Does anyone else play Victoria 2: AHD?

[camouflage]

AHD came out recently, and I've finally got round to downloading it, it's certainly more challenging economically. First game I'm playing Russia, and getting my industry up is taking ages, I've dropped taxes completely on the rich but my capitalists have invested in fuck all, they don't seem to be accumilating any capital at all even though tarrifs are as low as I can make em and the population seems to be saving quite healthily as the national bank is lending abroad (mostly my Polish community is saving for some reason).

My Artizans have been doing a good job of producing goods up till now but it looks like they're starting to come under pressure from competition from foreign industry (domestically I still have fuck all factories). I want to free the Serfs, but Consciousness is way too low even though I've been going for Consciousness raising options all along, been really benevolent to non-Russian ethnic minorities except when being a bastard to them will result in higher Consciousness (but not higher Militancy).

Government has appointed Westernizers (Liberal, Laissez Faire) but that's not helped yet. I do like the new diplomatic system though, having to justify wars now, it's very realistic tbh but I've not kicked-off on anyone yet. I considered starting on the Ottomans, but mostly just to see if the Czar of All Slavs event is still around, don't think is though, before AHD my last Victoria 2 game was as the USCSA (that was a fun game, did quite well, annexed Colombia and the Yucatan Peninsula, Western Venezuala and even gobbled-up Korea before the US finally rolled in to close me down) in fact this is the first time I've played Russia again since Victoria Revolutions.

Anyway I want Russia to become an economic power-house so I'm focusing on that and avoiding needless foreign adventures.

So, anyone else playing this or is it only sad boring me?

 

[camouflage]

God, I feel like this bloke now.

 

[YouSir]

If it's any comfort, if I hadn't just sold my PC for a netbook I'd be completely obsessed with this by now. How's the diplomatic system changed from 2?

 

[camouflage]

Thanks, that is comforting, I assume that you are a person of fine judgment and excellent taste naturally.

So far what's struck me is how you can now invest in other countries provided you have an interventionist government. For instance as Russia I can build railroads in Persia, which at this point is also in my sphere of influence which means that they are in my market. They sell their resources first to Russia, they buy the things they need to import first from Russia.

However the British, the French or the Americans or any of the other eight Great Powers might try to muscle in on my turf, try to woo the Persians away from Russia and into their own Sphere of Influence. By investing in Persia I can make this increasingly difficult. I haven't invested in Persia mind, no need to so far as just discrediting the other powers seems to have sufficed to keep not just Persia but also Japan and Sweden in Russias sphere of influence. I've also signed alliances with them and we're all quite tight so far. Currently laying on the charm with Manchuria (or is it Manchukuo) as a first step to bringing the China into russia's sphere, that would be truly kickass if I could pull it off, and surely make Russia the 900lb Economic Gorilla I'm trying to make it become.

By the way I was delighted to hear that the United States had gone bankrupt! I found this hilarious to be honest, I don't know how they managed it but I suspect they over-extended themselves, which is much easier to do now as money world-wide is a lot tighter. I'd noticed they were engaged in massive port building programs along their eastern coast, then they kicked-off a war for territory against Mexico... who knows what else they were splashing out on. Bankruptcy can now happen to anybody if one's not careful, even the likes of the USA. So they then tried to repudiate their debts and the UK (worlds creditor number one of course) wasn't having it and declared war, I followed suite as they owed Russia's central bank loads of money too, gotta look after the investment of my pops as I don't want them to get unnecessarily pissed off (there are already several secessionist movements simmering away, the Poles, the Ukrainians, those pesky Armenians and others, I've allowed Consciousness to get over 3.00 now... happily Militancy is still relatively low so there've been no uprisings... yet).

In the ensuing wars after the US tried to repudiate its debts Russia did precisely nothing, however my Swedish allies went over and started occupying Colombia, an ally of the US... the US finally agreed to honor their debts. I believe the war between them and the UK was quite fierce, in any case they settled with the UK too. However now the world is in a recession (debt deflation I suppose), prices are falling across the board and I don't know what to invest in. I've decided to concentrate on Russia's comparative advantages, it produces vast amounts of lumber, iron and coal for instance so I'm building factories that use things like that as inputs. I've a long way to catch up with the other Great Powers industrial scores though. I changed government by the way, back to a Conservative outfit as the Capitalists weren't really building any factories under the Liberal regime, the conservatives are interventionist so I can go ahead and build factories myself instead of hoping on the 'invisible hand' as it were. I don't recall what the consequences of switching governments like that are; Russia is still Czarist and therefore can just appoint governments at will but if I recall correctly this raises Plurality or something each time you do it. Too much of that sort of thing could go a bad way.

