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Documentation for New EU "Treaty" Released

JHE said:
I thought the working language of the EU was now ya good ol' Ing-err-lish. Perhaps not.

Zat will sein ze Brussels-Angliki :D

Fine-sounding, things, however, are always better in the original French.
 
laptop said:
Fine-sounding, things, however, are always better in the original French.

Comme le suivant:

Article 2 Valeurs de l'Union

L'Union est fondée sur les valeurs de respect de la dignité humaine, de liberté, de démocratie, d'égalité, de l'État de droit, ainsi que de respect des droits de l'homme, y compris des droits des personnes appartenant à des minorités. Ces valeurs sont communes aux États membres dans une société caractérisée par le pluralisme, la non-discrimination, la tolérance, la justice, la solidarité et l'égalité entre les femmes et les hommes."

Article 3 Objectifs de l'Union

1.
L'Union a pour but de promouvoir la paix, ses valeurs et le bien-être de ses peuples.

2. L'Union offre à ses citoyens un espace de liberté, de sécurité et de justice sans frontières intérieures, au sein duquel est assurée la libre circulation des personnes, en liaison avec des mesures appropriées en matière de contrôle des frontières extérieures, d’asile, d’immigration ainsi que de prévention de la criminalité et de lutte contre ce phénomène.

3. L'Union établit un marché intérieur. Elle oeuvre pour le développement durable de l'Europe fondé sur une croissance économique équilibrée et sur la stabilité des prix, une économie sociale de marché hautement compétitive, qui tend au plein emploi et au progrès social, et un niveau élevé de protection et d'amélioration de la qualité de l'environnement.

Elle promeut le progrès scientifique et technique.

Elle combat l'exclusion sociale et les discriminations, et promeut la justice et la protection sociales, l'égalité entre les femmes et les hommes, la solidarité entre les générations et la protection des droits de l’enfant.

Elle promeut la cohésion économique, sociale et territoriale, et la solidarité entre les États membres.

Elle respecte la richesse de sa diversité culturelle et linguistique, et veille à la sauvegarde et au développement du patrimoine culturel européen

4. L'Union établit une union économique et monétaire dont la monnaie est l'euro.

5. Dans ses relations avec le reste du monde, l'Union affirme et promeut ses valeurs et ses intérêts et contribue à la protection de ses citoyens. Elle contribue à la paix, à la sécurité, au développement durable de la planète, à la solidarité et au respect mutuel entre les peuples, au commerce libre et équitable, à l'élimination de la pauvreté et à la protection des droits de l'homme, en particulier ceux de l’enfant, ainsi qu'au strict respect et au développement du droit international, notamment au respect des principes de la charte des Nations unies.

6. L'Union poursuit ses objectifs par des moyens appropriés, en fonction des compétences qui lui sont attribuées dans les traités.

Fine-sounding :D
 
CyberRose said:
Well I don't speak French but it looks good!
:p ;)


You said the EU was democratic only last week, please explain how and when our elected representives let alone the public are going to scrutinze this.
 
gosub said:
You said the EU was democratic only last week, please explain how and when our elected representives let alone the public are going to scrutinze this.
When they've leant French?
 
laptop said:
Fine-sounding :D

If that is representative, the really odd thing is that I can read Fine-Sounding Frog very well - and I don't know French. Really, there are barely two words* I'd have to look up to produce an Ing-err-lish translation of that extract.

Yer Proper Frog, as spoken by French people, is a very different matter. I understand rien de rien.

* 'but' & 'veille'
 
JHE said:
I can read Fine-Sounding Frog very well - and I don't know French.

C'est donc vraiment la langue universelle de la civilization, comme disent les Francai(se)s?




Case in point...
 
Here's the UK White Paper on the Intergovernmental Conference:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/CM7174_Reform_Treaty.pdf

Also they are set to remain in talks for around three months so I wouldn't worry too much about drafts coming out at this stage. Anyway, here's a summary of what is likely to be in the treaty (I assume this is what was agreed in June):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6232834.stm

(Don't worry it's in English for those of you "little-Englanders" who refuse to speak another lingo)
 
"According to EU officials, the launch of the "Intergovernmental conference" on the new treaty should be a smooth process of clearing away minor differences over technical details rather than serious political issues."

source : http://euobserver.com/9/24524


As I said UK parliament goes on holiday until October from Thursday.




