayne]

I find it annoying that Corbyn isn't being left wing enough but yesterday he did admit he is only 70-75% for in which suggests at least 25% of him wants to try for a socialist revolution should there be an out vote.

 

[bi0boy]

Choice of shot or hung but out might eventually produce better conditions for a socialist revolution whereas in won't.

I'd rather not hand the country over to a mob of cheering xenophobes just so the non-existent socialist revolutionaries in this country might find it a bit easier should they ever actually exist at some point in the future.

 

[Skyfallsz]

I find it annoying that Corbyn isn't being left wing enough but yesterday he did admit he is only 70-75% for in which suggests at least 25% of him wants to try for a socialist revolution should there be an out vote.

Not led by him though, but he'll be in favour of it, from his country cottage

 

[fractionMan]

That's kinda my thinking ..

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Choice of shot or hung but out might eventually produce better conditions for a socialist revolution whereas in won't.

I find it annoying that Corbyn isn't being left wing enough but yesterday he did admit he is only 70-75% for in which suggests at least 25% of him wants to try for a socialist revolution should there be an out vote.

I'd rather not hand the country over to a mob of cheering xenophobes just so the non-existent socialist revolutionaries in this country might find it a bit easier should they ever actually exist at some point in the future.

What the fuck are you two on about with 'revolution'? The left wing argument for leaving the EU is that it might open up the possibility for the mildest of social-democratic reforms at some point in the future. That's it.

 

[bi0boy]

What the fuck are you two on about with 'revolution'? The left wing argument for leaving the EU is that it might open up the possibility for the mildest of social-democratic reforms at some point in the future. That's it.

Like what they have in Denmark or something

 

[tim]

I'm aware there is a referendum coming up, but I don't know anything about it (don't watch the news or read papers) and don't really have an opinion yet beyond liking being able to go and live in another country if I want to.

Can anyone summarise the arguments for and against leaving? Especially non-UKIP arguments for leaving.

Living in another country won't be much diifferent. However, Brexit will probably make working in the EU more difficult.

 

[redsquirrel]

I'd rather not hand the country over to a mob of cheering xenophobes just so the non-existent socialist revolutionaries in this country might find it a bit easier should they ever actually exist at some point in the future.

You'd support the current mob of cheering xenophobes in power then?

EDIT: Fuck it not doing this on another bloody thread, we've already got two. Can't a mod either delete or merge this with the already existing Referendum thread.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Like what they have in Denmark or something

Why the confusion? There are certain things that are more possible out of the EU than in. And these limitations placed upon us by the EU will only increase over time as it feels more secure in its power. Any remaining 'progressive' elements of the EU will be gone in 10 years time, and there will be no way to challenge the system democratically at that point. At the very least, on a domestic level we can change things slowly via the electoral system. Good luck against the commission though.

 

[Thora]

I just want a quick summary of the arguments on both sides.