I think I'll stop playing this particular game though and await patch 2.2, which solves some issues in the version I've been playing (2.1). Maybe go play some FTM for a bit instead. I have to say though the Victorias have always been my favorite of the Paradox games, as was once said of a big fat book written by an old Russian bloke; all of life is here.

 

[camouflage]

Just a quick boast here really, as my partner's not having any of it (she won't even pretend the slightest interest) and the Victoria 2 forum's too full of oddballs and weirdos for my tastes.

Not really a big deal, just... nice, I rather think.

 

[Citizen66]

Tempted to get this. Already have three paradox games that i need to master

Sell it to me!

 

[past caring]

Haven't got it, but might. Got the various EUs, Crusader Kings and Hearts of Iron 2 and 3. Got massively, massively fucked off with HoI3 though and the Semper Fi and For the Motherland "expansions" - really fixing huge bugs and play issues, rather than true expansions. Which wouldn't be so bad if they'd fixed the thing that really needs fixing - the inability to assume military control in an alliance.

 

[camouflage]

Me sounding like I'm trying to sell this game is an unavoidable consequence of my enthusiasm for it tbf.

I've not played much since the weekend though, mostly because I don't get to play as much on 'school nights' but partially as I am facing a problem in the manner in which I have tried to expand the economy, I will elaborate later.

I will either patch to 2.2 and start a new game as Greece... or battle on, because just like Putin I am consider mission is Make Russia Strong like Bear!

 

[Stigmata]

This looks like it might be less technically demanding than Crusader Kings 2? The demo of that was near unplayable on my machine.

 

[Chz]

Making the economic system harder doesn't really attract me. I thought basic Victoria 2 was about as in-depth as I wanted to go. I mean, I like mucking about and micromanaging but only to a point. I always tried so hard to get into EU, but it was too much. I thought V2 struck a good balance, so I'm not convinced the expansion is for me. I was never able to make the Empire of Scandinavia an industrial powerhouse anyway.

 

[Stigmata]

Making the economic system harder doesn't really attract me. I thought basic Victoria 2 was about as in-depth as I wanted to go. I mean, I like mucking about and micromanaging but only to a point. I always tried so hard to get into EU, but it was too much. I thought V2 struck a good balance, so I'm not convinced the expansion is for me. I was never able to make the Empire of Scandinavia an industrial powerhouse anyway.

The trick with EU is not to worry that there are things you don't understand. By 1790 I carved Africa up between the Byzantine Empire and the Qin Dynasty without ever even clicking on some of the tabs.

 

[camouflage]

Right, I managed to get four of China's five regions into my sphere of influence, and the result was economic disaster that's taken quite some wrestling with to get under control. I've had to engage in austerity measures to keep from deficit-spending my way into bankruptcy. I even hat to cut back on Education and Administration at one point, something I never do considering Russias 13% Literacy, also I've neglected the Culture and Commerce techs to favor Industrial ones, which is probably an inferior strategy actually as now I'm still quite backward.

The problem is that Russia has very low infrastructure, and although I've built up my industry (from zero industrial score to 105 now) a good deal of my economy is dependent on Artisans. These small businesses/independant traders make very little margin, they look around and try a bit of that, a bit of this. Technically they are in the middle class tax band but really they are very sensitive to changes in the economy, so bringing in hundreds of thousands of Chinese Artizans to compete with them directly in the same market has hit them hard, I mean who wants to compete with China eh? Hopefully big spending on huge factories will gradually begin taking advantage of Chinas vast resources and put further pressure on Russias Artizans. They will be pleased.

The Armenians have finally kicked off mind... here's a formation of three grossly under-supplied cavalry divisions prudently avoiding trouble, severe cutbacks to the military budget you see. Things will improve.

 

[Stigmata]

I hope you aim to seize Ganja as soon as possible for morale purposes

 

[camouflage]

Ganja already belong Russia.

 

[camouflage]

Check this out, I've rounded up a number of regiments in the army with dissident sympathies (Anarchists, Nationalists, Reactionaries, Jacobins and the like) and put them all in the same column, and assigned that column the task of crushing rebel uprisings... Marvelous!