I am trying to work out if this reminds me more of animal farm, what with the french appearing to be more equal, and me having two legs, or Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy with http://www.consilium.europa.eu acting as a vogon basement
 
Preamble and declarations now up in english

Preamble

Declarations


Not the protocols or main text. So guessing that debate during and after conference session will get no further than dispute over the accuracy of non official translations, run alongside people being told that the draft constitution; which is available in english and widely reported on the continent as being 90-98% of the "treaty", bears no relation to the debate.
 
According to eureferendum blog There is usually only a one day debate in Parliament ahead of the meeting, with debates generally happening after events. I do find the authors of that blog exasperating on many things, but they are generally right regarding EU procedures.

Seeing as the only agruement the pro intergrationalists seem to be coming up with is that opponents are pandering to the Daily Mail seems a pity that most of the reportage on this is being directed through said paper.
 
Open Europe have published a line by line comparison between the dropped constitution and proposed "reform treaty" available here though the EUropean University tells you pretty much the same thing with "The proposed new treaty and supplementary protocols take over almost all the innovations contained in the constitutional treaty. They only leave aside the symbolic changes which were introduced by the constitutional treaty – such as the title of the treaty or the symbols of the union – which are peculiarly linked to the constitutional character of the treaty signed in Rome on 29 October 2004."


Doesn't really tally with No 10's explanation as to why it will ignore a petition to hold referendum on the thing.
 
CyberRose said:
How long did it take you to read through all that?!?!?

I confess I haven't yet, got this weird and wonderful thang going on at present called Life :p which will I know from experience will calm down a bit:( in the mean time don't think it hurts to disseminate.



(N.B There are probably only 36 months of my 34 year existence in which life deserves a capital L). (Did put a call out for the comparison though, and more than fair play to Open Europe for coming up with the goods)
 
I'm not sure which is the more unreadable, the text of the reform treaty or Open Europe's explanation as to what they have done to compare it with the Constitution!

Have I understood this correctly: The text of the reform treaty does not contain the full text of the previous treaties, but only the amendments? And Open Europe have added those amendments into the previous treaties, along with the amendments the Constitution would have made, and come up with the result they are nearly the same? Erm is it just me that's thinking "no shit"?!

Shouldn't they have actually ONLY taken the amendments from the reform treaty and constitution and compared them, then we would have a more accurate comparison, but then Open Europe is as Eurosceptic as UKIP so it doesn't surprise me anything they come out with criticises the EU (well, unless they agree the Constitution was a great idea and are trying to big the treaty up!)
 
No, what the reform treaty will do is left hand side, what the constitution would have done is right hand side.

If the Pro EUropeans have come up with a detailed comparison feel free to post a link to it, or are they waiting for taxpayer, sorry, EU funding to be able to do that?
 
gosub said:
No, what the reform treaty will do is left hand side, what the constitution would have done is right hand side.

If the Pro EUropeans have come up with a detailed comparison feel free to post a link to it, or are they waiting for taxpayer, sorry, EU funding to be able to do that?
I know what they have done, but I don't know whether they are only comparing the differences between the amendments each would make to the existing treaties, or comparing the whole texts of the treaties as amended by each.

Eg. An imaginary treaty contains 10 articles. A proposed constitution will alter 2 articles and and reform treaty just 1 article.

Comparing just the amendments makes the difference 50%, but comparing the whole texts makes the difference just 10%

Basically, is Open Europe adding a shit load of text to their comparison that will obviously be the same, to add weight to their claims the treaty and constitution are the same?

Anyway, it makes no difference what people think about the reform treaty cos like it or not there won't be a referendum.
 
I think the EU constitution breached the British constitution and so shouldn't have been on the table in the first place. Blair would have needed a larger mandate than a parliamentary vote to get that through.
 
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