I considered carefully who should lead them mind. Skobelev, being Perverse and Uncommonly Young comes with a significant penalty to Reliability (-4% iirc), which is unacceptable with this bunch of chancers, so I thought I'd assign someone else. Eventually decided on a General Vasily Lazarev...

Colonial, Resourceful... a firm hand, fast; a good man. Ideal really.

Of course as time goes by if I am unable to bring about political reform there'll only be more of this sort of thing among the ranks. Something shall have to be done.

Anyway, news from abroad, here's a snap of the French (currently number 1 among the great powers for some reason) doing my bidding.

I thought I'd knock Mexico down a peg or two because they kept messing with nations in my sphere of influence. Can't blame em really, they're on the make aren't they, eager to secure they're place and not get relegated as it were in the next economic downturn or what-have-you. Still, can't have em messing about with Russian interests, it's not on. So, them being 8th of the Great Powers I figured a thorough drubbing should suffice to end their place among the big-boys, and thus their meddling with my client states.

I didn't want to have to actually make an effort and spend the lives of Russian pops and Russian treasure or anything, so after France requested an alliance I took the opportunity and promptly accepted. Then I justified and declared a war against Mexico. Now we see French forces moving in on Mexico City. They added a war goal of their own of course, and shortly after the war Mexico did indeed lose Great Power status. All while Russia and her forces stayed at home.

The important thing now in terms of foreign affairs is to think of a way to knock the French down a peg or two as well. Prussia, the UK or Austria might come in useful there. Whoever is on top while Russia isn't I shall endeavor to ensure is not on top by far.

 

[camouflage]

By the way the political dimension of the game's been filled out a lot, the dissidents are more organized now, they form Movements, and their Radicalism shows how far they are willing to work within the system before taking up arms.

As you can see Mother Russia is riddled with various Nationalists wanting 'freedom' (scoff!) as well as Anarcho-Liberal Jacobins and a vast clamor of vote-wanting landowners called the Suffrage Movement. So far I've held off suppressing any of these ungrateful rabble, but my ability to grant reforms comes along slowly.

Frankly I've half a mind to let the Bolsheviks seize power as soon as they try it (give the palace guard the night off, or a lot more vodka than usual), but for now the Communists remain a fringe movement of small percentage (not like in real history or anything).

For now the Jacobins are the main concern, they've a lot of support, they're serious and organized and have over 600 brigades ready to take up arms against the state (and over 1300 in total). I need to figure out a way to take the puff out of em.

By the way as well as saving money when they can, pops also donate money to the Movements to which they belong for arms and supplies for When The Day Comes. I think that's rather cool. Concerning mind, but cool.

Here's a pop failing to make ends-meet in crazy mixed-up Russia of today.

He (or should I say the statistical bracket he represents) has become an Anarcho-Liberal, as if the likes of Ayn Rand will help improve his lot. Typical of the pissed-off middle-class to go looking for answers in some weird wackadoodle ideology really. Actually Anarcho-Liberal is probably not the same as Anarcho-Capitalist but whetever. A bit of socialism might help but I can't offer that yet unfortunately. Instead of making ammunition he should consider demoting to Craftsman and go work in a factory or something, there are plenty of jobs for those that want em, lol.

 

[toblerone3]

You seem to spend a lot of time talking about politics and economy. Another Victoria 2 video I saw the game seemed to boil down almost exclusively into wargaming.

 

[camouflage]

Your man there with the embaressing voice is playing some sort of Mod, and as it's 1927 it's either late in the game or maybe a campaign (other than the 1836 start Grand Campaign that is). There are many ways to play, but my objectives for Russia do not include a massive amount of military expansion, no need really when you're Russia. I've been playing a very peaceful and non-warlike game so far, mostly concerned with becoming a sophisticated economic power-house. It's a great deal of fun to play the war-monger too mind, especially if you choose Prussia and become Germany (Germany seems naturally suited to becoming the scourge of Europe really). Russia, the UK or France are good choices to go for the World Conquest.

However for a more straight-up blobbing campaign I'd rather play HoI3: FTM tbh, a strategic war-game. Why waste all the wonderful 'social depth and complexity' in AHD? Besides which I quite like banging-on about politics and economics.

At the end of the day this game is what you make it.

 

[YouSir]

Like the look of added depth for dissidents and investing in other nations, plus always nice to see the US going bust - although I take it France and the UK are the same unassailable mega-powers as ever? Are debt wars worthwhile now? Never actually fought one in V2, amounts always seemed minor on those that defaulted even if I was the major banking nation, never enough to justify war expenses anyway. If the US were bust couldn't you have claimed some land while they were too broke to properly militarise? Take the badboy hit and claim California for Mother Russia perhaps... Does your lack of infrastructure mean it's gotten pricier to build railways? Or just that you've been focusing on factories? And how secure is the sphere these days? Places like China are always targets for everyone, would be hesitant to invest anywhere that I might lose if I fail to pay attention for a minute or two.

And shame on you for your lack of military aspirations, break Prussia at least, if Germany forms Europe becomes a closed to you and that just ain't right. Take a chunk out of Austria too, assuming they're still a decaying state.

May have to use this thread to play vicariously through you as I have no capable PC...

 

[camouflage]

Like the look of added depth for dissidents and investing in other nations, plus always nice to see the US going bust - although I take it France and the UK are the same unassailable mega-powers as ever? Are debt wars worthwhile now? Never actually fought one in V2, amounts always seemed minor on those that defaulted even if I was the major banking nation, never enough to justify war expenses anyway. If the US were bust couldn't you have claimed some land while they were too broke to properly militarise? Take the badboy hit and claim California for Mother Russia perhaps... Does your lack of infrastructure mean it's gotten pricier to build railways? Or just that you've been focusing on factories? And how secure is the sphere these days? Places like China are always targets for everyone, would be hesitant to invest anywhere that I might lose if I fail to pay attention for a minute or two.

And shame on you for your lack of military aspirations, break Prussia at least, if Germany forms Europe becomes a closed to you and that just ain't right. Take a chunk out of Austria too, assuming they're still a decaying state.

May have to use this thread to play vicariously through you as I have no capable PC...

France and the UK remain dominant in the game so far, here's the latest situation...

I wonder whether the debt war fought by the US and the UK messed them both up abit. The US might have had some sort of Flash Crash to go bankrupt in the first place, but since then it's now managed to completely lose the Civil War too, the CSA is not only intact, but quite strong...

I fought the debt-war because £3k was a lot of money at the time, for Russia anyway, and also because why should I let the US get away with it? some two-bit one province minor somewhere sure, ok. but not the United States, it's the principal really. Debt wars are useful if you're looking for a cassius-belle, depends if you add further war goals that you have no justification for (thus more infamy mind).

I'm not sure why it took so long for my Capitalists to build any railways, I wasted a lot of time for the Free Market to get my industry going before I realized it wasn't happening. I changed to a Conservative Government where I could build infrastructure like factories and railways myself. However this meant I didn't really start to industrialize for a while, Russia had no factories until the 50's I think, so the Artizans were the only ones manufacturing anything (that's what i meant re lack of infrastructure) and the Farmers and Laborers producing the lower value stuff under that. Artizans start out as more efficient producers than factories at first but with technology the factories start to outproduce them and the Artizans move into something else. The means that Western producers of Regular Furniture for instance would be starting to put the squeeze on them, it also means they get swamped by having China in the same market.

The Influence game is ok actually, the competition to influence a region is fairly easy to keep up with and you can invest directly in nations whose government forms allow it and shore up support quite well. It can be challenging going up against a Great Power that's not messing about, and it really can matter. I've found it relatively easy to be the dominant influence in Chinas five regions and keep the others out. But last night in a Prussia game I felt I had no chance opposing Austrias influence over the German states.

Yes, that's right, I was playing Prussia last night. What happened to the Russia game?



As you know political tensions had been rising in Russia for some time. I thought that by expanding the economy, keeping taxes low and employment high I could keep things from getting ugly until enough of the composition of the Upper House permitted reform...

It didn't happen in time. Eventually the Nationalists got tired of waiting I guess. It started with a Lithuanian Uprising...

this had happened before, in Armenia too, and once again I easily put them down with my once again under-supplied army. By the way the economy had been doing alright up till recently, I was minting it and had money to spare, but I decided to under-fund the military again when the economy turned down again. so I was caught off-gaurd when the latest bout of Lithuanian violence was followed by a much stronger Finnish uprising...

I couldn't put that down, I decided to let them go. It had always been my intention to release these nations eventually, I'd not built any factories in Finland or Lithuania or Armenia or any of these places. Only the Ukraine was to remain Russian. but I had to do it in the right order as other Movements become more Radical if you grant reforms to a smaller base. If granted independence to Lithuania, the Suffrage Movement might get bolshy, or the Jabobins or the Finns etc. However the Finns kind of forced my hand.

I granted them independence and set about securing them in Russia sphere of influence... and then a few months later this happened...

The JACOBIN APOCALYPSE.

Right throughout empire, even in Siberia and the Russian Far East...

I figured this is also what I want, it was actually, if the Jacobins seize power they will impose a Constitutional Monarchy, and this was the direction I wanted to go too. But as I waited for the Jacobins to take the Capital, a reactionary uprising kicked off. Now I had Jacobins and White Russian brigades all over the place. Annoyingly , unlike in Divine Wind, different rebel groups don't fight among each other in AHD (not enough TAGs I think).

So that was it for me. If the Jacobins seize power the Reactionaries will remain, and the various Nationalists.... and the Socialists, and the Communists... the situation for Russia was clearly now a disastrous free-for all with every militant with an arms dump now ready to step-up.

I have conceded defeat on this one. If you don't get the politics stuff right it will fuck you up, specially if you're playing Russia.

 

[jannerboyuk]

Fascinating stuff. Going to regret it, i'm going to give this a go. eek

 

[mk12]

I haven't got AHD but I loved Victoria 2. Dominated Europe and Africa with Communist France (French Commune I think it was called).

You should try out Crusader Kings 2, also made by Paradox. It's set between 1066 and 1492 and rather than taking the reins of a nation-state (which didn't exist as such), you play as a family/dynasty. You need to marry your offspring to powerful families, keep vassals happy to ensure you get their payments, fight holy wars against Muslims in Spain and the East, join crusades called by the Pope...it's great fun.

 

[camouflage]

Never got into that one because it doesn't have the whole world map, pet-peeve of mine. Currently getting back into Divine Wind though.

I'm thinking of giving the Grand Campaign mod a go, see if I can raise Ashanti or something through the ages to become an ubber-power by the WW2 period.

 

[mk12]

Do you know of any games where you take control of a current country? Or a more modern equivalent of these nation building games? Tropico is the only one I've ever got in to.

 

[Santino]

What's the combat like in Crusader Kings?

 

[camouflage]

Do you know of any games where you take control of a current country? Or a more modern equivalent of these nation building games? Tropico is the only one I've ever got in to.

Supreme Ruler 2010 and 2020, and also Superpower 2.

Superpower 2 had potential but in my opinion fell well short in the implementation. Supreme Ruler falls down for me in the way warfare is conducted (like playing with bits of rice while its being stir-fried), but that's probably just a taste thing on my part. You may well think otherwise.

Hearts of Iron 3 is very good, but is more specifically a war game. Also Hearts of Iron 2 (Doomsday) was in my opinion much more fun. For instance you could play as Poland in HoI2 and preemptively kick the Reich's ass and then go on to build your own Polish empire (good times). I've not so far been able to get into a HoI3 game so will have to suspend judgment on it, does look like a very good model of a WW2 game though, I wouldn't be surprised if it were played by professional Logisticians in training.

My own preference is for grand strategy games that have a good warfare element but are not centrally focused on war, but have a look at the HoI's for fairly recent nation building, if not exactly modern period.

Then of course there's the Civilisation games. Too bad there's not so far been a Call to Power 3 or Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri 2 yet (the original of that last one's sci-fi, an absolute classic which I didn't call SMAC for nothing).

 

[mk12]

What's the combat like in Crusader Kings?

It's similar to Victoria 2 (I don't know if you've played that). It's not the main aspect of the game, that's for sure.

 

[mk12]

My own preference is for grand strategy games that have a good warfare element but are not centrally focused on war, but have a look at the HoI's for fairly recent nation building, if not exactly modern period.

Me too. I like building nations and managing the economy, population etc over warfare.

 

[Citizen66]

I gave in and bought vic ii and the expansion from steam but they won't install, i get errors!

 

[camouflage]

I don't know why anyone uses Steam, I'm a GamersGate man m'self. Mind you will be moving over to Steam sharpish once they start implementing games on Ubuntu etc.

Anyhoo, best of luck, it really would be quite nice to talk to someone normal about the playing of Victoria 2 (the forums full of odd-balls you see. Odd-balls, weirdos and tories).